what do you think of this idea for our local RC's dressage event days?

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sophiebailey

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Evening HHO'ers :)

I'm in charge of the 2013 dressage season and as attendance has been so poor 2011/2012 (think 6 riders across 3 classes poor!!) i'm trying to make some major changes to encourage people to give dressage a go.

I'm sticking with having three classes per show and limiting entries to 10 entries per class (getting 30 entries is going to be tough let me tell you!!) with the idea that if the event gets more popular I could increase the class sizes.

So there'll be a Walk & Trot Test, a Prelim Test and then ...

drum roll please .....

a PICK A TEST CLASS!!

So you can choose from another walk and trot test, another prelim test, or have a go at a novice test. Highest % score across the board would win, 2nd highest % comes second etc etc, but judge would be instructed to mark objectively (meaning not to give fluffy marks to walk + trot entrants, and not to mark novice level riders too strictly) so that the marks would be more even and fair, and would represent how well + how accurately each horse + rider combination performs each movement as opposed to the difficulty of each movement if that makes sense.

So in example, in a walk and trot test if the next movement is a 20m circle and you do a 20m diamond with the wrong bend, you'll get a low mark (no fluffy well done for trying marks) and similarly if you're doing a novice test and your next movement is a 3 loop serpentine but your loops are uneven and you don't change diagonal, you'll also get a low mark so the marks will even out .... I hope this makes sense to you all because in my head it does lol!

My reason for this is that last season we had 1 person doing the novice class. So pick a test would open up the last class to a lot more people! So you could ride two tests in one day if you wanted to (do two walk and trots, do two prelims or get brave and do a prelim and have a bash at a novice!!)

So what do you think? Do you think this is a good idea and would you give it a go? Three tests to choose from, two chances to get a ribbon?? :D:D

My only reservation in doing this is that someone who's entered the Novice test could get annoyed if they're beaten by someone who's chosen a Walk and Trot test, but not a lot I can do about that really :( lol.

Answers on a postcard :)

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a dressage picture of me & bailey for good measure ;) :D
 
You get marked down for not changing diagonal on a serpentine? Yikes. I'd always thought you weren't supposed to but would generally sit on the half Os I guess.
Apart from that, pick a test seems a decent idea, some affiliated comps run them to allow people to ride a higher (usually adv med/advanced and up) level test than there is likely to be many combinations for/ run through a particular test.
 
You have all my sympathy! Our RC has exactly the same problem of only ever attracting the same few people to points shows etc, and yet our bigger shows get into the hundreds of entries.
Your idea sounds good to me, all you can do its try it and see what the reaction is. And really if someone rides a W&T test better than another rider does a novice test, then they deserve to win under your system.
Good luck!
 
loobylu said:
You get marked down for not changing diagonal on a serpentine? Yikes. I'd always thought you weren't supposed to but would generally sit on the half Os I guess.
Apart from that, pick a test seems a decent idea, some affiliated comps run them to allow people to ride a higher (usually adv med/advanced and up) level test than there is likely to be many combinations for/ run through a particular test.
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I have never ridden at novice level dressage so I may have made that up, but when I do serpentine's in my lessons my instructor shouts at me the second i'm over the centre line and on the wrong diagonal so I just assumed that was the done thing :o:o if it's not please ignore my ignorant ramblings!! thanks for ur feedback! xx
 
see if you can get a BD judge! they have correct training in judging a test! and will understand how a % class works

no-one should get annoyed by being beaten by some riding a lower test...that person rode better on the day!

another option would be a 'test rideing' class, where the test is ridden, then the judge will give verbal feedback and give a 10min 'lesson' on how to improve the test....the test is then re-ridden and both tests are added together and who ever gets the highest % wins!
 
Wort a try and it does give them all a chance to do 2 tests. I would not bother limiting entries just in case you do get more as you don't want to be turning entries away. you could also do like a show near me did one year and try things like having novelty prizes for best decorated hat at easter and they also let people ride in coloured johds and tops as long as they looked smart which attracted a lot of people who did not have show clothes but thought it made the shows sound more friendly and went to give it a go
 
lots of places do it for novice/elem unaffiliated, just run as a percentage class

fwiw I'd be right peed off if anyone marked me down for not changing diagonal on a serpentine I don't on purpose :p and that's rider marks :p and well just not right :p.

for interest the one thing I did that was very popular was to allow people to have a 5 min chat with the judge after a test for ideas/feedback and then the opportunity to have a go at the test again if they wanted.

lol TandD got there first ;)
 
PYO and using % for placing are common at the higher levels to allow show centres to justify running classes at this level, so no reason can't work at the lower levels. I agree with the others that it's best to get a BD judge as they will be able to use the correct scoring for each level and be used to this type of class. I have done a couple of PYO when the classes went from Medium level to GP!
 
Sounds a bit over-complicated to me and the judge should judge each level as they have been trained by BD regardless of how you tell them they should judge. I would amalgamate a Prelim/ Novice or Novice/ Elem but not all three. I would check that any judge you have is happy to judge that - we had one who wouldn't judge a pairs class. Also book your judges asap because they get really busy.

This is how we have turned around our dressage.

Are your competitions open to non RC Members? If not I suggest you open it up but it should be a higher fee than Members. This brings in more income for the club and potentially new members if they see benefits of joining. Have membership forms out on the day.

Run a league to people can earn points to a final prize or qualify for a champs - we do this for members only
Nice rosettes - maybe a token prize (we give a packet horse treats or 6 pack of polos etc. only £2 - £2.50 to the winner.
Try and put qualifiers in for local Unaff Champs if there are any - we have SE Unaff and Sunshine tour
Make sure it is a friendly atmosphere and well-organised on the day and people will come back
Get results up asap on website

And advertise, advertise, advertise! Use all free local websites e.g. Riding Diary and local mags e.g. Pegasus etc. Use Facebook and put schedules in all local stores.

Good Luck - we are just getting going for 2013 and it's hard work!! :)
 
I like the idea of a pick a test class, and the judge feedback system.

Also, could you run a league and perhaps run it to 6th place so 1st= 6 points, 2nd = 5 points etc. And then whoever has the most points at the end of the league wins vouchers for tack store, or something like that?
 
Think I'd be asking myself why you only get limited entries to these events? Do the dates clash with other dressage events which attract "your" potential entrants, are your members just not interested in dressage, how do you promote the events in the area?

Our local club has been trying a league system this winter, where entrants get a point for turning up and having a go and then 6 pts for a win, 5 for 2 nd etc. that's encouraging people to keep coming along and providing a great sense of competition, so might be worth thinking about.

Good luck and well done for taking this on. Without folks who are prepared to get involved in the organising of local events, most of us wouldn't have shows to go to throughout the year, so much appreciated.
 
Thanks for some great ideas guys :)

The event has always been open to non RC members and we've always had a points league for members.

This year, season champ from each class wins a lesson with a paralympic silver medallist born and bred in our home town, exciting prize :)

I'm going to make sure it's run on time and warm up area's are strictly policed etc.

I'm limited entries to 10 per class as in my past experience, judges will only judge up to 30 entries in one sitting, so i'm only needing to book one judge to keep costs down whilst i'm unsure if i'm going to break even or not. If the event is hugely popular and i know i'm going to get enough entries to cover the cost of two judges, then I shall open up all the classes to however many people want to enter and book two judges :) Until then, I'm being frugal :)
 
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Our RC dressage shows are popular but we struggle to get good numbers at Novice and Elementary. Our walk/trots and prelim classes get good numbers. Our shows run two arenas and we cap each arena at thirty tests.

Try to figure out the reason why. It could be your members are not interested in dressage but if you don't ask then you might put in a lot of effort without changing the numbers. Any issues with the venue - poor parking, arena surface dead etc..., your judges rep, what are the barriers to people coming along - cost of a class, lack of show gear etc? Have you asked your members?

Things competitors like - suitable times and quick results and getting their test sheets as soon as the class is finished.

I always try to get a kind and enthusiastic judge for W/T and restricted Prelim classes.

Why don't you run one as a dress down show - folks don't need to plait up or come in jackets as that encourages folks to have a go. Or have a dressage test training run so folks can come along and work with the judge on their test rather than getting marked?

Fun classes - pairs dressage worth a go, prix caprilli or even team dressage where friends do a class each and their scores are combined for a team score.

Also I would encourage your club to have a facebook page as we get a lot of other RC members finding out about our shows that way, rather than our website.
 
FlaxenPony05 said:
You should incorporate some Prix Caprilli tests...they're like dressage tests with jumping in!
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I'd love to do one of those again, always more fun than regular dressage!

Greylegs said:
Think I'd be asking myself why you only get limited entries to these events? Do the dates clash with other dressage events which attract "your" potential entrants, are your members just not interested in dressage, how do you promote the events in the area?

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Yes, could you ask your members what classes they would like?

I like the lesson prize for your shows - where are you? I want to enter!!

Our club has a pretty good turnout for dressage. As someone else said, they don't get many entries for above novice, and only a dozen perhaps at novice, while the intro and prelims can go on for hours! They added more classes to the prelim - restricted, for total novice riders who have never tried dressage before, and regular, for those more experienced riders on novice horses perhaps, or the ones that won't go up a level! They did this at intro and prelim, plus junior sections too, which also do ok.
 
I really like the idea of allowing you to chat to the judge afterwards and then re-doing your test! I would definitely go along for that!

As for changing diagonal on a serpentine.... I'm confused!! I've always changed diagonal and never been marked down (including at BD). Are you not meant to change diagonal??
 
As for ideas I had the delightful pleasure of running the RC competitions, both dressage and show jumping when I was at university.

When I took over they were doing OK, but turn out wasn't great. However, after a couple of shows I kept having to turn people down. Not sure what it was that made it this way but this is the format we run:

AM - Dressage (Prelim test and Novice test)
PM - Jumping (clear round to 3'0)

We were always fully booked for the dressage and the jumping very often went on until late!

We run it as a league with people accumulating points for specific classes as well as individuals overall. I managed to get sponsorship from local shops which meant there were some good prizes to be won at the end of the league (overall rider prize was equivalent to £500) which included a months supply of feed from Saracen with a free nutrition profile for the horse, free lessons with BHSI and with a local dressage rider, free rugs, vouchers, trophy and a number of other bits and bobs. All our rosettes were also free through sponsorship!

The winner of each class also got a voucher for a free entry into their next class (for dressage, as this was pre-booked and pre-paid) it meant to make the most of it they had to come again to the next show. In addition, the local shop also gave every person placed a 10% voucher to spend in store.

We couldn't always get BD judges in because of our locations, but when we did people preferred them.

As for the prices of the classes I made sure we were lower (by £1) than everyone else in the area. And finally, I did very big colourful posters to promote. It really did make them a great show. I'm sure you could do something similar (taking away the jumping and replacing for more tests, such as the get feedback from the judge idea proposed).

Good luck!
 
FlaxenPony05 said:
You should incorporate some Prix Caprilli tests...they're like dressage tests with jumping in!
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No No No No, we have this thinking at our RC, some people think every blooming thing should have a ruddy jump in it. OP stick to the dressage and don't give in to the must have jumps brigade :)
 
If you are continuing to have really low entries, the idea of the judge giving each person a short feedback session afterwards is brilliant as it will make full use of the time you are paying them for, and also help people develop/gain confidence so you might find more than one person doing the novice. Would also make it much more worthwhile, as TBH I think you get a relatively minimal amount out of going to dressage on a regular basis if all you get is short written feedback without the context of seeing how you perform against a pool of other competitors, so this would be a way to add value and keep your current entrants until you have built up enough of a pool to have a real competition.

Does the RC do dressage lessons/clinics for members (kind of assuming not if only 6 turning up for comps)? If not, rather than continue to run comps so regularly for same people to come same place each time, you could switch half your comps to clinic/training sessions (ideally with the same judge) so new people could get the confidence to have a go and current people could learn something new. If you are trying to attract a broader base then the idea posted above about not needing competition clothing is also good; an unofficial pony club I went to many many years ago used to just require black boots, light johds and a dark jacket or jumper so everyone was smart-ish and fit the pattern, but it wasn't so cost prohibitive. Could offer a best turned out prize too if you still wanted those who have the kit to make the effort.

Also, does your RC run separate jumping league etc? If so you could encourage more people to try dressage by doing a combined points league across both disciplines.
 
i don't know if someone else has said as i'm far too lazy to read all the replies but bare in mine that you will need to pick tests with the same amount of totals for the %s to be fair when added up
some tests are out of 200 some are out of 220 so it will work out slightly unfair if the prelims are marked out of 200 and the novice is out of 220 etc

hope you know what i mean :o
also you could really think about how you can make restrictions fair for people to enter and maybe think about having open and restricted ie restricted prelim12 - open prelim12 one for people who have never been placed and one open to all so it will suit people who won't go novice but are out of restricted prelims

points trophys seem to go down well too ;)
our local show center do a spring, summer and aut league with a trophy for the over all winners , it might be quiet the first few times but when word gets around you have lovely trophys or prizes you will get busier :) good luck
 
Run a monthly dressage for 3 months. Open to everyone and overall prize at end (also open to everyone). Same tests each time and aimed at the grass roots level. Anyone properly interested enough in dressage to do a Novice or Elementary will prob be with BD anyways.

It's the Intro and the prelim level tests that the majority of RC level riders are interested in, esp if you're aiming for the 'have a go' types. I would prob offer Novice tests but maybe offer it as a 'schooling' type test and charge less to encourage people to have a go at it.

The feedback after your test is a great idea and should be popular. Maybe give an extra 3min at the end of each test for the judge to chat to the rider?

Think about having 2 walk trot tests ( use an RDA test since there's only 2 BD Intros) and 2 prelim to choose from. Allow people to do 2 test if they want (any combo). Make them pay for whole lot at the beginning and make doing 2 test each month a little cheaper. And accept late entries if you've got withdrawals.

We have a very popular fundraiser run like this by an RDA locally. Always full and a waiting list.
 
grumblebee said:
I really like the idea of allowing you to chat to the judge afterwards and then re-doing your test! I would definitely go along for that!

As for changing diagonal on a serpentine.... I'm confused!! I've always changed diagonal and never been marked down (including at BD). Are you not meant to change diagonal??
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It is entirely up to you how you ride it, no marks given ;) I choose not to as for some reason it keeps mine straighter so produces a better mark as the serpentine is better.

I'm not sure the diff in marks is a problems angleish as surely a % is a %, I don't see how a different total would convey a different advantage/disadvantage?

Having seen the fuss over the concept of having to jump a small cross pole in the RC horse show class in my old club I don't think they would have taken to prix caprilli ;)
 
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