What does a well-muscled back look like?

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AshTay

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I'm trying to build up my boy's back muscles following treatment (he's had steroid injections and shockwave). I don't feel that we're making much progress though. He's currently worked four times a week (vet is happy with this as she believes that recovery days are important to allow the muscles to rebuild) doing a combination of lunging, lunging over poles, long lining and in hand walking over different terrain and up gentle hills. He's out in the day and in at night and had a haybar.

Does anyone have any photos of their horses backs that I can look at for comparison? Examples of muscle wastage and good musculature would be really helpful and much appreciated. Ideally TB/WB/TBx types.

I've tried taking photo's of my own horse's back but he's black with a clipped out bit on his back (for the shockwave) and so it's hard to really see in photos. There aren't any other horses on our yard that, in my opinion, are suitable points of reference. My other horse is an arab mare so a totally different shape.
 
Not the same horse (the well muscled back is of an eventer and the photo is from the Solution website) but you can really see the difference between the two photos.

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It will take time, I would persevere with the hill work, and also trot flatwork but only when fit, as it will be counterproductive to try to work an unfit horse.
 
Just wanted to say, top line can be a long time coming!! I've had my exracer 15 months now, and whilst his top line has improved a lot, it's still not where I want it. I've been told to 'feed him for it' - but fat and top line are not the same thing! (he is in good condition now other than the top line).

Mine had a totally prominent spine for months, and now isn't too bad, but could do with more muscle under the front panels of the saddle and in front of the wither... I just need to get the work more consistent!

So persevere!! And be prepared for it to take time.
 
Interesting thread - will watch this. My horse is now about 8 months into ridden work after SI and arthritis problems were treated. I am taking it very very slowly and it would be good to see what
we are aiming to get to. This week he did his first poles session and we are now cantering on the long side of the school a couple of three times in a session, plus hacking, hills etc.
Without a school its going to take me a long time so please send those pics in and keep me motivated.
 
khalswitz said:
I've been told to 'feed him for it' - but fat and top line are not the same thing! (he is in good condition now other than the top line).
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Totally agree that fat is not topline.

However to a certain extent 'feed him for it' is right - a correct feeding regime together with correct exercise will help develop topline.

Easier said than done with some TB's I appreciate! :o
 
cronkmooar said:
Totally agree that fat is not topline.

However to a certain extent 'feed him for it' is right - a correct feeding regime together with correct exercise will help develop topline.

Easier said than done with some TB's I appreciate! :o
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Yes, feed for the work, I agree - but I was told by several people that 'Top Line Cubes will sort him out, if you feed enough'... *shudder*. One lady even told me, very confidently, that 'fat will turn to muscle, you have to get them fat first and then work through it'.

Not my idea of building top line.
 
Hi I put some pictures on a thread of my boy who had no topline due to being out if work for a long time because of lameness and kissing spines. Take a look at
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ore-weight-gain-and-coat-shine-tips-!!!/page3
This has not been achieved through schooling, it has been through work in hand; long reining, leading, pole work etc. we don't have any hills either so have not been able to do hill work. The exercise and appropriate feeding has made the difference.
 
khalswitz said:
Yes, feed for the work, I agree - but I was told by several people that 'Top Line Cubes will sort him out, if you feed enough'... *shudder*. One lady even told me, very confidently, that 'fat will turn to muscle, you have to get them fat first and then work through it'.

Not my idea of building top line.
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Lordy!

No not my idea either
 
My TB had kissing spine surgery in July, the ligament desmotomy version and lost a lot of condition afterwards, everything went south basically and he looked awful. He'd never been brilliant prior to surgery because of the kissing spine but since about October he has come on hugely. I followed the initial programme for bringing him back to ridden work and then on the advice of the physio did a lot of lunging, with a draw rein contraption - not draw reins exactly but a system to get him to stretch and lower his head and lengthen along his back, not bring his neck in, plus various stretching exercises. One involves lifting a front leg, running your hand down his breastbone and then squeezing the muscle with the effect of getting him to arch his back, another is to lift a front leg, put your hand on the wither and push him away - again this engages the muscles in his rump. Exercises were daily, lunging started at a couple of minutes each side, gradually increasing to a maximum of 8-10 with some short canter work - this was over a period of 3+ months.

When riding I was advised to do a lot of transitions and to do short bursts of canter to get him to bring his back legs under himself. His physio came out yesterday and he has effectively been discharged (she's going to keep coming, but for general wellbeing rather than his back specifically). He's hunted 10 days this winter in hilly country and some deep going and he's been fine - the hill work has worked wonders on his muscle tone and his shape has changed beyond recognition - saddle fitter is out this week because of this.

Obviously this work has been specifically for his back, but I think it might help generally anyway - is it worth seeing if you can get a physio out to start you off? I've posted because after 2 years of worry I'm finally beginning to think he has a future, and if you'd seen him looking like a saggy broodmare in August, you'd never know it was the same horse. Sadly I haven't suitable photos for posting otherwise I would!
 
I've also had the physio out to see my boy and have been doing tummy tucks with him plus stretches, tail pulls, all with the aim of engaging tummy muscles & building up back muscles. I also use a Pilates band round his quarters which provides resistance when I walk or ride him (don't use it hacking or jumping). The correct food helps, but it's the exercise to get them working their muscles correctly that will build up their top line.

I've also had to get a new saddle - he's gone from narrow medium to medium wide.
 
Hi everyone
Thank you for all of the responses - some useful things for me to think about. Whilst I totally understand the difference between a fat back and a muscled back, I think I'm still struggling to really grasp how yu can tell the difference. And if a horse has prominent whithers - how can you really tell how well muscled the back is?

I managed to get some almost good pictures of my boy last night..... opinions would be good (he is very long backed in general)....

I can't get the pics to show!
Does this link work?
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/2362037644
 
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Different approach....

He's not stood straight and kept looking round at me when I was taking the first one so he looks wonky but he actually isn't.

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If you look at these anatomy diagrams, you can see that there are a lot of muscles over the back.

Deep muscles.
equine-lateral-deep-musculature-anatomy.png


Superficial muscles.
equine-lateral-superficial-musculature-anatomy.png


As some run down from the dorsal processes (withers) it doesn't really matter how long the DP's are, the back should look healthy and 'plump' (muscles, not fat ;)). So hollows either side of the withers, or where the saddle rests are a sign of muscle wastage.

If you look at the photo of your horse - taken from behind - you can see that he looks hollow either side of his withers and (trying not to be distracted by the clipped area) I think I can see exactly where the saddle sits, which indicates that area also needs building up.

You might need to look at your saddle. If it fits his back how it is now, there wont be room to build muscle.
 
Thanks Faracat! That's helpful!

His saddle has been "ok for now"'d by his chiro and saddle fitter who both know the full story. It's fitted with a prolite pad under it to allow some room and will be re-checked when ridden work increases; we're not at ridden stage yet - I'm allowed to sit on him to get him used to the idea that he's got a job to do again and he's lunged/long lined in it a couple of times a week - it's another 3 weeks until we even thnk about riding him and even then it will start at 10 minutes in walk - hoping I'm not too heavy - 9 stone 7 and 5foot8.
 
Faracat said:
Not the same horse (the well muscled back is of an eventer and the photo is from the Solution website) but you can really see the difference between the two photos.

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WGT%20fig.%2011.jpg
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I can certainly see that the first horse is very poor through his back.
The second horse - can't see as far up the whithers as the first photo (which isn't same horse anyway I think you said) but he still looks to fall away behind the shoulder -is that the 41b muscle from the anatomy pics? I was expecting to not be able to see the double ridge of the spine but you can in this photo although the slope of the back away from the spine is much less pronounced (which I think is what is meant by "full").
Trying to understand the key things to look/feel for as i think it's far more subtle than I first thought.
 
Interesting thread, sorry I can't help with photos/experience!

Busybusybusy said:
I've also had the physio out to see my boy and have been doing tummy tucks with him plus stretches, tail pulls, all with the aim of engaging tummy muscles & building up back muscles. I also use a Pilates band round his quarters which provides resistance when I walk or ride him (don't use it hacking or jumping). The correct food helps, but it's the exercise to get them working their muscles correctly that will build up their top line.

I've also had to get a new saddle - he's gone from narrow medium to medium wide.
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My horse is out of work and will be until spring but I want to make sure I can work towards getting her muscles working and in particular, strengthen her back as much as possible (as I think she has quite a long back for her build) but all I'll be able to do for the forseeable is in hand work - The pilates band you use is it just a general one and do you tie it to the side rings of the roller? I had been wondering if an elastic exercise type bandage would do the trick I hadn't thought of an human exercise type band!
 
Interesting that people use a pilates band, and others use chambon, pessoa, walking over raised poles, yet my instructor doesnt want me to use anything that forces my horse to pick up lis legs, or that persuades him to take a particular shape. She says she wants him to "choose" how much effort he "can" put in (he has SI problems). Has anyone else heard that?
 
starry23 said:
My horse is out of work and will be until spring but I want to make sure I can work towards getting her muscles working and in particular, strengthen her back as much as possible (as I think she has quite a long back for her build) but all I'll be able to do for the forseeable is in hand work - The pilates band you use is it just a general one and do you tie it to the side rings of the roller? I had been wondering if an elastic exercise type bandage would do the trick I hadn't thought of an human exercise type band!
Click to expand...

I have done all Paddy's work in hand since his op in June of last year. Started riding him in November but only managed 4 weeks in walk when it became clear that his saddle was causing him discomfort, so stopped until I could get him a new one, which was just before Christmas. The physio told me to use the Pilates band. It really makes him work, and 15 minutes with the band equals about 45 without. Now that I have started riding him again, the physio said to still use the band, apart from when I hack out and do any jumping (not that we are anywhere near that stage yet!). The only down side is that he's got very fit with all the walking!

Here's a picture of it fitted with a lunge roller;

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Phone won't let me reply after quote so this reply is in response to quote below. ..
I think that philosophy might work for some horses but if I only use a headcollar or bridle on mine, he'll mooch along all long and not really focus or prance along with head in the air. Instead, I use elasticated side reins from girth up between front legs and set as long as they'll go. He could still mooch or prance but he doesn't and is much more focused on me.
I have used a pessoa in the past but I don't think it was any more effective.

coffeeandabagel said:
Interesting that people use a pilates band, and others use chambon, pessoa, walking over raised poles, yet my instructor doesnt want me to use anything that forces my horse to pick up lis legs, or that persuades him to take a particular shape. She says she wants him to "choose" how much effort he "can" put in (he has SI problems). Has anyone else heard that?
Click to expand...
 
Might try this. Where did you get the band from?
Busybusybusy said:
I have done all Paddy's work in hand since his op in June of last year. Started riding him in November but only managed 4 weeks in walk when it became clear that his saddle was causing him discomfort, so stopped until I could get him a new one, which was just before Christmas. The physio told me to use the Pilates band. It really makes him work, and 15 minutes with the band equals about 45 without. Now that I have started riding him again, the physio said to still use the band, apart from when I hack out and do any jumping (not that we are anywhere near that stage yet!). The only down side is that he's got very fit with all the walking!

Here's a picture of it fitted with a lunge roller;

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[/URL]
Click to expand...
 
coffeeandabagel said:
Interesting that people use a pilates band, and others use chambon, pessoa, walking over raised poles, yet my instructor doesnt want me to use anything that forces my horse to pick up lis legs, or that persuades him to take a particular shape. She says she wants him to "choose" how much effort he "can" put in (he has SI problems). Has anyone else heard that?
Click to expand...

I think there is a fine line between encouraging the horse to use itself correctly by putting it in a gadget or using poles and leaving it to carry on going in an established way of avoiding using itself incorrectly due to pain, remembered pain or poor musculature following injury or just not working correctly. A horse may choose to continue carrying itself in it's preferred and established way forever if not given some guidance, if it has previously worked correctly it may choose to do so once it feels comfortable but most physio involves some help to build up the muscles in the preferred way.

I would opt to take advice from a physio rather than an instructor on rehab as they are qualified to advise and work on specific areas to improve the whole horse and how it functions.
 
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