what does the term 'Dealer' mean to you?

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shadowboy

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Was just having a discussion about dealers generally this evening on the yard and to me the term brings to mind negative images. I also appreciate there are good dealers- but the word 'dealer' itself conjours up words like bargepole, auction, lame and dodgy.

When you thing of the word 'dealer' what thoughts/words run through your mind.

This post is not to get at dealers in anyway, just curious really.
 
Someone who buys and sells horses for a living, buys them cheap and makes a profit,and has a high turnover. There are some very reputable dealers with very nice horses, but there are also the horror story ones. I would be wary going as could see myself getting screwed over.
 
This is a common misconception and there is no legal minimum for you to be classed as a commercial business and a "dealer". If you put a big sign over your stables saying "Horses bought and sold" or some such and advertise with your first advert in Horse and Hound as trade, then with your first sale you will be a dealer and subject to consumer law. If you are a mother of twelve (god forbid) and your first six darlings all grow out of their ponies at once such that you need to sell them on all at once you are unlikely to be classed as a dealer. It is a question of fact in each individual case.
 
All well and good ,but your examples will tend to find that the onus of proof falls on them ,to show they are not dealers.In my opinion selling more than 3 horses a year is" prima facia evidence "of being a dealer.
 
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All well and good ,but your examples will tend to find that the onus of proof falls on them ,to show they are not dealers.In my opinion selling more than 3 horses a year is" prima facia evidence "of being a dealer.

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That would make most breeders 'dealers' then, including me! And I'm not - by my definition - although I did deal (very unsuccessfully - I was too honest!
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) for a short while!

My definition of a horse dealer is someone who buys horses with the intention of selling them on for a profit. Someone selling a few outgrown kids' ponies is not a dealer, neither is someone who - say - gives up horses due to ill-health and sells their privately owned horses (even if there are 6 of them!)
 
yES . it does make breeders dealers,inthe same way that Ford are vehicle dealers.The problem is that if you are selling more than one or two horses,the onus of proof that you are not a dealer may be on you.Ask the VAT man!!
 
I'm not saying that the points you mention would not be taken into account when a court was deciding whether a particular animal was sold in the course of business, thus making the seller a "dealer" and therefore subject to the consumer laws, but none of them are conclusive or definitive on their own. A court does not say "ah, you sold 3 horses this year - that's it, you're a dealer". It suggests you could be, but if you have a valid and logical explanation as to why not, then the court will weigh it up with the rest of the evidence. You could be a bona fide dealer and happy to say so, but if you sell your child's first shetland, that particular sale could be by you selling as a private seller, just like any other mother/father and not as part of your business dealings, which could be quite seperate. It is a question of fact in each case and I stand by that.

Some of my other favourites: "Trespassers will be prosecuted" "If you live with someone for 2 (enter any number you like) years it's the same as being married" "If you have a horse on loan and the owner doesn't come to see it for a year, it belongs to you" All wrong, but firmly held beliefs by a surprising number of the general public.
 
I'm classed as a "Dealer".......

Do it for a living...No
High turnover...No
Lame horses/ponies..No
Cheap....Sometimes
Dodgy........Maybe! LOL!!
 
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yES . it does make breeders dealers,inthe same way that Ford are vehicle dealers.The problem is that if you are selling more than one or two horses,the onus of proof that you are not a dealer may be on you.Ask the VAT man!!

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Ford is a manufacturer! The companies who sell the cars to the end user are dealers. And the VAT man isn't that interested whether you manufacture or whether you deal - just in your turnover and whether you HAVE to pay VAT - or if you've registered for VAT - whether you're putting in your returns on time!
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Someone could correctly be classified as a dealer without having a turnover high enough for VAT registration to be required! Or someone could sell one horse in a year for a figure exceeding the VAT threshhold WTHOUT being a dealer - or being required to pay VAT. They're seperate things!
 
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All well and good ,but your examples will tend to find that the onus of proof falls on them ,to show they are not dealers.In my opinion selling more than 3 horses a year is" prima facia evidence "of being a dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would make most breeders 'dealers' then, including me! And I'm not - by my definition - although I did deal (very unsuccessfully - I was too honest!
grin.gif
) for a short while!

My definition of a horse dealer is someone who buys horses with the intention of selling them on for a profit. Someone selling a few outgrown kids' ponies is not a dealer, neither is someone who - say - gives up horses due to ill-health and sells their privately owned horses (even if there are 6 of them!)

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Agree with this....I had to sell on 3 horses in the space of a year....2 outgrown ones and one that was just not right for me.

If I were classed as a dealer then I would be a crap one, seeing as I only made any money on one of them.......and that went towards the next one.
smirk.gif
 
i'd class a dealer as someone who imports horses does some basic schooling hunting etc to get the best out of them and then sell them onto a good home but the question is would people class me as a dealer because ive bought 2 young 14.2 ponies at the end of the winter and am currently schooling them up to sell on to good homes or would they consider the fact that the person who owned them first left them in a field for over a year without any attention first?
 
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i'd class a dealer as someone who imports horses does some basic schooling hunting etc to get the best out of them and then sell them onto a good home but the question is would people class me as a dealer because ive bought 2 young 14.2 ponies at the end of the winter and am currently schooling them up to sell on to good homes or would they consider the fact that the person who owned them first left them in a field for over a year without any attention first?

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Pretty rosey picture of a dealer! Most dealers buy at sales - or privately - in this country. Many also sell at sales and some horses will be at half a dozen sales in as many weeks. And most aim to turn horses over rather quickly - a couple of weeks tops!

Dealers who school on, hunt, compete are 'high end' dealers - but VERY few actually care if it's a 'good home' or noty - as long as the buyer has the readies! And even 'reputable' high-end dealers OFTEN sell unsuitable horses to unsuitable buyers - they're in business to SELL!
 
Divasmum said:
I thought it was someone who sold 3+ horses a year.
Click to expand...

Correct. Absolutely Right!

The law (as does the Taxman and Vat) classes anyone selling 3 or more horses in a year as a dealer. And if you have also bought or bred horses in the same year, there is no hope...you are a dealer. Also often unknown, but if you work in a riding school or event/race yard and sell a horse, you can also fall under the 'dealer' title.

So all you folk whom work in the industry, beware when you sell a horse, as it is NOT classed as a private sale!
 
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