What does this mean on an ad?

N

NellRosk

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 May 2013
Messages
2,726
Location
West Yorks
Visit site
Just seen on an ad:

'All puppies will be sold Endorsed from breeding and a contract in which the new owners will sign to declare their understanding of this'

So this means the breeders don't want you to breed from the pup they're selling you? Can they actually put in a legal contract which means you cannot breed from it? What would be their reasons for this?

Ps I'm not buying a puppy/ setting up a puppy farm just curious!
 
to control the market, or am I a bad person for thinking that?

usually they keep the puppies papers so you cannot register any puppies born to them in the future. also you agree to have them speyed/castrated and often you will receive papers at this point.
 
Damn cheeky IMO, they are 'selling', not loaning, once sold the animal is no longer theirs to dictate what happens to it. Mind you it is possible to still breed from it you just wouldn't be able to register the pups.
 
twiggy2 said:
to control the market, or am I a bad person for thinking that?

usually they keep the puppies papers so you cannot register any puppies born to them in the future. also you agree to have them speyed/castrated and often you will receive papers at this point.
Click to expand...

That's awful! These ads stink tbh, I've seen a few saying 'parents are KC registered however pups are not as they are only for pet homes'. Is this so the puppy farmers can breed loads of litters a year?
 
The kennel club allowed puppies to have on their registration "progeny not eligible for registration" so no offspring can be registered.
Of course it doesn't stop unscrupulious breeding and is the reason many unregistered or " parents are registered but we don't want the puppies to go for breeding so we haven't registered the litter" adverts are seen. Used correctly it is a tool to prevent less than exceptional specimens being bred from but often it is done as a control measure. Last dog I bought had endorsments to be removed on passing required health tests for the breed but she was purchased as a show prospect not as a pet only.

Nothing wrong as I can see in the ad above - now when you see dogs advertised at stud with " no KC for pups as "fred" is endorsed but a pedigree supplied" you know something is dodgy.
 
Last edited:
Unless they're registered breeders, I think it's a real cheek.

It's like saying 'I can breed and make money from this, but I won't allow you to!'.

The same when people say 'Will only be sold to a 5*, forever home'. If they're that bothered, why aren't they keeping them? The whole thing seems very hypocritical to me.
 
Both my dogs have this on their pedigrees - which I have in my possession. I completely agree with it too. If I wanted to breed and register the progeny, I would have to ensure all health tests are completed with good results and then liaise with the breeder to get it lifted. The idea is to prevent indiscriminate breeding and ensure the progeny is of good quality for the good of the breed.

Am quite shocked by the attitudes of some saying that it's cheeky when it's for the good of the breed overall. Sure people can still breed and sell unregistered progeny but my opinion is that if buyers are fully vetted by responsible breeders it does help to prevent this.

Not convinced that somebody wanting to have a puppy farm/breed indiscriminately would jump through the hoops I did in order to be able to buy my dogs!
 
Both my boys were endorsed as puppies, and I knew they were when I bought them. I have kept both entire and had the endorsements lifted, all appropriate health checks done and breeder is pleased, that I was serious enough to go through all necessary checks to prove how good both mine were, shame there wasn't a similar scheme for foals :)
 
Same as above, new pup came with his papers and an endorsement that the breeder will happily lift if he has good health test results and does well in the show ring. No requirement for neutering (indeed she strongly recommended not to). It's for the continued development and good health of the breed, not for money making purposes.
 
When I bred a litter all my puppies were endorsed progeny not for registration and not for export. However in the contract which the new owners read and signed I explained that if relevant health checks were undertaken and passed (eyes unaffected and hip score under total of 15) then I would lift the endorsement. All puppy owners were aware of this and happy with the arrangement. When 1 dog was doing well in the show ring and had clear eyes and a hip scor of 8 then I lifted the endorsement and he sired a litters of puppies.
The endorsement oes not mean you cannot breed from your dog but if you did the puppies cannot be registered with the kennel club. IMHO a breeder endorsing the puppies shows they are concerned with the pups welfare. A few years ago flatcoats were being bought by what appeared to be families only to end up in the hands of a middle man and being exported to Japan.
 
My junior GSD is endorsed - breeder told us that if we wanted to breed from him at a later stage we could ask her to remove this, and if he was demonstrably suitable to sire pups, she'd do so.

I'm perfectly happy with this; I thought it was very responsible to be honest! And the thought of multiple duplicates of my duracell bunny GSD racing round the place are tiring at best.
 
SadKen said:
My junior GSD is endorsed - breeder told us that if we wanted to breed from him at a later stage we could ask her to remove this, and if he was demonstrably suitable to sire pups, she'd do so.

I'm perfectly happy with this; I thought it was very responsible to be honest! And the thought of multiple duplicates of my duracell bunny GSD racing round the place are tiring at best.
Click to expand...

Same goes for our Hungarian Vizsla, I do also it as a sign of a responsible breeder.
 
Our malamute came with Progeny Not For Registration and I can completely understand why a reputable breeder does this - they dont want someone breeding their dog with any old line and then attaching their name to it - so its a way for them to control who you breed the dog with. She told me when I bought him that if I ever did wish to breed him, to contact her and she would look into the bitch I wanted to use and do all the checks and let me know if she felt the dog was suitable and then she would have the limitation removed from his kennel club registration so that I could breed him.

Its a very responsible thing to do actually, and shows a breeder who actually cares about the lineage of the breed and making sure the correct dogs are used - after all its her reputation that is at stake. When you see full pedigree malamutes on sale on Gumtree for £250 I know they have been bred under the table. I had a guy show up at my door once asking if I would breed Korben with his bitch cause he fancied making some money - my mother almost lamped him and told him where to go. Thankfully Korben was neutered a long time ago as I had no intention of breeding him
 
It's a responsible thing to do as long as the breeder is willing to lift it. We bought a pup from a breeder who would have only let us breed if we paid her a vast amount of money - we don't want to breed anyway but we were quite surprised at her cheek. Indiscriminate breeding will happen whatever KC registers do and I think some breeders should consider being a bit easier about lifting their restriction - it might help to solve some of the inbreeding problems in many breeds.
 
Apercrumbie said:
Indiscriminate breeding will happen whatever KC registers do and I think some breeders should consider being a bit easier about lifting their restriction - it might help to solve some of the inbreeding problems in many breeds.
Click to expand...

The woman who bred my dog actually retired from breeding because she was so fed up with people buying dogs from her and then breeding them anyway without her permission and people referring back to her breeding line when selling on dogs - she couldn't do anything about it and some of the dogs her pups went on to be bred with she knew had issues either physically or temperament wise - she she quit rather than allow anymore of her dogs to be used as cash machines. Which was quite sad as she has some cracking dogs :(
 
Shutterbug said:
The woman who bred my dog actually retired from breeding because she was so fed up with people buying dogs from her and then breeding them anyway without her permission and people referring back to her breeding line when selling on dogs - she couldn't do anything about it and some of the dogs her pups went on to be bred with she knew had issues either physically or temperament wise - she she quit rather than allow anymore of her dogs to be used as cash machines. Which was quite sad as she has some cracking dogs :(
Click to expand...

I agree, there is no easy solution. I just really noticed the difference in attitudes when buying a dog a couple of years ago compared to 14 years ago for the previous one. The KC is every coming across as more exclusive, more snobby and I think they're shooting themselves in the foot. IMO one of the reasons we are seeing more designer cross breeds is that breeding well is limited to this elite club who are ultimately serving themselves and their own ideas of what constitutes a good example. I'm not talking about hip and eye scores - they are helpful when trying to breed healthy dogs - but pedigree breeding has caused so many problems for dogs and it's tragic to see.

Sorry, I know I seem to be having a go at dedicated breeders who do so much to maintain breed standards - I support these breeders by buying their dogs! I just feel that the current 'policy' isn't working and is alienating many people.
 
I think it's entirely justified that a breeder who has spent years trying to produce good quality pups would want to try and protect their reputation by trying to stop their pups being bred on indiscriminately. When I window-shop for puppies online it's one of the things I look for as a sign of a responsible breeder.
 
SpringArising said:
Unless they're registered breeders, I think it's a real cheek.

It's like saying 'I can breed and make money from this, but I won't allow you to!'.

…….. .
Click to expand...

I agree. How can ANY breeder forecast how a puppy which they've bred will turn out? The breeder who can look at an 8 week old pup, and predict its finished form, has never been bred! 8 week old pups are a totally unknown quantity.

I have never, and would never, buy a puppy with restrictions as to it's further usage, just as I wouldn't a car.

Alec.
 
For those disagreeing with endorsements you should see what the designer dog breeders are doing. They cant put an endorsement on the pedigree because funnily enough they don't have one, so to get around this they are neutering/spaying at a very early age to the detriment of the dog just to make sure no one else makes a few bob on the side.
 
Dobiegirl said:
For those disagreeing with endorsements you should see what the designer dog breeders are doing. They cant put an endorsement on the pedigree because funnily enough they don't have one, …….. .
Click to expand...

Correct, but how is a KC endorsement going to prevent the buyer of a puppy from 'using' it? There's no pedigree which can be issued to a designer bred dog, so the KC will be an irrelevance.

I'm with you and everyone else that these D/B puppies are the most frightful con, but 'Breeding Endorsements' won't stop those who buy a pedigree puppy, and for that specific purpose.

Ets, I'm not sure that there's any way of limiting the use of pedigree animals to create the accessories for which there seems to be an expanding market. I would also agree that it does the name of Breeders in general, no good at all.

Alec.
 
Last edited:
Alec Swan said:
Correct, but how is a KC endorsement going to prevent the buyer of a puppy from 'using' it? There's no pedigree which can be issued to a designer bred dog, so the KC will be an irrelevance.

I'm with you and everyone else that these D/B puppies are the most frightful con, but 'Breeding Endorsements' won't stop those who buy a pedigree puppy, and for that specific purpose.

Ets, I'm not sure that there's any way of limiting the use of pedigree animals to create the accessories for which there seems to be an expanding market. I would also agree that it does the name of Breeders in general, no good at all.

Alec.
Click to expand...

If someone buys a puppy with an endorsement on the pedigree and they ignore it and breed anyway they will not be able to KC register the resulting puppies, if they x their pedigree puppy with another breed its one way of getting around it, this is partly why Im so against designer puppies, there are no safeguards in place to limit the amount of litters the bitch can breed. Its exactly the same if they breed their bitch to the same breed with again no safeguards to protect the bitch.

I think its a very good lesson here for people who buy pedigree puppies without a pedigree but are not bothered as they dont intend to show or breed but just purely want one as a pet. By buying one of these puppies you are potentially condemning the bitch to a lifetime of breeding.
 
Alec Swan said:
I agree. How can ANY breeder forecast how a puppy which they've bred will turn out? The breeder who can look at an 8 week old pup, and predict its finished form, has never been bred! 8 week old pups are a totally unknown quantity.



Alec.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly why I sell puppies with endorsements! I have done this for years, the prospective purchaser is made fully aware that should they wish to consider breeding in the future, then as long as the dog has good health test results, and is a good example of the breed, both physically and temperamentally, I will happy remove the endorsement, and offer advice as to a suitable stud dog. No one has ever had a problem with this, and in fact only a handful have said that they might wish to breed. I know there is nothing stopping people from just breeding without KC reg, but hopefully by applying endorsements and vetting homes carefully in the main I can weed out this sort of person.

It is totally wrong to charge to remove endorsements, or charge more for pups without endorsements, just as imo it is wrong to charge more for a bitch pup than a dog. That is just implying that a bitch is more valuable because you can make money from them.
I do agree that the KC are alienating themselves, not just from pet owners, but also from responsible breeders who are leaving the Accredited Breeders Scheme in droves.
 
Kaylum said:
Are they as irresponsible themselves for not already having homes for these?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Buyers pull out, bitches have bigger litters than their pedigree line suggests, breeders breed to keep back a puppy for themselves.

As others say, endorsement is sensible. I'm amazed that people think it's cheeky!
 
The problem is a lack of understanding by the public.

The very same people who condem indiscriminate breeding for financial gain, designer dogs, puppy farming etc, are also quick to accuse decent breeders who put endorsements on their pups of selfishly controlling the market.

I am constantly trying to explain to people that whilst buying a registered pup doesn't guarantee health or quality, it goes a long way to stamping out the over breeding of bitches and poor quality litters produced only for money.
BUT, it only works if the buying public refuse to buy pet puppies with no papers.

Breeding endorsements are brilliant when understood, and lifted when suitable, but sadly, without understanding them most people see it as a scam.
I would just be happy to convince the public to NEVER buy without registration, even for a pet.

It is a huge mountain to climb to get people to understand. There is just not enough information.
I would love to see the kennel club finance a tv campaign to just get the basic information of the reasons behind the registration system out there.
I have spoken to good, careing people who have been conned with all sorts of nonsense about the huge cost of KC reg being avoided for pet puppies to keep the price sensible. They are appalled and shocked when I explain their pups mother is probably being bred and bred and bred, and that huge cost is less than £20 per pup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top