What else can i try?

[Arniebear]

Quick brief; my lad has been suffering with what looks like mud fever since beginning of april, so far i have tried every over the counter mud fever cream/ spray etc he's been swabbed by the vet results came back as strep infection he's had 3 types of antibiotics and 4 types of cream from the vet including their own home brew!!

Its still there its not getting worse but its not getting better he's been on the current cream (fucidin H) for 2 weeks surely i should be seeing an improvement by now? He's in at night to minimise he access to the mud even thou its not wet and his field barely has any mud in it more grass than mud. He's in full competition work and isnt bothered by it its just im sick to death of having to smother him in cream 2x a day he's miserably being in on his own and would rather be back out with his friends at night!

Will be phoning vet again tomorrow but i think even he is running out of ideas!

Is there any home brews/old school remedies worth a shot?

Heres a pic of it, its only on this 1 foot his remaining 3 white feet are all clear!

Any magic ideas??!

 

[rowan666]

maybe try just leaving it a week to let the skin breath and heal? could you move him to a dry field?

has vet run tests to see if there is any underlying reason for it not to have healed yet?

 

[WelshD]

Personally I am of a rather old fashioned view that if its moist keep it dry and if its dry keep it moist (probably absolutely groundless but it seems to work for me!) so I would try a powder of some sort on that, possibly SterZac if I could get hold of some

What was the cream recommended by your vet? My vet gives me a cream that is a mix of Aqueous cream, Baytril antibiotic and betnovate which is apparently one they use for mud fever may also work in your case if not already tried (I use it for sweet itch)

 

[iconique]

I agree with rowan as nothing will work if it gets muddy or wet all the time? Otherwise suggest neem oil? But our old fashioned vet used to swear by udder cream mixed with a tube of streptopen if it was bacterial?

 

[lamlyn2012]

Have you tried flamazine ointment?

 

[Cobbytype]

Have you tried flamazine ointment?

This. My horse had a potion from the vet consisting of Flamazine, mixed with a steroid and an anti-biotic (Synulox). I also used Eucerin 10% lotion on his legs, as the scar tissue from the sores had little stretch, so keeping his skin supple helped to stop the cracking (particularly behind his knees). It took me years to get topside of his problem, as everyone kept recommending aggressive treatments, which just dried his skin further and produced allergic reactions. Pig oil and sulphur blistered him, as did Sudocreme.

Every few weeks, a heap desert spoonful the vet's potion was mixed with a little ivermectin wormer (this was recommended by the vet) and applied to his legs to kill any mites that might have taken up residence. It also helped to keep the flies off his sore bits for a day or two.

What works for some doesn't work for others, so it's a bit trial and error.

If my boys nooks and crannies around his pasterns got a bit moist and smelly, I'd treat them with (human) thrush cream to stop any fungal infection setting in.

Hope you find something that does the trick -tbh your horse's leg doesn't look too bad - some of the bald area (the grey bits) looks like scar tissue, rather than active sore, so it looks as though you're getting there slowly.

 

[Arniebear]

Thanks for the replies!!

We live in the fens so our ground is amazing at draining his field has no standing water in it at all so no mud! Theres a dusty mud patch by the water thats it the rest has good grass coverage the only time its a little damp is when he's turned out at 6am due to the dew on the grass. He's turned out atm with fucidin h cream which is then topped in sudocreme so the sudocreme is rubbed off first although when i get him back in at 4 its still covered in sudo!!

If i let it dry out it cracks and becomes sore enough for him to argue about me touching it so atm its constantly smothered in fucidin h and sudo!

The vets so far have given me their own home brew heel ointment, and home brew green ointment neither worked so after the swabs were taken we tried a lactating cow cream called synulox that didnt work along side antibs since then we have been using fucidin h cream which was originally along side more antibs but they ran out a week ago! Its looked like the pic for the last week and a half so no better but no worse!

Havent tried flamazine, do i have to get that from the vet?? If so will suggest it to him tomorrow!!

Thanks again guys!!

 

[Arniebear]

This. My horse had a potion from the vet consisting of Flamazine, mixed with a steroid and an anti-biotic (Synulox). I also used Eucerin 10% lotion on his legs, as the scar tissue from the sores had little stretch, so keeping his skin supple helped to stop the cracking (particularly behind his knees). It took me years to get topside of his problem, as everyone kept recommending aggressive treatments, which just dried his skin further and produced allergic reactions. Pig oil and sulphur blistered him, as did Sudocreme.

Every few weeks, a heap desert spoonful the vet's potion was mixed with a little ivermectin wormer (this was recommended by the vet) and applied to his legs to kill any mites that might have taken up residence. It also helped to keep the flies off his sore bits for a day or two.

What works for some doesn't work for others, so it's a bit trial and error.

If my boys nooks and crannies around his pasterns got a bit moist and smelly, I'd treat them with (human) thrush cream to stop any fungal infection setting in.

Hope you find something that does the trick -tbh your horse's leg doesn't look too bad - some of the bald area (the grey bits) looks like scar tissue, rather than active sore, so it looks as though you're getting there slowly.

Most of it is scar tissue now, i know it doesnt look hurrendous its just been going on for so long i want it sorted more for his sake than mine cant be nice for him, me smothering it in something twice a day and him having to be in the yard alone every night!! Will deffo suggest flamazine tomorrow!!

 

[Regandal]

I second Neem oil. Anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and an emollient. Stops the skin cracking. Shame about the smell.

 

[Cobbytype]

Alas - Flamazine is prescription only, so you can't buy it over the counter. It's got silver in it, which has antibiotic properties - it's used on humans for burns etc. I used to buy biggish pots of it (£50 with the steroid and antibiotic added), but you can buy smaller tubes of it.

The Eucerin cream (it's a lotion with 10% urea) came about by accident. My horse was very ill in 2010 and lost bladder control for a time. I was petrified that the constant stream of pee on his back legs would make his scabs even worse, but they improved. I figured that the only thing it could be was the urea in the urine and googled something like 'urea and dermatitis'. Lo and behold, urea is used to treat human skin conditions such as eczema and psoriasis, so I bought a bottle of the 10% lotion (you can get it off the net for about £9 - £10, or £14 from Boots). It really helped prevent his skin from cracking. I used to put a generous squirt on my hands, then smooth his legs down with my hands - my boy got a bit cheesed off with all the faffing, but the simple sweeps of my hands on his legs didn't bother him. I didn't put the Eucerin during the day as he was pink skinned and it might have caused sun burn in the summer. It is unperfumed (and doesn't smell of pee), so you might find it better than Sudocreme, which has quite a high perfume content.

Perhaps your horse hasn't got 'mud fever'. If he's a draft/cob type, it's more likely to be a VERY mild form of Chronic Progressive Lymphoedema (don't google it, as it'll scare the living daylights out of you - but be assured that in its mild form it can be controlled and doesn't necessarily worsen with age). It's estimated that up to 80% of draft horses have the condition and many 'gypsy vanners/cobs' have milder forms of it too, as they have draft horse in their breeding. It's likely that your horse will have some swelling/puffiness to his legs and/or pasterns if it is CPL. My horse had CPL and he had 'puffy ankles', but it didn't restrict his movement.

I hope you find a regime that works for your horse.

Just to add - I'm in Lincolnshire, but not the Fens, but perhaps you use the same veterinary practice, in which case one or two of the vets will be familiar with the Flamazine 'potion'.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Are you sure its mud fever it could be a photosensitivity as you mention you have no wet or mud !

 

[Arniebear]

Alas - Flamazine is prescription only, so you can't buy it over the counter. It's got silver in it, which has antibiotic properties - it's used on humans for burns etc. I used to buy biggish pots of it (£50 with the steroid and antibiotic added), but you can buy smaller tubes of it.

The Eucerin cream (it's a lotion with 10% urea) came about by accident. My horse was very ill in 2010 and lost bladder control for a time. I was petrified that the constant stream of pee on his back legs would make his scabs even worse, but they improved. I figured that the only thing it could be was the urea in the urine and googled something like 'urea and dermatitis'. Lo and behold, urea is used to treat human skin conditions such as eczema and psoriasis, so I bought a bottle of the 10% lotion (you can get it off the net for about £9 - £10, or £14 from Boots). It really helped prevent his skin from cracking. I used to put a generous squirt on my hands, then smooth his legs down with my hands - my boy got a bit cheesed off with all the faffing, but the simple sweeps of my hands on his legs didn't bother him. I didn't put the Eucerin during the day as he was pink skinned and it might have caused sun burn in the summer. It is unperfumed (and doesn't smell of pee), so you might find it better than Sudocreme, which has quite a high perfume content.

Perhaps your horse hasn't got 'mud fever'. If he's a draft/cob type, it's more likely to be a VERY mild form of Chronic Progressive Lymphoedema (don't google it, as it'll scare the living daylights out of you - but be assured that in its mild form it can be controlled and doesn't necessarily worsen with age). It's estimated that up to 80% of draft horses have the condition and many 'gypsy vanners/cobs' have milder forms of it too, as they have draft horse in their breeding. It's likely that your horse will have some swelling/puffiness to his legs and/or pasterns if it is CPL. My horse had CPL and he had 'puffy ankles', but it didn't restrict his movement.

I hope you find a regime that works for your horse.

Just to add - I'm in Lincolnshire, but not the Fens, but perhaps you use the same veterinary practice, in which case one or two of the vets will be familiar with the Flamazine 'potion'.

Thanks he's a competition warmblood no draught or cob in him at all!! I am a bit confused as to why he is suffering with this nothing else on our yard is and we have 4 welsh thick feathered cobs! It came about as soon as i turned him out 24/7 never had anything all winter when he was stood im thick mud most of the day!! Typical!! I use rossdales in newmarket so will give them a ring and have yet another chat about it!!

Are you sure its mud fever it could be a photosensitivity as you mention you have no wet or mud !

I did think this but usually photosensitivity affects white limbs(?!) and all 3 of his remaining feet are white and are all clear!! Also we have no buttercups or anything remotely like that around, our fields are either a bit dusty if lacking in grass or full of grass like the one he's currently in!! The mind does wander thou!

 

[dotty1]

Mine had a similar problem last year, tried antibiotics for ages, they worked but it came back as soon as they stopped. Vet insisted on scrubbing scabs off which made her very sore as it was over quite an area, whole pastern, front and back was totally bald and bleeding.I tried everything suggested to me and in the end I used flamazine and then kept it bandaged over gamgee, changing daily. Didn't wash it at all and it gradually dried up and the hair started to regrow.Once the sores were better used pig oil. I am not sure if keeping the sun off it helped, also it used to get splashed when she weed

 

[supsup]

Different angle: Are you feeding something like a balancer or vit&min supplement to make sure you're supplying sufficient micronutrients? Zinc levels in particular are important for skin health. When I switched to a higher-spec supplement, the one thing I noticed was that within days, some scratches around the fetlocks (from stepping through sheep netting) finally healed up after 2-3 weeks of not wanting to heal. I paid attention because I was using (or rather, couldn't use) hoof boots at the time. May have been coincidence, but I think it's always a good idea to make sure the horse is fully supplied nutritionally as a solid basis for healing.

As for topical treatments, I've been very pleased with Filtabac used on my old mare's white legs. She got mudfever-like scabs on the top/outside of her legs (likely photosensitivity). I just lathered on every couple of days. Scabs eventually just came off, and it has the added bonus of being a sunscreen (if there is that component). Different situation though, since there was never a proper mudfever diagnosis.

 

[lamlyn2012]

Can you try leaving off the sudocrem. If it's a strep infection then it's bacterial and anything oily is counterproductive. The oil traps the bacteria and usually causes it to spread. I note you put this on top of another cream so that may be why it hasn't spread but it may be stopping it healing. Flamazine is excellent but you would have to get it from the vet. There are anti bacterial gels available over the counter which may help and Aloe Vera gel is very good and kind to skin.

 

[Arniebear]

Mine had a similar problem last year, tried antibiotics for ages, they worked but it came back as soon as they stopped. Vet insisted on scrubbing scabs off which made her very sore as it was over quite an area, whole pastern, front and back was totally bald and bleeding.I tried everything suggested to me and in the end I used flamazine and then kept it bandaged over gamgee, changing daily. Didn't wash it at all and it gradually dried up and the hair started to regrow.Once the sores were better used pig oil. I am not sure if keeping the sun off it helped, also it used to get splashed when she weed

he doesnt have any scabs as such anymore just some flaky skin on the left of the image, the bit on the right is just red/pink no scabs or flakyness!

Different angle: Are you feeding something like a balancer or vit&min supplement to make sure you're supplying sufficient micronutrients? Zinc levels in particular are important for skin health. When I switched to a higher-spec supplement, the one thing I noticed was that within days, some scratches around the fetlocks (from stepping through sheep netting) finally healed up after 2-3 weeks of not wanting to heal. I paid attention because I was using (or rather, couldn't use) hoof boots at the time. May have been coincidence, but I think it's always a good idea to make sure the horse is fully supplied nutritionally as a solid basis for healing.

As for topical treatments, I've been very pleased with Filtabac used on my old mare's white legs. She got mudfever-like scabs on the top/outside of her legs (likely photosensitivity). I just lathered on every couple of days. Scabs eventually just came off, and it has the added bonus of being a sunscreen (if there is that component). Different situation though, since there was never a proper mudfever diagnosis.

He's fed on alpha a and dodson and horrell staypower cubes, been on this feed all winter, he does get MSM, table salt and propell plus as supplements will take a look at the zinc contents, it started after i turned him out 24/7 his feed was dropped slightly as he went out due to the influx in grass otherwsie its the same food he's been on since october!

Can you try leaving off the sudocrem. If it's a strep infection then it's bacterial and anything oily is counterproductive. The oil traps the bacteria and usually causes it to spread. I note you put this on top of another cream so that may be why it hasn't spread but it may be stopping it healing. Flamazine is excellent but you would have to get it from the vet. There are anti bacterial gels available over the counter which may help and Aloe Vera gel is very good and kind to skin.

didnt realise that! thank you! ive only been putting sudo on top to prevent the other cream being wiped off by the grass during the day! spoke to my vet this morning have managed to sway him off of a skin biopsy and onto a tub of flamazine cream, the skin biopsy would put him out of action for 2-3 weeks apprently :S

plan tonight is smother in flamazine cream, cover in cling film, then bandage overnight and see what it looks like tomorrow am, would he be ok to be turned out with flamazine cream smothered on it? or does the cream come off easily??

thanks again everyone!!

 

[Scarlett]

Neem.

Don't wet the legs, just slap it on dry and rub it in then leave it a day or two. Never seen anything clear up mud fever etc like Neem!

I'd also look at adding a no iron/high copper and zinc balancer like Forage Plus or Equivita. There is a definite link between high iron/low copper and mud fever/rain scald/sweet itch etc.

 

[Cobbytype]

he doesnt have any scabs as such anymore just some flaky skin on the left of the image, the bit on the right is just red/pink no scabs or flakyness!



He's fed on alpha a and dodson and horrell staypower cubes, been on this feed all winter, he does get MSM, table salt and propell plus as supplements will take a look at the zinc contents, it started after i turned him out 24/7 his feed was dropped slightly as he went out due to the influx in grass otherwsie its the same food he's been on since october!



didnt realise that! thank you! ive only been putting sudo on top to prevent the other cream being wiped off by the grass during the day! spoke to my vet this morning have managed to sway him off of a skin biopsy and onto a tub of flamazine cream, the skin biopsy would put him out of action for 2-3 weeks apprently :S

plan tonight is smother in flamazine cream, cover in cling film, then bandage overnight and see what it looks like tomorrow am, would he be ok to be turned out with flamazine cream smothered on it? or does the cream come off easily??

thanks again everyone!!

The Flamazine is a little too expensive to smother on - I used to apply dabs of it to the sores only, but even then I could get through a pot in 2 weeks or so when his legs were bad. Personally I wouldn't cling film and bandage, but if the vet has recommended that, it's not for me to argue the toss.

The Flamazine isn't too gloopy, so you won't need to wash it off. I used to use tepid water with a generous handful of salt to wash my boy's legs, as cold water hosing made him very itchy. I only washed when there were muddy patches that wouldn't brush off.

Why a biopsy and not just a simple skin scrape to start with?

 

[MagicMelon]

Buy a bottle of Equisenntials. I've been using it on mine who had mud fever for ages that I couldnt get rid of and all clear since using it, apparently its very good for it (but the makers aren't allowed to say that for whatever reason)!

 

[lamlyn2012]

If I remember rightly vet told me to apply flamazine sparingly. Don't think I would cover with cling film either. Bacteria thrives in warm, moist environments. We had a bad case of mud fever once and then horse got an abcess which we treated by tubbing in salt water. This also killed the mud fever. If you try this use one teaspoon salt to one pint warm water. Anything stronger will destroy healing cells.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

You've got nothing to lose by cutting the alfalfa from his diet. It makes one of mine get terrible skin and the back of the pastern/heel bulb area seems to be the first area that gets photosensitive on it.

 

[Arniebear]

The Flamazine is a little too expensive to smother on - I used to apply dabs of it to the sores only, but even then I could get through a pot in 2 weeks or so when his legs were bad. Personally I wouldn't cling film and bandage, but if the vet has recommended that, it's not for me to argue the toss.

The Flamazine isn't too gloopy, so you won't need to wash it off. I used to use tepid water with a generous handful of salt to wash my boy's legs, as cold water hosing made him very itchy. I only washed when there were muddy patches that wouldn't brush off.

Why a biopsy and not just a simple skin scrape to start with?

He's already had a skin scrape that came back as streptoccous bugs and a few others, from there we had synolux cream and antibs but that made it worse so then we moved onto fucidin h cream and antibs this improved it until the pic i orginally posted, it hasnt improved from there for at least 8-10 days. My vet was as usual very basic on application so i was putting ideas together re the bandaging! i wont tonight i'll clean it up (i just use warm water) dry it properly then add the flamazine cream and see what happens over night i think.

Buy a bottle of Equisenntials. I've been using it on mine who had mud fever for ages that I couldnt get rid of and all clear since using it, apparently its very good for it (but the makers aren't allowed to say that for whatever reason)!

i have to admit im loathed to spend more money on over the counter stuff as so far nothing has worked, will give the flamazine a bash and if that fails will rethink!

If I remember rightly vet told me to apply flamazine sparingly. Don't think I would cover with cling film either. Bacteria thrives in warm, moist environments. We had a bad case of mud fever once and then horse got an abcess which we treated by tubbing in salt water. This also killed the mud fever. If you try this use one teaspoon salt to one pint warm water. Anything stronger will destroy healing cells.

there is so much conflicting advice, some say smother it and keep it moist others dont! tbh i dont think id manage to get the bandage to stay on, he loves to undo things!!! i will add it sparingly and see how it goes..... fingers crossed it fixes the issue!!

Neem.

Don't wet the legs, just slap it on dry and rub it in then leave it a day or two. Never seen anything clear up mud fever etc like Neem!

I'd also look at adding a no iron/high copper and zinc balancer like Forage Plus or Equivita. There is a definite link between high iron/low copper and mud fever/rain scald/sweet itch etc.

 

[Arniebear]

You've got nothing to lose by cutting the alfalfa from his diet. It makes one of mine get terrible skin and the back of the pastern/heel bulb area seems to be the first area that gets photosensitive on it.

very interesting! thank you! would you recommend anything to replace it with??

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Straw chaff with no molasses or timothy chaff with no molasses. My poor, hard done by chap gets the straw version (although he does get other things in his feed - oats, speedi beet and micronised linseed which is good for skin).

 

[Slightlyconfused]

What about aroma heel? Friends horse had puffy scabby leg, spent over a grand at the vets but four tubs of aroma heel sorted it.

 

[Arniebear]

Straw chaff with no molasses or timothy chaff with no molasses. My poor, hard done by chap gets the straw version (although he does get other things in his feed - oats, speedi beet and micronised linseed which is good for skin).

thanks!!!

What about aroma heel? Friends horse had puffy scabby leg, spent over a grand at the vets but four tubs of aroma heel sorted it.

havent tried that yet, will give the flamazine a go as already picked it up from the vets if that fails i'll try again!!!

 

[dotty1]

Please don't put cling film on it, I have seen a horrible injury from cling film, it can slip and stretched bits can be like cheese wire round the leg. I used a clean piece of gamgee for quite a few days, it soon became impregnated with flamazine, which you don't need to put on thickly.
Cling film will make it warm and sweaty too, it needs to be kept dry

 

[Annagain]

You've got nothing to lose by cutting the alfalfa from his diet. It makes one of mine get terrible skin and the back of the pastern/heel bulb area seems to be the first area that gets photosensitive on it.

I'd also recommend cutting out the sugar. Mine has a had a mud fever like rash for about 5 years starts in autmn and goes through to spring when it's at its height, then clears up in summer. It's only on back legs and only higher up on the cannon bones and around hocks. We had all sorts of theories (even thought his tail was rubbing him at one point!) and none of the treatments worked but last autumn he was a bit fat so we didn't start feeding him when we normally would. No rash.

I read up and thought it could be Alfalfa so bought and fed readigrass - no reaction. Introduced cool mix, slight reaction - this has a small amount of alfalfa in it so thought it was that. Added mollassed sugar beet - legs went mad! Switched sugar beet to fast fibre and things improved. Changed the cool mix to a sugar free version and rash went again. Reintroduced Alfa A molasses free and he was fine so def not alfalfa. Was great all winter, as soon as he went onto spring grass, legs flared up again. Injured his hock and he's on box / small paddock rest and he's fine again.

I'd cut out all feed for 2 weeks then reintroduce things gradually - allow about 2 weeks between each one so you're clear on which one is causing it (if it is of course). If it's not a food reaction I'd consider feeding echinachea to boost his immune system. A friend's horse had a low lying infection in his sheath that wouldn't clear and as soon as she fed echinacea it went. Don't do this unless you've ruled out the allergies though as it could make them worse if his immune system is more efficient.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Quick brief; my lad has been suffering with what looks like mud fever since beginning of april, so far i have tried every over the counter mud fever cream/ spray etc he's been swabbed by the vet results came back as strep infection he's had 3 types of antibiotics and 4 types of cream from the vet including their own home brew!!

Its still there its not getting worse but its not getting better he's been on the current cream (fucidin H) for 2 weeks surely i should be seeing an improvement by now? He's in at night to minimise he access to the mud even thou its not wet and his field barely has any mud in it more grass than mud. He's in full competition work and isnt bothered by it its just im sick to death of having to smother him in cream 2x a day he's miserably being in on his own and would rather be back out with his friends at night!

Will be phoning vet again tomorrow but i think even he is running out of ideas!

Is there any home brews/old school remedies worth a shot?

Heres a pic of it, its only on this 1 foot his remaining 3 white feet are all clear!

Any magic ideas??!

dermasol I swear by it or keratex powder http://www.keratex.com/products/keratex+mud+shield+powder+


http://www.vetmedsdirect.co.uk/dermisol-cream-100g/

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'd also recommend cutting out the sugar.

Reintroduced Alfa A molasses free and he was fine.

Yes, do cut the sugar it's much better for their hooves too.

They are all individuals, for mine it was definitely the alfalfa as it was Hi Fi Molasses free that he couldn't eat. It's certainly true that it's well worth considering diet as a potential cause.