what human foods is horse meat in then?

[PonyIAmNotFood]

Following on from the price of horse meat thread, where someone said there's a rumour Hollands use it in their pies, what human foods is horse meat in and do they have to tell you? This isn't meant to start a row btw, just interested.

 

[sheep]

I cannot say with absolute certainty but as far as I am aware there are strict rules on labelling food products intended for human consumption. Therefore any product containing horse meat would have to be labelled as such.

Eating horses is such a taboo in the UK that I believe there would be a massive public outcry if such practices were found to be taking place in UK factories. I googled on the subject and there was an incident regarding salami manufactured in Europe that contained horsemeat in 2003 that was sold in the UK, but nothing since.

So, I imagine that in the UK, the majority of retailers would not knowingly sell products containing horse. I could be wrong, but as a vegetarian it won't affect me.

 

[Foxhunter49]

There are some ethnic butchers that do sell horse meat but generally as said, it is taboo.
During the war it was commonly found in butchers.

It would be easy to sell horse meat nowadays as most people wouldn't know the difference between lamb, beef or horse when served up in a plastic pack from Tesco's.

I have eaten horse when on the continent, can't say I disliked it either, a lot sweeter than beef and a different grain to it.

I am not against horses going for meat as long as it is humanely destroyed.

My dogs were all fed on horse meat which I collected from the hunt. I knew the horse and I also knew he had a quick death so it bothers me not.

 

[Blitzen]

As sheep says, I may be wrong, but I'm sure it will have to be clearly labelled, ie "Horse and gravy pie : warning, may contain traces of horse". The label would scream it at you, because its so uncommon for us to eat horses in this country, they would need to make certain we knew what we were buying.
Dog food, however, will invariably have pony chunks in it, along with bits of rat, other dogs, unidentified roadkill and removed appendicies/tonsils/ rooted from hospital waste, oh, and oodles of sawdust. Just don't have Winalot [other dog foods are available!] for your tea and I'm sure you'll be safe!

 

[Dancing Queen]

An interesting thread OP!

Will follow this one!

My dog is on Laughing Dog and fresh meat i (try to) cook for the tea x

 

[Blitzen]

Yes Dancing Queen, its almost, but not quite, as interesting as your claim to being a scientist but your dismissal of evolution on the 'science vs tradition' thread. *rolls eyes to high HEAVEN* (lol)
Do enlighten us, we are dying to hear what school of science you belong to (oh, and psychology is not a science, mmm'kay?)

 

[Fii]

Dog food, however, will invariably have pony chunks in it, along with bits of rat, other dogs, unidentified roadkill and removed appendicies/tonsils/ rooted from hospital waste, oh, and oodles of sawdust. Just don't have Winalot [other dog foods are available!] for your tea and I'm sure you'll be safe!

Really???
I understand dog food has horse in, but where do rat, dogs, road kill and hospital waste come into it????

 

[Blitzen]

It was just a bit of a joke, that its full of rubbish really... I don't actually think there is roadkill and appendicies in there, at least I hope not. Just plenty of floor sweepings from the slaughter house!

 

[cymbeline]

A lot of donkey meat goes into Italian salami. Also horsemeat (regional recipes vary).

Horse meat has (as far as I know) never had any specific name in europe & is usually just referred to as 'beef' or 'horse beef'.



There's a specific code printed on meat tickets which details the country of origin & probably lots else as well. Unfortunately, precooked products aren't so visible.

http://www.chefsguidetoscotchbeef.org/butcher/labelling.html

 

[sheep]

Well, when I lived in Switzerland things were often labelled 'Pferdefleisch' and helpfully had a picture of a horse on the front

 

[Chavhorse]

I live in Holland and in my local supermarket I can find Paarden worst and Gerookt Paarden Vlees (Smoked Horse meat) openly nestling amongst the cooked meats.

Some butchers sell Paarden Vlees (horse meat).

I have got used to checking labels for the give away "Paarden" on the ingredients label.

I have no problem with people eating horse meat if they choose to I just choose not to. Easy way to avoid the problem is to only choose to buy ready prepared foods with a UK origin.

Horses are an accepted part of the food chain over here (one of the main reasons why our vets will never prescribe bute only alternatives that will not affect the horse meat) and you have to actively fill in the opt out section of your passport if you want to avoid your horse going into the food chain.

The only thing that has shocked me is a UK friend of mine who wanted to have her horse pts for medical reasons and claim on the insurance for the payout for "death" had to pay the insurance company the meat value for her horse so she could pts and have him cremated (she received the value of the horse minus his meat value), the alternative was the company would collect the horse, have him slaughtered and he would enter the food chain she would then have received his full insured value as a pay out. She was told by her vet she was being overly sentimental, it kept the premiums down and why did she think there were very few veteran horses in Holland! Bit of an eye opener for a couple of Brits was that one!

When I moved Vardi to the UK I asked my new insurance company whether they had the same policy and the poor lady I spoke to was totally horrified and must have thought I was a total weirdo.

Its a bit different here on the continent

 

[sheep]

I live in Holland and in my local supermarket I can find Paarden worst and Gerookt Paarden Vlees (Smoked Horse meat) openly nestling amongst the cooked meats.

Some butchers sell Paarden Vlees (horse meat).

I have got used to checking labels for the give away "Paarden" on the ingredients label.

I have no problem with people eating horse meat if they choose to I just choose not to. Easy way to avoid the problem is to only choose to buy ready prepared foods with a UK origin.

Horses are an accepted part of the food chain over here (one of the main reasons why our vets will never prescribe bute only alternatives that will not affect the horse meat) and you have to actively fill in the opt out section of your passport if you want to avoid your horse going into the food chain.

The only thing that has shocked me is a UK friend of mine who wanted to have her horse pts for medical reasons and claim on the insurance for the payout for "death" had to pay the insurance company the meat value for her horse so she could pts and have him cremated (she received the value of the horse minus his meat value), the alternative was the company would collect the horse, have him slaughtered and he would enter the food chain she would then have received his full insured value as a pay out. She was told by her vet she was being overly sentimental, it kept the premiums down and why did she think there were very few veteran horses in Holland!

When I moved Vardi to the UK I asked my new insurance company whether they had the same policy and the poor lady I spoke to was totally horrified and must have thought I was a total weirdo.

Its a bit different here on the continent

Oh dear- makes me wonder what will become of the nice old mare I rode a few weeks ago in a lesson! Still, as you say, attitudes are totally different. I don't have to look out for the paardenvlees because I'm a veggie. I did insist though that my friend, when he wanted to buy some horsemeat in Switzerland, wasn't allowed to bring it into my apartment. Would've happily cooked a steak for him, but for some reason, no horsemeat!

I wonder if the different attitude is because we don't have a specific word for it, eg beef, pork, or we don't have a specific word because we don't eat it. Hmm. <-- probably all nonsense.

 

[perfect11s]

never mind horse meat I want to know what Chav tastes like????, they are feed on a diet of pizza,mcdonalds, kebabs and gregs pies,so possibly a very fatty meat .... chill peeps only joking.....

 

[Chavhorse]

Oh dear- makes me wonder what will become of the nice old mare I rode a few weeks ago in a lesson! Still, as you say, attitudes are totally different. I don't have to look out for the paardenvlees because I'm a veggie. I did insist though that my friend, when he wanted to buy some horsemeat in Switzerland, wasn't allowed to bring it into my apartment. Would've happily cooked a steak for him, but for some reason, no horsemeat!

I wonder if the different attitude is because we don't have a specific word for it, eg beef, pork, or we don't have a specific word because we don't eat it. Hmm. <-- probably all nonsense.

Best not to think about it too much Sheep! I remember a wonderful conversation with my vet when I was telling him about my 19 year old horse in Cyprus who was still going strong and he was stunned as he was so old and still working. Have you ever looked on Marktplatts? on there you see page after page of horses between 16 and 20 up for bids of nothing and most of these are horses who have been performing at high levels in Dressage or Jumping but at late teens they are considered past it, you get to recognize the meat handlers making bids. Amazing really as my good friend in the UK is still eventing her 21 year old.

And yes I think the catch all "Vlees" with no definition of whether it is sheep, cow, pig or horse is probably why it is different over here. All I can say is if you are buying a "Dutch Pie" the ingredients will in all probability say "Vlees" so just avoid it buy British at least you have a vague idea of what is in it

 

[rockysmum]

As sheep says, I may be wrong, but I'm sure it will have to be clearly labelled, ie "Horse and gravy pie : warning, may contain traces of horse". The label would scream it at you, because its so uncommon for us to eat horses in this country, they would need to make certain we knew what we were buying.
Dog food, however, will invariably have pony chunks in it, along with bits of rat, other dogs, unidentified roadkill and removed appendicies/tonsils/ rooted from hospital waste, oh, and oodles of sawdust. Just don't have Winalot [other dog foods are available!] for your tea and I'm sure you'll be safe!

Actually I think you are wrong. I always remember the BSA crisis. I remember them banning spinal and brain tissue from dog food first.

As for the horse meat, I remember years and years ago a butcher, in a town about 10 miles from us, being in court for multiply offences of using horse meat in sausages etc without informing customers. There was a big outcry, he ended up with stiff penalties and ended up shutting down.

I'm veggie so it has never worried me.

 

[sheep]

Best not to think about it too much Sheep! I remember a wonderful conversation with my vet when I was telling him about my 19 year old horse in Cyprus who was still going strong and he was stunned as he was so old and still working. Have you ever looked on Marktplatts? on there you see page after page of horses between 16 and 20 up for bids of nothing and most of these are horses who have been performing at high levels in Dressage or Jumping but at late teens they are considered past it, you get to recognize the meat handlers making bids. Amazing really as my good friend in the UK is still eventing her 21 year old.

And yes I think the catch all "Vlees" with no definition of whether it is sheep, cow, pig or horse is probably why it is different over here. All I can say is if you are buying a "Dutch Pie" the ingredients will in all probability say "Vlees" so just avoid it buy British at least you have a vague idea of what is in it

Haven't looked on it, I will avoid the temptation to do so because it'll probably make me want to go on some kind of ill-planned rescue mission. I have seen some remarkably high level horses aged 16+ for sale for pennies on other websites though, but I am in no position to buy so that's quite fortunate.. actually, I'm leaving NL in a couple of weeks so that would only add to my problems (I don't think easyJet will carry a horse..!).

 

[Chavhorse]

Haven't looked on it, I will avoid the temptation to do so because it'll probably make me want to go on some kind of ill-planned rescue mission. I have seen some remarkably high level horses aged 16+ for sale for pennies on other websites though, but I am in no position to buy so that's quite fortunate.. actually, I'm leaving NL in a couple of weeks so that would only add to my problems (I don't think easyJet will carry a horse..!).

Is it helpful or unhelpful if I say that I transported Vardi from Holland to Dover for £275 inc VAT )

 

[sheep]

Is it helpful or unhelpful if I say that I transported Vardi from Holland to Dover for £275 inc VAT )

I can just imagine my mum's face if I showed up at the house with an elderly dressage horse.. she was horrified enough the time I brought a rabbit home, a horse might just tip her over the edge.

 

[classicalfan]

We have a lot of Dutch clients so I shall be looking carefully at the contents of the gifts they always bring with them in future! However, I think syrup waffles may be safe.

Here in France everything seems to be very clearly labelled. You can even chose which race of cow you want to eat.

I asked one neighbour what he does with all his donkeys and apparently they go to Italy for sausages. Anyone worry about eating donkey?

 

[sheep]

We have a lot of Dutch clients so I shall be looking carefully at the contents of the gifts they always bring with them in future! However, I think syrup waffles may be safe.

This really made me laugh.

About the donkey meat: never even thought of that. I wonder what becomes of them, if it is marketed similarly to horse meat, or if there is a special niche market for donkey meat? Hmm.

 

[Orangehorse]

I have always treated "continental sausages" and any salami with suspicion, and never bought any.

I think I ate horsement in France, and it was OK. It was only because I didn't really know what I was ordering and this steak arrived and it wasn't beef or lamb, so I guessed horsemeat. I still ate it though.

Shame about the older horses going for slaughter just because they get to a certain age.

 

[applecart14]

I'm not against horse meat eating either, so long as its kept and killed humanely. I would be most interested to see what it tasted like. At the end of the day its no different to any other animal whether it be pig, goat, lamb, or cow.

What appalled me was watching a documentary a few years ago about some woman who went to Iceland or somewhere similar and they farmed ponies for meat. But the way they met their end was barbaric. Because they were wild they had trouble catching them, and they would lassoo them, get the end around a stump in the coral and basically strangle and beat them to death. Very sad.

I always check salami for anything other than pig, I hear that italian salami can have a lot of horse meat in it. i would not eat this if I knew for certain it contained horse meat as its extremely likely the horses would have been subject to the horrors of long horse transportation which is totally dreadful to my eyes.

 

[sheep]

I suppose that as long as they are slaughtered humanely in good conditions, then perhaps older horses ending their days like this is not the worst fate they could have.

As far as I know, it would've been more common in the UK to send horses to the knacker when they were no longer rideable. A lot of my horsy books were from the 1970s and at the end of the book, it would often say something of the lines of, when the horse's useful strength is gone, then send him to be put down. I could be totally wrong though so am happy to be corrected.

 

[BBP]

What appalled me was watching a documentary a few years ago about some woman who went to Iceland or somewhere similar and they farmed ponies for meat. But the way they met their end was barbaric. Because they were wild they had trouble catching them, and they would lassoo them, get the end around a stump in the coral and basically strangle and beat them to death. Very sad.

I think that was somewhere in Siberia with Alexandra Tolstoy on the BBC. You could tell the ponies had a great life and were very important to the tribe, but yes, their death was utterly brutal and horrific. I remember them making horse hoof jelly...not really fancied jelly since!

 

[Chavhorse]

We have a lot of Dutch clients so I shall be looking carefully at the contents of the gifts they always bring with them in future! However, I think syrup waffles may be safe.

Apart from the Sugar Rush Syrup Waffles will be fine ;-))

I have to admit I normally take the Vegetarian option when I eat out or with friends.

I think the main reason the older horses are sold for slaughter is because everything over here over about 10 seems to have arthritis, they are broken young and worked hard all their lives, I think in the UK we tend to take things slower, it is sad though to see the mass of "with pain in my heart I have to sell my horse who has competed at x level and won £££££'s" I suppose land is rare, stabling expensive and for anyone who has an older competition horse who is at the end of their competitive life then they have to get rid of it to get the new one to carry on competing.....not saying it is right or I agree with it but then people really do seem to think of thier horses as more of a commodity here (wonder whether that is to do more with the fact that horses as part of the food chain is common place?) rather than a pet. When I decided to send Vardi the the UK my decision was treated with general shock and "why would you bother" whereas in the UK the reaction was more "no more than he deserves".

Sheep good point about the "old days" in the UK indeed horses tended to reach the end of their working life and were taken to the Knacker man harsh but i do wonder if for some of the old souls it would be a kinder end.....but that is for another thread.

 

[classicalfan]

This really made me laugh.

About the donkey meat: never even thought of that. I wonder what becomes of them, if it is marketed similarly to horse meat, or if there is a special niche market for donkey meat? Hmm.

Sausages, apparently!

 

[TBB]

When I was in school we were encouraged to have french and german pen-pals to improve our language skills. My friend was 'lucky' as she got a french one whose family bred horses on a big stud farm. She went to stay with them during the summer holidays and when she came back she told us that they didn't ride or have any more contact with the horses than we do with cattle as they were bred for meat. She'd been looking forward to a nice riding holiday but it was not to be, she said that they found our attitude to horses as strange as we found theirs.

 

[abitodd]

Dog food, however, will invariably have pony chunks in it, along with bits of rat, other dogs, unidentified roadkill and removed appendicies/tonsils/ rooted from hospital waste, oh, and oodles of sawdust. Just don't have Winalot [other dog foods are available!] for your tea and I'm sure you'll be safe!

You jest not,I'm afraid!
Hydrolysed animal protien found in many US brands of dog and cat food is road kill, veterinary waste etc. Its the veterinary waste which includes flea collars and drugs that is causing concern. For instance,the drugs used to euthanase the animal are still present after hydrolysation.
I was told the above by a friend who has studied the animal feed industry,so yes its hearsay,but hydrolysed animal protien can be avoided. Just check the ingredients label and don't buy if you are concerned.
Perhaps manufacturers will then tell us exactly what is in our cats dinner!

 

[OldNag]

We go to Holland a fair bit, and it wasn't until I scrutinised the contents of some of the deli products we'd been eating, I realised some of them contained horsemeat. Just hadn't occurred to me that they might. I now do read the labels more carefully!

I know it's totally illogical, hypocritical etc and it should be no different from beef, pork etc, but I prefer not to eat horsemeat. I'll even eat venison and rabbit without problem, but can't quite bring myself to eat horse.

 

[little_critter]

Sorry... this is in poor taste:
Do foods containing horse meat need to be labelled "May contain nuts"?

Sorry - it just popped into my head and had to share.