What is a "Good" canter for SJ?

[lisab]

Can someone tell me the definition of a "good canter" please?

BS coaches always make me do a slow canter and "sit and wait" is the mantra. (I call this the rocking horse canter and this is my most comfortable SJ canter).

Also, "closer to the fence is always better", is what most of them have told me and they are fairly obsessed with being on the "right" stride.

BE coaches (I've only been to a couple) are far less obsessed with being on the "right" stride and are far more concerned with having the right canter. They also wanted me on a much bigger, more forward canter. I don't like this bigger, more forward canter because it makes the stride longer and then if you arrive wrong, you're really really wrong whereas with the rocking horse canter, it's a lot smaller and slower and you seem to have more time to adjust (or fiddle or fire in my case!)

So, oh wise ones - what is this mythical "good canter" all about?

ps - I went to a very expensive BE clinic titled "Seeing a Stride" which consisted of pole work and cross poles and the trainer spending the day telling us that seeing a stride doesn't matter as long as you have a good canter. However, she failed to tell us how to achieve this good canter!

 

[DanaHart]

ps - I went to a very expensive BE clinic titled "Seeing a Stride" which consisting of pole work and cross poles and the trainer spending the day telling us that seeing a stride doesn't matter as long as you have a good canter. However, she failed to tell us how to achieve this good canter!

My RI also says that if you have a good canter you should meet the fence on a good stride every time........

I will be watching this thread with interest

 

[MandyMoo]

Can someone tell me the definition of a "good canter" please?

BS coaches always make me do a slow canter and "sit and wait" is the mantra. (I call this the rocking horse canter and this is my most comfortable SJ canter).

Also, "closer to the fence is always better", is what most of them have told me and they are fairly obsessed with being on the "right" stride.

BE coaches (I've only been to a couple) are far less obsessed with being on the "right" stride and are far more concerned with having the right canter. They also wanted me on a much bigger, more forward canter. I don't like this bigger, more forward canter because it makes the stride longer and then if you arrive wrong, you're really really wrong whereas with the rocking horse canter, it's a lot smaller and slower and you seem to have more time to adjust (or fiddle or fire in my case!)

So, oh wise ones - what is this mythical "good canter" all about?

ps - I went to a very expensive BE clinic titled "Seeing a Stride" which consisting of pole work and cross poles and the trainer spending the day telling us that seeing a stride doesn't matter as long as you have a good canter. However, she failed to tell us how to achieve this good canter!

I wouldn't necessarily say your BS instructors ''slow canter and sit and wait'' is a good definition....certainly sit up and wait on the approach to the fence...but I wouldn't fancy sitting and waiting on a slow canter......it needs to be powerful from behind, positive and forwards, but supported on the hocks and not on the forehand. If it is too slow, as you say, you are more likely to fire as the canter doesn't have enough ''oomph'' to get over a fence so as a rider you'll feel firing is needed.
And I also don't agree fully with your BE coach definition of ''forwards and bigger''...although yes it does want to be forwards and bigger....but not so big and forwards that it goes out the forehand - it all needs to be contained, because then you are able to make minor adjustments quickly when needed on approaches to fences.

It is a fine line between a slow canter with no oomph that feels controlled, but really isn't adjustable atall...and the other end of the spectrum of having a canter with enough oomph but is far too out the front end and on the forehand it isn't adjustable either. The key is to have the power and the forwardness, but make sure it is from the back end, and contained properly.

Saying this, I am still in the process of acquiring a ''good canter'' on one of my horses...as he is naturally downhill and not easy to get him to engage through his hocks in the canter...but hopefully it will come in time, and then the jumps will improve.


ETA: I don't really class myself as a 'wise one' as you put it I have only showjumped for about 5 or 6 years and I am only 20...so not the most experienced...but this is my view on the ''good canter'' topic

 

[lisab]

Thanks, MandyMoo.

So you mean that I need to create energy from the back with my legs and contain it at the front with my hands and seat - yes?

 

[MandyMoo]

Thanks, MandyMoo.

So you mean that I need to create energy from the back with my legs and contain it at the front with my hands and seat - yes?

I would say yes, you need enough power from behind to get the canter going forwards and make sure he hocks are really engaged. keep your reins short and not washing lines, sit up and use your seat to contain the canter and keep your leg 'to' your horse so they don't drop behind the leg. I wouldn't necessarily say ''contain it with your hands'' as that will lead you to tense through your hands and the horse will become rigid through the neck and jaw...make sure you keep the canter forward with the leg and keep the horse infront of your leg..but sit up and use your seat and contact to contain it (but keep soft through your elbows). Within the canter, practise bringing it riiight back so slow that they're almost going to break into trot but really keep your leg against them and keep the hocks engaged so they keep cantering and keep their hind legs engaged..just for a few strides...then push forwards and really open the canter up and repeat - it's great for getting them quick and sharp off your leg and improving balance and power in the canter. Leg yielding and other lateral work is also good for engaging the horse properly, and lots of transitions of halt to canter and canter to halt are also good for engaging the hind quarters.
Remember you always feel faster than you are actually going....maybe video yourself (or ask someone to video you cantering) and really try and get a good forward but together canter and re watch it back. It really helps, as after a lesson where I've had a ''good canter'' my instructor told me..I've felt like I've been galloping, but when I watch the video back it is just a nice canter. It is just that the power was there so it feels more powerful than it is to start with whilst you get used to the 'feel' for the right canter.

To be honest, it takes time to develop a good canter...I have been working on Socks's for nearly 2 months now...and its getting better but it will be a wee while longer for him than other horses as he isn't built for a good uphill canter naturally. ho hum..lots of flatwork needed it would seem!

 

[longdog]

Many many moons ago, I was fortunate enough to go to a couple of Pat Burgess clinics. She was passionate about a "good" canter.
By this she meant a medium stride - working on SJ distances, she said that if you can train your horse to take a 24' stride, it would make distances in the ring easier to ride.
She had a little saying - RIBS, with love from Pat!
Rythym (sp)
Impulsion
Balance
Speed
If you thought about this you were on the way to a good balanced canter & should meet your fences well.

HTH

 

[siennamum]

It's a good medium canter in terms of impulsion, but more uphill. Most people aim for a working type canter, but that isn't powerful or engaged enough IMO - You have to always be able to hold and holding into the bottom of a fence is a zillion times better than launching from 5 yards out.
If you leave the horse to get into the bottom of the fence because 'the fence belongs to the horse' it is just running & then it has to climb out.

I think you should do endless polework with youngsters, firstly to teach them to make the best shape, then to correct any natural deficiences then to educate them to consistently get to the fence at the right spot. The canter has to be a certain size to ensure you are consistent with what the course builder as built to so it's no good either flying around or having no canter, you will have to constantly fiddle then. finally I would always jump with a placing pole at every opportunity. Good habits become so through repetition.

 

[siennamum]

Many many moons ago, I was fortunate enough to go to a couple of Pat Burgess clinics. She was passionate about a "good" canter.
By this she meant a medium stride - working on SJ distances, she said that if you can train your horse to take a 24' stride, it would make distances in the ring easier to ride.
She had a little saying - RIBS, with love from Pat!
Rythym (sp)
Impulsion
Balance
Speed
If you thought about this you were on the way to a good balanced canter & should meet your fences well.

HTH

This is a much better explanation of what we do. the stride length is critical.

 

[MandyMoo]

Many many moons ago, I was fortunate enough to go to a couple of Pat Burgess clinics. She was passionate about a "good" canter.
By this she meant a medium stride - working on SJ distances, she said that if you can train your horse to take a 24' stride, it would make distances in the ring easier to ride.
She had a little saying - RIBS, with love from Pat!
Rythym (sp)
Impulsion
Balance
Speed
If you thought about this you were on the way to a good balanced canter & should meet your fences well.

HTH

very good description! I forgot to say this in my original message :rolletes: i also did this with my instructor with one of my horses. set poles on related distances on set strides and practised taking correct striding patterns in canter until we got the correct ''feel'' for a good canter and correct canter.

 

[LEC]

First of all do a slow collected canter round the arena, then a big fast forwards canter and then somewhere in the middle. This middle canter is normally a good sjing canter!

 

[lisab]

Thanks very much everyone - all good stuff to study and practise.

It was all very easy in the beginning - he was 6 and already jumping NC, I'd had 15 years off horses and just trusted him to jump whatever I put him at.

Then I had lots and lots of lessons and it all got very technical and complicated and I (and he) got totally confused and that's where we are 10 years later!

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and when I believed he'd jump the moon - he did.

The more I learned, the more complicated it got and the more I interfered until we get to today where I am having to ask "What an earth is a good canter?"

Bless me!

Thanks again. We're off to Onley tomorrow. I shall try out your tips and hope to come home with ribbons.

 

[Wheels]

Many many moons ago, I was fortunate enough to go to a couple of Pat Burgess clinics. She was passionate about a "good" canter.
By this she meant a medium stride - working on SJ distances, she said that if you can train your horse to take a 24' stride, it would make distances in the ring easier to ride.

HTH

I think you maybe mean a 12' stride, this is what BSJA distances are set at. A one stride double would be 24' which would be 12 for the stride and 6' each for landing and take off

 

[longdog]

I think you maybe mean a 12' stride, this is what BSJA distances are set at. A one stride double would be 24' which would be 12 for the stride and 6' each for landing and take off

Oops, quite right, I did - told you it was a loooong time ago!

 

[lisab]

Well, we got ribbons but default ribbons really as clear rounds were fairly absent today. Got 3rd in the 95cm and 3rd in the 1m but had a pole in each. Somehow, I managed to do the more forward canter (which was fab, much more power and energy) but held too much as well and got too close so had a pole in each class.

Mum's reaction was v funny as not told her I'd been on here and she's used to rocking horse canter and thought I'd gone nuts!

 

[Thundry]

I am a BS coach, and i would tell you it is all about the canter. You can only sit and wait if you have a canter to sit on. The important bit is the energy in the canter and that you maintain the same length of stride on the way to the fence. It might be a while since you posted and so you may have cracked it now? That 'good' canter is found if you can move up to a 'big' canter and then when you think it is big be bold and go a bit more. Then you will create some lift and energy in your canter. The next step shorten it and compact your energy into a 12' canter stride. You need to do this way before the fence, like the opposite side of the arena. Then look through your fence to the landing side, counting the canter rhythm so that you don't alter the canter and get distracted by looking for 'the stride'. Works all the time for my guys. In Simple terms get a powerful canter, stay on the rhythm of the canter, so your stride length will stay the same, look to the other side of the fence and ride to that point. In an arena, which is normally a smaller area the actual length of your canter will be a bit smaller then in the ring. To test out if you are keeping the canter put a pole 7 yards before a fence, this will keep you coming into the fence and test if you have enough 'canter'.