What is it with rescue?

[Moobli]

There is a beautiful working line GSD bitch in a rescue down South. The rescue centre (non breed specific) know her background and breeding and yet won't answer my question as to whether they will contact the breeder to let them know the dog is there and give them the option of help with rehoming. This is the second working line bitch to be in this situation where I have offered to help with fostering and/or rehoming both times (the first time I knew who the breeder was and he desperately tried to get his bitch back but the rescue were offensive to him and would not return her - even when he offered to buy her back), but they won't rehome to Scotland.

You would think that with all the rescue centres overflowing with rescue dogs that the ones who come in with background and breeder known should be returned to the breeder (if suitable - I know there are lots of crap breeders out there) to make space for a dog of heritage unknown?

It baffles me.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Rescue policies often baffle me, this one just seems ridiculous!

 

[catxx]

That's a tricky one isn't it. I would imagine a lot of rescues have had their fingers burnt with the crap breeders and have to be understandably wary.

What if the breeder goes through the full adoption procedures with the rescue? It would be all rescue policy to not just give a dog to someone who says they're the breeder - what if they do that and something awful happens such as welfare issues with the breeder, or the breeder wants that dog to breed from and ends up in a puppy farmer situation? Not saying all breeders are like that of course, but the papers would LOVE juicy story like that to drag a rescue through the mud.

Surely if the breeder entered into adoption procedures with the rescue they could work that way? And the breeder respects a rescue's decision if they have to spay/neuter or have other veterinary costs? If the breeder goes to a rescue all guns blazing to get "their dog back", a rescue will be understandably defensive and wary.

Unfortunately, once the dog has been sold from breeder to owner, and the owner has decided to relinquish ownership to a rescue, the breeder has zero legal grounds to claim the dog back sadly.

 

[GirlFriday]

Partly policies. Also, I suspect, partly that the polices are very often implemented by people who are volunteers. And, frankly, most people who are able to give up their time are unlikely to be particularly 'average' (as in 'average man in the street'). It will often be those unable to function in paid employment, the wealthy (as in don't need paid employment) or OAPs answering the phones and making initial decisions on adoptions in many cases. Some obviously do an amazing job very well but others get a little power crazed IMO and try too hard to get 'perfect' homes for a few dogs - which usually mean homes with people very similar to the volunteers (anyone with an actual job - even with sensible plans for the animal - is pretty much out for a start!)

 

[CorvusCorax]

Because breeder bashing is trendy and some people think it's kinder for a dog to languish in rescue or go to a completely unsuitable home and get bounced back repeatedly than it is for it to return to a breeder, or go somewhere where it might get involved in a job or sport or you know, what it was bred to do.
Because working breeds just LOVE low energy households and lying on the sofa all day...

However the upshot is there's too many dogs of all types being bred.
High drive working breeds don't make good pets in the main, despite what people think their capabilities are. Breeders need to be a bit more discerning about what they breed and who they sell to. If in doubt, leave it out.

 

[deb_l222]

Partly policies. Also, I suspect, partly that the polices are very often implemented by people who are volunteers. And, frankly, most people who are able to give up their time are unlikely to be particularly 'average' (as in 'average man in the street'). It will often be those unable to function in paid employment, the wealthy (as in don't need paid employment) or OAPs answering the phones and making initial decisions on adoptions in many cases. Some obviously do an amazing job very well but others get a little power crazed IMO and try too hard to get 'perfect' homes for a few dogs - which usually mean homes with people very similar to the volunteers (anyone with an actual job - even with sensible plans for the animal - is pretty much out for a start!)

What a disgraceful post!! I'm guessing you have no idea of the diversity of people who are involved in dog rescues and are just making this up as you go along. I really hope so.

Back to the original post, speaking as a person who can function perfectly well in paid employment, if you look at it from the rescue's point of view, they have been handed a dog to them, for whatever reason - it could have even come via strays kennels. Why would they then hand said dog back to the breeder, who couldn't place the dog in the right home in the first place? Presumably the owners weren't given the option of returning this dog to the breeder, hence why it's finished up in rescue?

If the breeder was going to guarantee the dog a permanent home, then it might be a different prospect. They can then go through the re-homing process, like anyone else.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Similar to rspca and their equine pick ups. If they are found to be a registered 'breed' they will not inform the breed society whatsoever, but will re-home and often re-passport with a bog std passport.
This has come up a few times in recent years, depiste chip showing exactly who/what the pony is. Fuming just doesn't cover it

 

[GirlFriday]

What a disgraceful post!! I'm guessing you have no idea of the diversity of people who are involved in dog rescues and are just making this up as you go along. I really hope so.

No, I looked into rehoming from rescues about a year ago and, one breed rescue and two 'basically importing European dogs for a profit' rescue aside I found them incredibly closed minded about rehoming to someone with a job. So, relatively recent and extensive (I spoke to a few places as needed a child-friendly dog and those are hard to come by) experience actually.

There were plenty of people horrified at the idea of a home with a (part-time and regularly from-home) working professional. Similarly they expected a 'secure fenced garden' so a shared court yard garden (with designated grassed dog area etc) was not considered appropriate. Therefore at least one rescue dog will have been needlessly PTS. And I rehomed privately.

Numerous stories on here about very capable and experienced homes with e.g. people not being permitted to rehome if they have any entire animals on the premesis etc. Which might be where the breeder has fallen foul of the 'computer says no' regulations...

ETA: I did contact the RSPCA about the dog with cropped ears and they were helpful and informative. I just wouldn't bother trying to rehome anything from them myself until I retire though!

 

[Widgeon]

Partly policies. Also, I suspect, partly that the polices are very often implemented by people who are volunteers. And, frankly, most people who are able to give up their time are unlikely to be particularly 'average' (as in 'average man in the street'). It will often be those unable to function in paid employment, the wealthy (as in don't need paid employment) or OAPs answering the phones and making initial decisions on adoptions in many cases. Some obviously do an amazing job very well but others get a little power crazed IMO and try too hard to get 'perfect' homes for a few dogs - which usually mean homes with people very similar to the volunteers (anyone with an actual job - even with sensible plans for the animal - is pretty much out for a start!)

Yeah...*grumbles*....that. I suspect you're right. Common sense and trusting people's personal judgement can't come into it.

No, I looked into rehoming from rescues about a year ago and, one breed rescue and two 'basically importing European dogs for a profit' rescue aside I found them incredibly closed minded about rehoming to someone with a job.

Yes, agreed. It wasn't just the specific policies of not rehoming to people with jobs but the attitude that I found so frustrating - the very fact that I was considering acquiring a dog at the same time as working pretty well meant I was low life scum straight off, no more questions necessary. At least that's how they made me feel.

Edited to say, sorry OP, I got sidetracked. This isn't really relevant to your original post, just a personal gripe! And of course I realise that not all rescues are the same and that there are many very competent and caring people working for them. Breed rescues on the whole seemed to be much more flexible and personable - but I haven't put much thought into why that might be.

 

[catxx]

I can only speak for one particular large rescue, but they definitely rehome to people with full time jobs BUT only if the right kind of dog happens to be in the centre that fits into that lifestyle and the person is either able to take the dog into work with them, or has provision of dog walkers/dog sitters etc. Not every rescue dog can cope with people working a 9-5 (or longer) though as many have ended up in the rescue for not coping with exactly that. We have a lot of office dogs where I am with their 9-5 working owners, most of them are rescue dogs - but have to be sociable enough to cope with the office environment AND the busy city streets and public transport too.

And there are definitely little-kid friendly dogs in rescue too BUT they are pretty much adopted the day they walk in the door and will almost never hit the websites. Same rule applies to puppies, almost never hit the websites!

I think adoptees get frustrated that the perfect dog they want isn't necessarily in the centre the day they go and visit, sometimes it might take a month or two for the perfect dog to come in.

Back to the original question, the only way a breeder could claim their dog back, unless it's a small rescue and they already have a working relationship with them, would be to go through formal adoption procedures and agree to keep the dog permanently, not rehome/sell on (potentially causing a permanent circle of placements for the poor dog if the next home doesn't work out either).

 

[Moobli]

Rescue policies often baffle me, this one just seems ridiculous!

I do understand there are rubbish breeders out there, but I would have though the rescue could do some checks and then at least let the breeder know they have a dog in rescue.

 

[Dobiegirl]

If this is a responsible breeder involved fair enough, by that I mean if the breeder has always stipulated in writing they would take one of their dogs back yet had not been contacted by the previous owner I dont see why the rescue wouldnt pass on to the breeder for the adoption fee especially with a dog like the aforementioned.

Unfortunately if a rescue has spent time and money on this dog why should they pass the dog on to a BYB for them to make more money on this dog and send it to an unknown future.

Ive always been in favour of certain dogs coming into a mixed rescue being passed on to a specific breed rescue as they are the ones with the experience and tbf a lot of rescues do do that.

We had a similar problem a few years ago with a Lancashire Heeler that was in the DT, they wouldnt let our welfare group have the dog but a member of our group decided to apply to adopt this dog and unfortunately it was pts a few days earlier for nipping the heels of people. This is not an unknown problem in the breed but can be sorted through training with people experienced with the breed, this dog died un-necessarily because of their entrenched policies.

 

[catxx]

I do understand there are rubbish breeders out there, but I would have though the rescue could do some checks and then at least let the breeder know they have a dog in rescue.

While in an ideal world that would be great, they are under no obligation to do so unless the breeder already has a relationship with said rescue. The breeder doesn't have any claim to ownership after the dog has been sold to the owner that's relinquished the dog to rescue. It's a sad state of affairs and frustrating for the breeder, hopefully it will push that breeder to have better communication with other owners to reiterate that the breeder can take the dog back if they have a change in circumstance.

 

[Moobli]

That's a tricky one isn't it. I would imagine a lot of rescues have had their fingers burnt with the crap breeders and have to be understandably wary.

What if the breeder goes through the full adoption procedures with the rescue? It would be all rescue policy to not just give a dog to someone who says they're the breeder - what if they do that and something awful happens such as welfare issues with the breeder, or the breeder wants that dog to breed from and ends up in a puppy farmer situation? Not saying all breeders are like that of course, but the papers would LOVE juicy story like that to drag a rescue through the mud.

Surely if the breeder entered into adoption procedures with the rescue they could work that way? And the breeder respects a rescue's decision if they have to spay/neuter or have other veterinary costs? If the breeder goes to a rescue all guns blazing to get "their dog back", a rescue will be understandably defensive and wary.

Unfortunately, once the dog has been sold from breeder to owner, and the owner has decided to relinquish ownership to a rescue, the breeder has zero legal grounds to claim the dog back sadly.

This particular bitch is already spayed, the rescue have all the paperwork but they refuse to even tell him whether he is the breeder or not! He sells his pups with contracts that they are to come back to him in the event they need to be rehomed. And it seems because I had the audacity to ask whether they had contacted the breeder I am now blocked from commenting on the page, and they have even deleted my comment where I very innocuously said how tempted I was and how lovely she would look alongside my own dog (with a photo of him)! Bizarre!

In the last case, the breeder offered to adopt his bitch back, as well as offering a large donation. He also arranged for a police dog handler to go and assess her. The stud dog owner arranged for dog behaviourist, Steve Mann, to visit and assess her and he found her to be a lovely bitch without any real issues, yet the rescue had her down as a real handful, but were unwilling to allow her to go to one experienced home because the lady lived too rurally (wtf!) and they refused me - despite having plenty of references including one from a lady who runs GSD Rescue Scotland who is also a police dog handler.

 

[Alec Swan]

I do understand there are rubbish breeders out there, but I would have though the rescue could do some checks and then at least let the breeder know they have a dog in rescue.

That's what you and I would do, isn't it? Also if you and I had bred a dog which was in a rescue, wouldn't we wish to see if there was any way that we could help? I've had several pups returned to me over the years with the early rearing done for me — reasonable dogs they've turned out to be too.

……..

We had a similar problem a few years ago with a Lancashire Heeler that was in the DT, they wouldnt let our welfare group have the dog but a member of our group decided to apply to adopt this dog and unfortunately it was pts a few days earlier for nipping the heels of people. This is not an unknown problem in the breed but can be sorted through training with people experienced with the breed, this dog died un-necessarily because of their entrenched policies.

Perhaps someone could have pointed out that they aren't called 'Heelers' because they walk to heel. I heard of a very smart looking collie bitch in a rescue centre, I enquired and they asked me what I wanted the dog for. I replied that I kept sheep and (logically) sheepdogs and guess what, they wouldn't release a dog which was going to live in a kennel. The girl who worked at the centre and who first advised me of the dog subsequently told me that it nipped a member of staff and that it was deemed dangerous. It was put to sleep rather than give it a job to do.

I've been harsh about some of the equine charities previously and been roundly criticised on here for that, and whilst I accept without question that some, though probably they're in the minority, are staffed and run by people who know what they're doing, far too many aren't. Far too many are started and run by the well intentioned who haven't a clue what they're doing and they seem to acquire a belief that they're omnipotent, which I suppose they are!

Alec.

 

[GirlFriday]

... run by the well intentioned who haven't a clue what they're doing and they seem to acquire a belief that they're omnipotent, which I suppose they are!

Well put. Exactly my experience in the main.

 

[Moobli]

Partly policies. Also, I suspect, partly that the polices are very often implemented by people who are volunteers. And, frankly, most people who are able to give up their time are unlikely to be particularly 'average' (as in 'average man in the street'). It will often be those unable to function in paid employment, the wealthy (as in don't need paid employment) or OAPs answering the phones and making initial decisions on adoptions in many cases. Some obviously do an amazing job very well but others get a little power crazed IMO and try too hard to get 'perfect' homes for a few dogs - which usually mean homes with people very similar to the volunteers (anyone with an actual job - even with sensible plans for the animal - is pretty much out for a start!)

Ha ha as I have volunteered at various breed rescues over the years I am not sure what that says about me But do agree that egos, power trips and politics are not uncommon within the rescue world.

 

[Moobli]

Because breeder bashing is trendy and some people think it's kinder for a dog to languish in rescue or go to a completely unsuitable home and get bounced back repeatedly than it is for it to return to a breeder, or go somewhere where it might get involved in a job or sport or you know, what it was bred to do.
Because working breeds just LOVE low energy households and lying on the sofa all day...

However the upshot is there's too many dogs of all types being bred.
High drive working breeds don't make good pets in the main, despite what people think their capabilities are. Breeders need to be a bit more discerning about what they breed and who they sell to. If in doubt, leave it out.

Excellent post. Spot on I would say.

 

[planete]

I have been lucky enough to volunteer for a rescue where the odd nip or bite has not been ground for pts but for retraining and careful rehoming to knowledgeable people. Really dangerous dogs, the ones who have meant it and inflicted severe injuries without adequate provocation have regretfully been put down as too much of a risk. I am appalled at the examples mentioned. Not all rescues are as clueless.

 

[Moobli]

Back to the original post, speaking as a person who can function perfectly well in paid employment, if you look at it from the rescue's point of view, they have been handed a dog to them, for whatever reason - it could have even come via strays kennels. Why would they then hand said dog back to the breeder, who couldn't place the dog in the right home in the first place? Presumably the owners weren't given the option of returning this dog to the breeder, hence why it's finished up in rescue?

If the breeder was going to guarantee the dog a permanent home, then it might be a different prospect. They can then go through the re-homing process, like anyone else.

The dog has come in via a private home who is devastated at having to give her up due to some rather serious health issues - so perhaps not a case of breeder not placing the dog in the right home, but a sad situation that could happen to any of us.

 

[Moobli]

Similar to rspca and their equine pick ups. If they are found to be a registered 'breed' they will not inform the breed society whatsoever, but will re-home and often re-passport with a bog std passport.
This has come up a few times in recent years, depiste chip showing exactly who/what the pony is. Fuming just doesn't cover it

I just don't understand it! Especially when rescues all over are fit to burst with unwanted animals.

 

[catxx]

I just don't understand it! Especially when rescues all over are fit to burst with unwanted animals.

Although that said, the purebred higher quality animals, unless they're coming in with temperament or health issues, are easily adopted out in the blink of an eye. Especially if they've come in and are good with kids. The ones that are filling the kennels tend to be crossbreeds (or Staffies, Collies or Jack Russells!).

 

[Moobli]

If this is a responsible breeder involved fair enough, by that I mean if the breeder has always stipulated in writing they would take one of their dogs back yet had not been contacted by the previous owner I dont see why the rescue wouldnt pass on to the breeder for the adoption fee especially with a dog like the aforementioned.

Unfortunately if a rescue has spent time and money on this dog why should they pass the dog on to a BYB for them to make more money on this dog and send it to an unknown future.

Ive always been in favour of certain dogs coming into a mixed rescue being passed on to a specific breed rescue as they are the ones with the experience and tbf a lot of rescues do do that.

We had a similar problem a few years ago with a Lancashire Heeler that was in the DT, they wouldnt let our welfare group have the dog but a member of our group decided to apply to adopt this dog and unfortunately it was pts a few days earlier for nipping the heels of people. This is not an unknown problem in the breed but can be sorted through training with people experienced with the breed, this dog died un-necessarily because of their entrenched policies.

Yes entirely agree. This particular breeder does have a contract with owners and does stipulate dogs should come back to him. However, this rescue won't confirm or deny the dog is of his breeding. They have also blocked me from commenting on her thread simply for privately messaging them about her possible breeding lines! This is very reminiscent of a similar working GSD bitch in a small breed rescue two years ago. All quite odd imo.

 

[ester]

The dog has come in via a private home who is devastated at having to give her up due to some rather serious health issues - so perhaps not a case of breeder not placing the dog in the right home, but a sad situation that could happen to any of us.

Is there any explanation why they did not contact the breeder then?

 

[catxx]

Yes entirely agree. This particular breeder does have a contract with owners and does stipulate dogs should come back to him. However, this rescue won't confirm or deny the dog is of his breeding. They have also blocked me from commenting on her thread simply for privately messaging them about her possible breeding lines! This is very reminiscent of a similar working GSD bitch in a small breed rescue two years ago. All quite odd imo.

That is frustrating what rescue is it if you don't mind me asking? Private message me. Just curious really! Were the rescue definitely given the dogs paperwork when it was handed over?

 

[Moobli]

That's what you and I would do, isn't it? Also if you and I had bred a dog which was in a rescue, wouldn't we wish to see if there was any way that we could help? I've had several pups returned to me over the years with the early rearing done for me — reasonable dogs they've turned out to be too.



Perhaps someone could have pointed out that they aren't called 'Heelers' because they walk to heel. I heard of a very smart looking collie bitch in a rescue centre, I enquired and they asked me what I wanted the dog for. I replied that I kept sheep and (logically) sheepdogs and guess what, they wouldn't release a dog which was going to live in a kennel. The girl who worked at the centre and who first advised me of the dog subsequently told me that it nipped a member of staff and that it was deemed dangerous. It was put to sleep rather than give it a job to do.

I've been harsh about some of the equine charities previously and been roundly criticised on here for that, and whilst I accept without question that some, though probably they're in the minority, are staffed and run by people who know what they're doing, far too many aren't. Far too many are started and run by the well intentioned who haven't a clue what they're doing and they seem to acquire a belief that they're omnipotent, which I suppose they are!

Alec.

Absolutely Alec!

 

[Moobli]

Is there any explanation why they did not contact the breeder then?

No, other than to be very rude to one breeder who got in touch and said that she was in rescue now, so not his problem any more!

 

[Moobli]

That is frustrating what rescue is it if you don't mind me asking? Private message me. Just curious really! Were the rescue definitely given the dogs paperwork when it was handed over?

PM'd you.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Because they make money from presumably well intentioned people for having animals in their alleged care, and therefore aren't especially keen on the idea of anyone else being willing to provide better care for said animals at their own expense.

Breeder should take the buyer to court for breaking the terms of the original contract regarding rehoming. Ideally with as much fuss and media attention as possible.

 

[Goldenstar]

What a disgraceful post!! I'm guessing you have no idea of the diversity of people who are involved in dog rescues and are just making this up as you go along. I really hope so.

Back to the original post, speaking as a person who can function perfectly well in paid employment, if you look at it from the rescue's point of view, they have been handed a dog to them, for whatever reason - it could have even come via strays kennels. Why would they then hand said dog back to the breeder, who couldn't place the dog in the right home in the first place? Presumably the owners weren't given the option of returning this dog to the breeder, hence why it's finished up in rescue?

If the breeder was going to guarantee the dog a permanent home, then it might be a different prospect. They can then go through the re-homing process, like anyone else.

Pretty much my experiance though my SIL a experianced Labrador owner with a fenced garden and loads of experiance was turned down because.... drum roll she helped at the primary school at the end of her road one hour a day at lunch time .
I endured a ludicrous interrogation when trying to rehome a cat what more than a country home with twenty five acres with buildings ,gardens ,fields and woods and a cat flap could a homeless cat want .
Apparently they where concerned I might let the cat stay outside to much .