What is the issue with Dually Halters?

[Joyous70]

I recently started a new thread in which i stated i lead my filly out in a dually, to which i have had several people tell me to Ditch the Dually, but no real explanation as to why

Could you please explain to me what the problem is with a dually or similar being used.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Link to the thread? Hard to say without context!

 

[Joyous70]

sorry i don't know how to do a link, but this is the title below:- i believe its on page 2 of Tack Room at the moment.

Correcting Bad Behaviour - Planting, Rearing Cow Kicking etc

 

[FfionWinnie]

Ok well I just read the first couple of replies and I can say from my point of view you shouldn't use it because you are using it incorrectly. They aren't designed to be tugged.

I would suggest you read Richard Maxwell's Train your young horse.

 

[AmyMay]

Unless you know how to use it, it can be the cause of some problems - such as rearing, planting etc.

 

[maisiemoo]

No issue at all with using one on my mare, only needs it occasionally when leading to and from field and the grass is just too tempting, my 13 year old daughter has been taught how to use it correctly and we have no problems , better than going grass skiing !

 

[StormyGale]

i haven't read all comments but maybe it might be that people are suggesting the dually is causing the pressure on your horse and there for your horse is reacting to the dully rather than the situation so when she plants etc u pull on the dually its putting pressure on her so she rears so maybe their meaning if u ha normal head collar or bridle etc she wouldn't do it because she isn't reacting to the dually. dually and all pressure headcollars work on same principle of pressure and release if u aren't quick enough releasing or are putting too much pressure on they can have negative affect too. maybe people are suggesting u try something different to see if your youngster would be less reactive. hope this helps and apologies if people have meant something different just how i read.

 

[StormyGale]

also may benefit u to have some guidance on how to use if u still want to use the dually as its supposed to be an aid u don't want her thinking she's being punished when she doesn't understand what's expected.

 

[Joyous70]

i haven't read all comments but maybe it might be that people are suggesting the dually is causing the pressure on your horse and there for your horse is reacting to the dully rather than the situation so when she plants etc u pull on the dually its putting pressure on her so she rears so maybe their meaning if u ha normal head collar or bridle etc she wouldn't do it because she isn't reacting to the dually. dually and all pressure headcollars work on same principle of pressure and release if u aren't quick enough releasing or are putting too much pressure on they can have negative affect too. maybe people are suggesting u try something different to see if your youngster would be less reactive. hope this helps and apologies if people have meant something different just how i read.

Thank you, i understand now what you are saying, i didn't make myself clear. When i lead her out in the dually its loose and there is no pressure on at all, i will only apply pressure and not much if she does plant to ask her to walk on etc., She has only reared up on a couple of occasions and when she did there was again no pressure on the rope, it was her reacting to a situation such as leaving the field and her friend next door.

 

[Littlelegs]

In general my issue with duallys (or 'be-nice' halters etc) is that they are often mis-used. They are no different to a stallion chain imo. And whilst there are occasions when something of that severity is the only option, I find unlike stallion chains, people are more likely to use them when its not actually necessary, under the illusion that because they are nh products they are kind, without actually having any idea of how harsh they can be. I can think of quite a no of people in rl, who would be horrified at the idea of using something like a chain, but will happily tug away on a dually all day. I'm not saying that's always the case, but if I think back to before they were available, I can only think of a very small no of horses who had chains, & with odd exceptions it was usually a temporary measure till manners were worked on. Now, there's loads who 'need' duallys, & quite often its not just a temporary safety measure.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

sorry i don't know how to do a link, but this is the title below:- i believe its on page 2 of Tack Room at the moment.

Correcting Bad Behaviour - Planting, Rearing Cow Kicking etc

Correcting Bad Behaviour - Planting, Rearing Cow Kicking etc


Off topic but to insert a link you first go to the page/tab that has the link address that you want to copy, go up to the top of the screen to the box where it says http://www.horseandhound.co.uk... , left click on that so that it becomes blue, press ctrl + c to copy the link.

Go back to the page or tab where you want to use the link, open a reply box, then either just press ctrl + v to paste/insert the link or look just above the reply box where there is a a row of symbols, click the one mainly looking like the earth, press ctrl + v to paste the link and then the Ok button = the link shows up in the reply box.


The later option is useful if you want to change the text, so that it shows for example the thread title and not just the http://www.horseandhound... , because in the reply box it will show the link address two times, but the first becomes hidden in the posted reply, the second is the one that becomes visible and if you want it, you can change it.

 

[Joyous70]

FinnishLapphund - Thank you for that

 

[Tammytoo]

The dually is only as good or bad as whoever is using it. The handler must learn how to use it (there is a training CD supplied with the Dually at point of purchase). Too many people simply slap on the halter and expect miracles. As mentioned previously the release is crucial, otherwise there is no reward for the horse doing the right thing.

 

[Joyous70]

The dually is only as good or bad as whoever is using it. The handler must learn how to use it (there is a training CD supplied with the Dually at point of purchase). Too many people simply slap on the halter and expect miracles. As mentioned previously the release is crucial, otherwise there is no reward for the horse doing the right thing.

The DVD is no longer supplied when you buy them.

 

[Dry Rot]

Whether you use a dually, be-nice, rope halter, or even a leather head collar, it is absolutely fundamental that you learn how to apply pressure-and-release properly and how and why it works.

That fact that you are using a dually at all leads me to believe that you may not have learnt that. I don't mean to put you down about this because you are asking questions which is absolutely the right thing to do. That's how we all learn.

With pressure-and-release "less is more". I taught a well handled foal to lead in five minutes the other day simply by applying pressure on her leather head collar with one finger and releasing pressure the instant she moved in the desired direction. What you are really doing is teaching the horse how to turn off the mild discomfort of pressure on the poll.

As you say you never apply pressure on the dually, that seems to confirm that you don't need it! The worry is that the horse will react to something and get pain from the dually -- which merely confirms it's fears and that it should react to whatever upset it. Consequently, it is likely to react even more violently the next time. You, as the trainer, want to do exactly the opposite -- to reassure the horse so it is NOT worried or upset! You are empowering your horse to do the right thing.

Ditch the dually and look at some videos on YouTube which explain pressure and release. I, too, would recommend a rope halter.

 

[tallyho!]

I've only ever seen a dully used correctly once since it became available! The lady actually went to a demo and was shown how to use it. Then she showed me how to use it, properly.

I have handled many youngsters and I have to say, I have never needed more than a soft headcollar. A normal one.

I don't own a dually, I never will as I can't really see the point of it despite seeing the video and being shown how it works.

 

[Ibblebibble]

my problem with them is they don't seem to release quick enough, I've seen one used by someone who went on a kelly marks course so i would hope she was capable! Although it worked on my mare i think a lot of it was due to the confidence of the handler rather than the magic of the dually halter

 

[AceAmara]

The DVD is no longer supplied when you buy them.

i bought a new one last week and it came with a dvd

 

[Joyous70]

i bought a new one last week and it came with a dvd

i bought mine off the stand at YHL and was told they no longer provided the DVD with them, i suppose it depends where you buy it from now if they have older stock with the DVD's then im assuming you would get it.

 

[Oliver12]

i bought mine off the stand at YHL and was told they no longer provided the DVD with them, i suppose it depends where you buy it from now if they have older stock with the DVD's then im assuming you would get it.

I think I've got the DVD somewhere. If you PM me your address I'll get a copy for you.

 

[Joyous70]

Thats really kind of you thank you

 

[PandorasJar]

In general my issue with duallys (or 'be-nice' halters etc) is that they are often mis-used. They are no different to a stallion chain imo. And whilst there are occasions when something of that severity is the only option, I find unlike stallion chains, people are more likely to use them when its not actually necessary, under the illusion that because they are nh products they are kind, without actually having any idea of how harsh they can be. I can think of quite a no of people in rl, who would be horrified at the idea of using something like a chain, but will happily tug away on a dually all day. I'm not saying that's always the case, but if I think back to before they were available, I can only think of a very small no of horses who had chains, & with odd exceptions it was usually a temporary measure till manners were worked on. Now, there's loads who 'need' duallys, & quite often its not just a temporary safety measure.

^ This.

I don't like products pushed to sound like the fluffy friendly version when they aren't. Like anything, used correctly they are fine, but I don't like the way they are pushed as being a nicer option.

I have exactly the same problems with choke/check chains on dogs. Used correctly they are fine, used incorrectly they can kill. Yet no-one seems to realise what they are actually using or why.

 

[Landcruiser]

I have to disagree. The two ropes over the nose are much less harsh than any sort of chain. I do agree that they can be miss used, and it's important to use them as lightly as possible, and only for actual training. I have one that I use occasionally - it was useful for back up in hand, for instance.

 

[Orson Cart]

... for those who use a dually but have not seen the DVD on how to use it: You can sign up to the Equus Online University for a month (about £8) and go through MR's training methods with the dually. HTH. xx

 

[mel_s]

Pressure and release works the same - whatever the horse has on its head. So most horse owners would understand this surely?

Personally i use a rope halter. I do have a dually (somewhere) but found it less effective than the rope halter. Its clumsy, twists, and doesnt release quick enough. (Although it is useful for long lining if you dont want to use a bridle). I find the release with a rope halter is quicker (well, as quick as the person on the end) as its the same as a headcollar. But the dually i find sometimes gets stuck and you have to manually loosen it. Not really tight or anything, but the point is - you are giving mixed messaged.

As for leading horses - my youngster is lead in a rope halter. She leads fine and has been taught to lead fine. But i still like the added security as horses are unpredictable. I do not want her working out she is stronger than me (by accident or otherwise).

 

[smanf]

I didn't understand the concept of the Dually before I researched it properly. I thought it was just a purpose-made 'lead-rope round the nose type headcollar How wrong was I?

It is a training aid, and as others have said, it is only as good as the person using it; you need to see how the person who designed it, intended it to be used, it is not just for leading with either. Even the sizing and fitting is very important (it is supposed to site quite a lot higher than a regular headcollar, so that the rope doesn't interfere with the horses breathing by obstructing the soft part of the nose, it is also meant to be pretty snug to avoid any twisting etc.)

If you buy one direct from Intelligent Horsemanship then you get the educational dvd with it (I got mine yesterday).

 

[Joyous70]

If you buy one direct from Intelligent Horsemanship then you get the educational dvd with it (I got mine yesterday).

This is really odd - bought mine direct from Intelligent Horsemanship at their stall in November at YHL i asked where the DVD was and was told they didn't supply them with it anymore

 

[smanf]

This is really odd - bought mine direct from Intelligent Horsemanship at their stall in November at YHL i asked where the DVD was and was told they didn't supply them with it anymore

Oh, don't know then, maybe they were imposters? I'd ring up IH and tell em what for! Their number is on the website, they have been very helpful the couple of times I have spoken to them...

 

[Joyous70]

Oh, don't know then, maybe they were imposters? I'd ring up IH and tell em what for! Their number is on the website, they have been very helpful the couple of times I have spoken to them...

Maybe they were - i will ring them and see what they say, although some kind soul has offered to copy one for me and send it to me

 

[mynutmeg]

There was a problem with DVD supply for a while and they provided free access to the appropriate lessons online until the supply was fixed