What is the outlook for my rescued Shettie?

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Opticalillusion

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Hi guys,

Last month I rescued a shetland pony who has quite a lot of problems with his feet. They were hideously overgrown and curled up quite a lot at the ends. His hind hooves were fine, but he was limping really badly.

Apparently, he has a history of laminitis - a possible explanation for why the front hooves have grown and not the back ones so much. When I took him from the allotment he was in, he had unlimited access to a round bale of haylage, so he was in a pretty bad way.

When I managed to get him home, I gave him bute and called the vet/farrier. He was sedated and his hooves were trimmed. Only problem is, his laminae had grown too as well as the hoof wall, and they bled when they were trimmed.

I've since had 2 visits from the farrier; taking back the hooves a little bit at a time, then allowing them to heal before taking them back again a couple of weeks later.

The vet told me to keep him on bute, and slowly reduce the dosage. At his worst, he had 1 sachet a day, now it's 1/2. He has more in the couple of days after his feet have been trimmed, as they are open and very sore.

The vet told me to try and take him off it comletely between farrier visits. I tried this the day before yesterday, and yesterday I went down and he was limping pretty badly when I went to turn him out for a couple of hours. So it's back to the 1/2 sachet of bute a day again.

The vet says he may have a touch of arthritis in his front legs too because of the way he has been standing and his age - his passport says he is 19.

So.. basically i'm just asking what you think the outlook will be like for him? I was so upset when I went down yesterday and had to keep him on the bute... I really thought he was getting better. Will he have to be on it indefinitely? I'm so scared that the pedal bone has turned, but I can't afford the xrays as all of this is out of my own pocket. In a couple more visits from the farrier, he should have 'normal' looking feet. What if he still limps then?

I so want him to be ok. He is the sweetest little man who really doesn't deserve the treatment he's had.
 
You really must think carefully about his position I'm afraid reading what you have written. :( Hard work, good support and in time he may well have a chance. Trims that make him bleed or more sore are contraindicated even in laminitis. It sounds to me that he is still laminitic I'm afraid so needs treating as if he is in an acute episode. :(

Have you got him on a strict low sugar diet? He will need soaked, rinsed hay and no grass based diet. Laminitis is a metabolic condition not a mechanical one. Here's some info and the emergency diet linked at the bottom of the page is a great start. Over time his mineral status will need looking at in more detail but for now the E. diet is a great start and a priority. http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis
Blood tests for Cushings and insulin resistance may well be worth doing. Imo you also need the assistance of a hoof professional experienced in the rehab of horses with laminitis. My personal preference is an experienced trimmer with a proven success with laminitis rehab. You need to look at his environment and footing/bedding/pads/boots to keep him more comfortable.

Do lots of research about laminitis and get some idea of the implications. x

ps.He needs a diet to enable him to grow good lamina connection and time along with sympathetic trimming to enable the hoof capsule to begin to grow correctly and heal. Trimming laminitics is very skillful and important but diet is key to improving this condition.
 
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Thank you so much for your reply!

At the moment he is on pretty much the emergency diet.. I've been giving him soaked hay, speedibeet (to mix the bute in with) and fibre cubes. I've been turning him out for a couple of hours a day as I thought he was getting better, but i'll stop that straight away.

I'm also going to bathe his feet for longer and try once again to cut out the bute. As it says on that website, maybe it will make him lie down more. He has a very deep straw bed, which so far he's not eaten.

Interestingly enough, he looks pretty much at an ideal weight, and he doesn't seem to eat much. His teeth are fine, and his appetite has picked up a little now that he has settled in.

My farrier does work for the vet re. laminitis cases. He's just struggling with the shetland because he doesn't know the location of the bone without an xray, so he's trimming blind.

I must say, reading that website, it doesn't look good. How long do you think it will take for me to see an improvement?

I've gotta dash just now, but i'll read up on cushings and insulin resistance when i get back from the paddock as i've got no experience with it.

I'll be honest though, i'm devastated :(
 
Find the money for the x-rays. You cannot expect the farrier to work blind. Borrow the money if you have to. I have been through this with my pony. The vet kept saying he did not need x-rays - the farrier disagreed. I was caught in the middle with a pony who was obviously in distress and in great pain. In the end I told the vet to x-ray or I'd get another firm to do it. The x-ray showed a lot of rotation that could and should have been dealt with weeks earlier. I ended up having him pts because we could not manage his pain.
 
I agree with BigRed re the X-rays but would also like to say from experience that a month is no time when you are dealing with laminitis, so don't despair just yet.
 
I always thought that it was best to keep them as comfortable as possible with bute, long term use in this situation will do more good than harm, any other implications are secondary to getting the inflammation and pain under control.
Your farrier will be the best person to give an honest opinion on the outcome he will be used to dealing with laminitic feet, mine would tell you if he felt there was no point going on if the outcome was unlikely to be good. If he really needs xrays see if you can just do the ones required so he knows what is happening and can trim accordingly.
As suggested get the diet right and I would keep him on bute if he is comfortable and not try to stop it until his feet have had a real chance to fully recover the laminae will have been under pressure for a very long time it will take as long, if not longer, for recovery to happen.
Good luck with the little chap, he must appreciate everything you are doing, even if it does hurt at times.
 
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Thanks so much for your help guys..

Well, tonight he trotted over to the gate when I went to get him in for the night. The wonders of bute eh?

I'm going to leave the bute for tonight and assess whether he needs some in the morning. I'm keeping him on box rest now, and will keep hosing his feet. Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any heat coming from them (even before hosing). But they are still rather long.

As for the xrays, I really, really can't afford them. I took on the pony through pity, and it's costing me £120 every 2 weeks for the farrier/vet. I know some people will say I shouldn't have taken him on if I couldn't afford to get him right, but I really am trying the best I can. My husband is fuming I got him in the first place (and how much it's costing us), but I couldn't leave him where he was.

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow to get an exact quote, but i've a funny feeling that i'll be looking at hundreds of pounds, and I just don't have it. :(
 
Opticalillusion said:
Hi guys,

Last month I rescued a shetland pony who has quite a lot of problems with his feet. They were hideously overgrown and curled up quite a lot at the ends. His hind hooves were fine, but he was limping really badly.

Apparently, he has a history of laminitis - a possible explanation for why the front hooves have grown and not the back ones so much. When I took him from the allotment he was in, he had unlimited access to a round bale of haylage, so he was in a pretty bad way.

When I managed to get him home, I gave him bute and called the vet/farrier. He was sedated and his hooves were trimmed. Only problem is, his laminae had grown too as well as the hoof wall, and they bled when they were trimmed.

I've since had 2 visits from the farrier; taking back the hooves a little bit at a time, then allowing them to heal before taking them back again a couple of weeks later.

The vet told me to keep him on bute, and slowly reduce the dosage. At his worst, he had 1 sachet a day, now it's 1/2. He has more in the couple of days after his feet have been trimmed, as they are open and very sore.

The vet told me to try and take him off it comletely between farrier visits. I tried this the day before yesterday, and yesterday I went down and he was limping pretty badly when I went to turn him out for a couple of hours. So it's back to the 1/2 sachet of bute a day again.

The vet says he may have a touch of arthritis in his front legs too because of the way he has been standing and his age - his passport says he is 19.

So.. basically i'm just asking what you think the outlook will be like for him? I was so upset when I went down yesterday and had to keep him on the bute... I really thought he was getting better. Will he have to be on it indefinitely? I'm so scared that the pedal bone has turned, but I can't afford the xrays as all of this is out of my own pocket. In a couple more visits from the farrier, he should have 'normal' looking feet. What if he still limps then?

I so want him to be ok. He is the sweetest little man who really doesn't deserve the treatment he's had.
Click to expand...

maybe post in new lounge as well there are a lot more viewers on there, I've just had hoof xrays as well but don't know how much it will be...awaiting the bill :eek:
 
Im really sorry for you. I'd have done the same. If i were u, I'd take a load of pics of his feet & post them (along with your original post on here) on this forum

http://Phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/index.php

Is he on brewers yeast or magnesium oxide? I'd recommend both. The mag ox helps to encourage even blood pressure & regulate insulin (amongst other things!) and the BY helps keep tummies happy. If u want to feed a decent hoof supplement,.there's the new one from Forage Plus, one from Progressive Earth called Pro Hoof and one from Equimins but i can't remember what it's called. Metabalance i think.
Anyway, wishing u loads of luck with him. At his age, the chances are he DOES have cushings. Pracend is an expensive drug, so maybe you could try him on Chasteberry instead? :)
 
itsonlyme said:
Im really sorry for you. I'd have done the same. If i were u, I'd take a load of pics of his feet & post them (along with your original post on here) on this forum

http://Phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/index.php

Is he on brewers yeast or magnesium oxide? I'd recommend both. The mag ox helps to encourage even blood pressure & regulate insulin (amongst other things!) and the BY helps keep tummies happy. If u want to feed a decent hoof supplement,.there's the new one from Forage Plus, one from Progressive Earth called Pro Hoof and one from Equimins but i can't remember what it's called. Metabalance i think.
Anyway, wishing u loads of luck with him. At his age, the chances are he DOES have cushings. Pracend is an expensive drug, so maybe you could try him on Chasteberry instead? :)
Click to expand...

good idea if you take photos then post them in new lounge as well there are some fantasic "hoof" people on here
 
I chose not to have Xrays of my girl's feet when she went down with acute laminitis last year. Whilst I believe the Xrays would have been interesting, they would not have changed the way I chose to treat my pony - the change in wall angle shows how much rotation there's been, and I knew the pedal bone couldn't sink significantly because I was keeping the hoof wall very short (so there was literally no "gap" for the foot to sink through).

However, in a pony with an unknown history, Xrays would tell you if the pedal bone has been remodelled at all (basically, if some of it has worn away if the pony foundered before you got him).

What I would suggest is that you call a seriously good trimmer, and ask if they will come out for a single consultation and give you their opinion. My own trimmer is based in Derbyshire, and travels up to me in North Yorkshire every 6 weeks to check on how I'm doing with my gang. She has had astonishing success with very very severely laminitic horses/ponies and I cannot speak highly enough of her.

If you are wanting to keep costs down, but still do your best for your pony, then it may be that you should consider learning to trim your pony yourself. It's not hard once the principles are explained, and if you are able to do interim trims with a trimmer doing the main trim, then that can also help your pony become more comfortable sooner.

One cost that I would think worthwhile, though, is to have the pony tested for glucose/insulin and ACTH to test for Cushing's. The results of the ACTH should give you an idea of whether you pony has Cushing's and is therefore at greater risk of laminitis and may benefit from pergolide (prascend) to stay as healthy as possible.

Hope you are able to help him. Oh, if you would like my trimmer's number, feel free to pm me.

Sarah
 
you can pay the vet off a little each month, they will understand, the farrier shouldnt be charging you that much and imo there wouldnt be much growth in 2 weeks so isnt that a bit short a time to be trimming, leave them alone now to grow and settle and get him comfortable and on the special diet, dont give up and good luck and well done you for caring for him and just thank your OH for being there to support you, deep down he will appreciate that.
 
If it helps, hoof x-rays aren't horrendously expensive. I had one of my girls x-rayed about seven months ago (after four years of unbelievably expensive treatments, veterinary and complementary, for a variety of hoof and back issues that kept triggering each other). With the insurance long up and a fairly nasty credit card bill stacked up, I could barely afford it, but I think to have both front feet done it came in at £90 - x-ray machine brought to the yard, no need for horspital, etc. It was useful for us in the sense that it finally proved ALL clinical tests were finding zilch left wrong with her and she was still around 2/10ths lame bilaterally up front, so I could give up and retire her. (Brat is now field sound!). It's certainly easier than working blind and not as bad as I was expecting cost wise :)

Good luck with your chap - he's a lucky one!
 
I'll try the brewers yeast and magnesium oxide, thanks!

I've just signed up to photobucket so I can put some pics up. I've only got them from the first two days, but i'll take some more recent ones tomorrow.

http://s1147.photobucket.com/albums/o546/opticalillus5/

I hope that works!

If the xrays are less than £150 then I may be able to sell my old riding mare's saddle for the money... I thought they'd be hundreds!

Also, I'll ask the vet about cushings while i'm on the phone to her tomorrow.

Oh, and we're only getting them trimmed every 2 weeks at the moment because they are still so overgrown that they are affecting the way he stands. The farrier only charges £15, but because it's so painful for him we get the vet out to sedate him each time. Hopefully though soon he'll be settled enough for me to give him sedalin myself which will help with the costs. I just don't wanna do anything that will upset him more... poor little mite has been through enough :(

Apparently he used to be a really good driving pony too.. Until the owner split with his wife, who took his daughter. He didn't know how to look after horses, but didn't want to sell him and upset his daughter even more. So he tried his best with him (hence the haylage!) but didn't have a clue. He asked his traveller friend to trim his hooves, but the friend and owner freaked when they started bleeding and so they got left.

It's a really sad case of neglect, and I hate to think how long he would have stayed in that allotment in pain if I hadn't been tipped off :(
 
Oh god love him :) What a cutie. Awful feet, but it's amazing how good they can become with proper diet, movement & trimming. Please keep us updated with him. Deff get more recent pics :)
 
Not wanting to contradict your vet but Bute should not be used in miniatures. The margin of error for the wrong dose is small and can very easily be overdosed. I would be speaking to the vet about this and asking for an alternative form of pain relief. Believe it or not not many vets understand miniatures needs are different than larger horses and there are many medcines, wormers that people think they can just give a smaller dose to miniatures but they are actually lethal.
He looks cute and well done for trying to help him.
 
Thank you! I'll def be updating :)

Thanks stinkbomb, i'll ask my vet about it tomorrow when I call about the xray prices etc. Hopefully i'll be able to get him off everything soon, but I didn't know they couldn't have bute. I've been giving him 1/2 sachet at the moment, and he's 35 inches, so I hope I haven't done any damage so far.

As for worming, he's on a strict routine because i'm guessing he hasn't been wormed for 7 years either. The only plus to him being in the allotment alone is that he won't have been exposed to as many worms as if he shared his grazing, so fingers crossed he'll be ok with that... he doesn't seem tucked up etc and I wormed him on the third day. x
 
In my opinion he does have rotation, you can see it from the original pictures. X-rays are nice to have for security, but not vital if you can read a foot.

This rehabilitation could take 6 months, it takes that long for him to grow a new foot, given the correct care. Until he's sound he should be on a deep shavings bed, and not walking about. With rotation like he has, the last thing his feet need is to be walking about on them!

Yes get him off bute as soon as you can, but if he's in that much pain you need to resolve his management in order to do this. Good luck.
 
For a hoof supplement try gelatine, 69p from home baking sections of
supermarkets for 6 sachets.
Quick results, our farrier commented on how good our TB's feet were
looking after 18 weeks, he was amazed when I showed him my 'supplement'
even the cracks in his fronts looked better, one sachet a day I gave our 16hh
TB
Good luck
 
I had lots of hoof xrays done on my angel pony who I lost last year and I'm pretty sure the most expensive ones were £120 for both front feet, from 3 angles per foot. If you're already paying that every other week for a trim that's making him bleed, I'd be inclined to bring the feet back more slowly once you've done xrays and know what you're dealing with.

Good luck, laminitis is a truly awful disease. My girl first developed it whilst on a field rest recovering from ligament problems and was then prone to it thereafter :(
 
Opticalillusion said:
I'll be honest though, i'm devastated :(
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if I upset you. From what you wrote about the curled toes it sounds like long term laminitis...

I wrote a long post yesterday and lost it. Re X Rays I believe that is the best way. Pete Ramey has described a way to read the position of the pedal bone without them using the collateral grooves because he has many owners who can't afford X rays. Here's a link to one of his articles which might help your Farrier if he wants to investigate it. http://hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm This on it's own wont be enough but it might be something for him to investigate.

The trim is to stop the prizing forces and realign the coffin bone as best as can be achieved in that particular hoof and support the new good lamina attachment so a well attached wall can grow down. The trim cannot mend the hoof, a good hoof has to be grown and the trim for individual laminitics is to help this happen.

As has been said vets are often very happy for you to pay off monthly, mine is. :)

Second giving magnesium oxide and I would add salt and vitamin E which is lacking in a hay diet.

He is a lovely little fella and very lucky you are determined to help him. I wish you and him the best. x

ps. Many, many horses and ponies have made full recoveries from severe rotation or sinking. x
 
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Sorry I can't be of any practical use, but I just wanted to say how nice it is to read about someone doing their best to help a horse that they've taken on through the kindess of your heart. You really are lovely to be finding the money to look after this little man, and even selling your old mare's saddle to pay for his treatment. People like you make the world a better place :)

Good luck to you and the little man.
 
Thank you so much for all of your support.. It really is helping me to keep positive at the moment.

I'll have a look at the supermarket tomorrow for some gelatine :)

And thanks for all of your help amadap - you didn't upset me any more than I already was; I just wanted someone to say that I was being silly and there was nothing wrong with him lol.. Unrealistic, I know, but we can dream can't we? :)

Well, I called the vets and the farrier today. The vet who saw Timmy wasn't working, so she's calling me back tomorrow. BUT the price of xrays will be £189 + call out. :( The farrier said that he's gonna hang on before he does another trim until I have decided whether to xray, but I just wanted to keep him in the loop as it has been 2 weeks today since his last trim.

Today, he's not limping as bad, but still is rather stiff. I didn't give him bute last night, so I expected worse really. He seems rather happy as he was trying to eat the hose while I was soaking his hooves, and seemed in good spirits overall.

So i'm still going to wait and see what the vet advises tomorrow. If she thinks it will significantly speed up his recovery, I'm going to get him booked in on Tuesday (we get half price call-outs then). If not, i'll get the farrier out tomorrow/sunday for his next trim and take it from there.

I've put some pics up taken this evening on my album:

http://s1147.photobucket.com/albums/o546/opticalillus5/

And as you can see his feet are still pretty long. Sorry for the lighting - I don't get down until dusk because of work!

Can't wait to be able to spend a good few hours with him tomorrow.. Gonna give him a right good brush and get shut of a lot of his malting fur! :)
 
Well done you for all you have done and are doing for this little man, he looks such a cutie even with all he has been through, don't know what I could do to help but would really like to if you can think of anything:)
 
Thank you so much; it really helps just by people posting and taking interest :)

I've just ordered magnesium oxide and brewers yeast too, so hopefully they'll get here for the beginning of next week to go with the vet visits etc :)
 
I wonder if the vets could give you anything like sedalin to help sedate him for the farrier so you don't need to have them out everytime, I expect it made difficult because he is so small, you would have to be careful of the dose?
 
Next time i'm allowed to try it; i've bought some already. I just didn't want to so far because he was in quite a lot of pain so I wanted the vet out anyway to give him another check. Poor little man doesn't put up much of a fight to anything though - it's not like he's nervous. I guess he's either really well behaved, or in too much pain to bother playing up. That said, he will give your bum a cheeky nip when you pick out his feet.

I'm going to syrnge some out of the sedalin tube and into a different syrnge so that I don't accidentally press the lever down too far. Although, he is really good with taking wormers and syrnges as I had to give him his bute by syrnge to make sure he got it to start with.
 
Another who wanted to say well done on taking him. :) I have a pony prone to lami so know what you are going through. Good luck with him and help all goes well tomorrow :)
 
Thats good then, at least that will save you a bit of money:)

Hope for your sake hubby doesn't read this thread and see how much the little fella is costing !!
 
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