What on earth is ROLLKUR????....

[Chloe_GHE]

I just typed prelim 4 into you tube and loads of videos about "rollkur" appeared it looks barbaric! with dressage horses heads almost pinned to their chests....

I have never seen it before so am open to people explaining it but I can't see any merit in it myself, can you?...

Rolkur Wikipedia entry

 

[stencilface]

I think there have been many other posts on here discussing here, although don't have links to any sorry!

I'm sure some more helpful people will though

 

[smellsofhorse]

Weird.

Ive not heard of it before, in about to go onto you tube to have a look but it doesnt sound good..

 

[smellsofhorse]

Hyperflexion

Its what its says.

As it says it might be good in the correct hands.
Those hands wouldnt be mine, i think you would have to be very experienced to use it correctly.
I can see people using it incorrectly.

 

[flyingfeet]

http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/index.php

It basically teaches the horse to carry themselves despite the rider, often used as a short cut as despite being out of balance they can cope and thus improves scores. Also means the horse is relieved to do a test rather than train in rollkur.

 

[kerilli]

there are lots of previous posts about it.
it is an extreme method of control. i don't think a rollkured horse CAN buck even if it wants to.
google pics or stories of Coby Van Baalen lungeing a pony in rollkur position too.
the main purpose of it afaik is that it forces the horse to use a certain muscle on the underside of its neck/chest to bring the foreleg forward (might be gastrocnemius muscle?), resulting in the goose-stepping huge front leg movement shown by some top horses e.g. Anky's. Even though this leads to a "broken trot" where the pairs of diagonal legs are at completely different angles (v v wrong) unfortunately judges at top level are used to seeing this now... and rewarding it.

 

[Halfstep]

Rolkur started, contrary to most people's ideas, not with dressage riders but with show jumpers in the 1980s. They started training horses (usually in draw reins) very, very deep and short, often flexing side to side as well. The idea was to really get the back up to create that very bouncy show jump canter and get the horse to bascule steeply over their fences. You still see this in a lot of show jumping warmups.

The idea (but minus the draw reins) was taken up by Nicole Uphoff as a way of dealing with Rembrant's extreme spookiness. Sjef Jannsen adapted it into a system (which he himself says should only be used by riders with the very best seats and timing.....). As practiced by Anky et al. it became a way of gymnasticing horses' bodies - by taking the neck down and preventing the horse from using its neck as a balancing rod, the back becomes much stronger. The idea is that when you bring the horse up to a normal "competition frame", you still have the connection over the back that the deep frame has established. It also is thought to help keep a very sharp horse more concentrated on the rider.

The down side is that if the rider is not careful it can disengage the hind legs. But I don't think that rolkur is the reason why we see a lot of horses with big front leg movement in modern dressage - I think this has more to do with the type of horses that are being bred for the job these days tbh.

I don't mean this as a "defence" of rollkur - I would not ride in this way (I'm not good enough to do so even if I wanted to!), but to give some perspective into why some of the world's very top riders use this system.

 

[lucretia]

Half step is quite right about the origins of this practise. recently there was a proper scientic study of this which is what prompted all the latest debates.
Conducted by the uiversity of Guelp in Canada, their conclusion was this
"The present study demonstrates that horses show higher levels of discomfort when ridden in a coercively obtained Rollkur posture compared to regular poll flexion, and that they will avoid being ridden in Rollkur if given the chance. Given the potential negative impact on rider safety and welfare of the horse as demonstrated in the present study, and for want of clear scientific evidence of any beneficial effects, it is suggested that Rollkur should not be practiced in a coercive manner."
here is a link to the full piece though you may only get the abstract if you are not a subscriber to Science Direct.
doi:10.1016/j.applanim.2008.10.001

 

[Halfstep]

Of course the key word in that study is "coercive". As demonstrated by Anky, they would claim that their system is not coercive, but that the horses are trained to go into that position gradually........

 

[MandyMoo]

i just read an article in ''your horse'' about it and wasnt QUITE sure what it was...but after reading all these posts it does indeed sound barbaric

xx

 

[lucretia]

i believe that there is another study which i will try and find which indicates working horses in that position, even if they ar apparently willingly aquiesing, has a detrimental effect on breathing because of the compression of the wind pipe.
there is alot mor appliance of science in these investigatins now which i think is a good idea.