What to charge for breaking in?

[Nicole-Louise]

I've had years of experience with breaking in, and thought, since I have so much time on my hands, to keep it up as a little 'hobby' of mine.

Anyways, I'm already in mid flow to backing my youngster. But, I've been asked by someone to back her two 14hh coloured geldings. Pretty sure they haven't even been mouthed.. (not that I mind!)

Anyways, I'm not really interested in the money side, but anything that I do get will come in handy for my youngster. I've already said I'll charge £30 per week per horse, just to cover rent and feed. But she said they won't need hard feed as they're already on grass.
Anyways, rent is only £15 a week, so really in a month I'll get £120 left over for anything else they need.

But, I've been asked if I would be willing to do a complete price regardless of how long I have them.. I don't like rushing any horse, but I have no clue what price to do? They'll be needing regular farrier visits, worming, rent, and any hay etc on top, as much as I'm willing to do this for her, I don't want to be out of pocket for someone else's companions. Mine is bad enough!

Can anyone help on what to charge?

Thanks!

 

[be positive]

By charging a set rate you will have to stand all expenses, how long would you expect to take and how far are you expected to get them.

She is obviously looking for them to be done cheaply, £30 per week may cover your costs but nothing towards your time, a professional would be charging 4x that and still not be making much profit. If you think that you should be working with them for around an hour each day, plus your rent etc it really should be a minimum of £65 per week at just £5 per hour for your time.

I would not do a fixed rate as it could leave you stuck with them until she is ready to have them back rather than them going well enough to go home, instead tell her it will take 4- 6 weeks at £? per week and if she is not happy let her find somewhere cheaper if she can.

 

[xspiralx]

£30 is way too cheap - surely that would barely cover your costs.

Definitely wouldn't do a fixed price as you don't know how long it will take or what could go wrong.

If they really want a fixed price I'd give them a price for say 6-8 weeks (however long you expect it to take) and then say that you can't guarantee where they will be by that stage but any further training needed will incur costs of x per week.

I'd also say that the price you quote is inclusive of the basic care and feed, but they will be liable for any extra expenses on top - worming, farrier visits etc.

 

[kerilli]

^^^ this is good advice.
also, it is totally impossible to say how long it will take with an individual horse... it depends totally on how it reacts. My fastest ever was 2 weeks, he was just easy peasy, but others have taken far longer to get to the same stage. so, not fair on either of you to try to do an 'all in fee'.
also, you really do need to factor in some danger money... there's a reason a lot of people send horses away to be backed...
I would say an absolute minimum of £10 per day + £15 a week + farrier, vet, worming etc. Maybe + use of your saddle(s), or are they coming with tack? will you have to pay someone else to be around while you are doing the backing?

 

[pookie]

All of the above.

Take a look at what professionals in your area are charging (and then reduce if you're not professionally qualified). Average down here seems to be around £30 an hour.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Unless this is a very close friend who is also willing to help out I would charge an economic rate. Rate per week. Paid weekly in advance in cash, costs per week as incurred.
You need the horses stabled part time in order to do handling, and it is your choice not the owners.
I charged £45 per week [winter] to look after [an abandoned horse] which had been "dumped " on me, that did not include hay or stable, did include hard feed and bedding, worming, jabs and farrier, that was five years ago.
Believe me, the novelty soon wears off. You also have to be aware that you could get injured and may need help for some stages, if any accident occurred you could be liable.
Any vet, farrier, dental work needs to be charged direct to owner.
To be honest if people want to buy unbroken horses they need to take responsibility for ongoing costs. The standard cost at a top livery yard round here would be £130 per week [six days work per week, they take 6 to 8 weeks, at a lower grade one it is £50 per week, but the horses take three to four months, they get a lot less work.
You must avoid your strings being pulled, eg. "oh he does not need teeth done/worming/farrier/ feed" etc.

 

[Littlelegs]

Actual cost of keeping them plus anything from £5- £30 an hour for your time working with them, depending on how much you like her & your skill, plus maybe £6 per hour for normal daily care. Quote her for 6 weeks but with a clause that if it takes less time you'll refund the difference, longer & she pays for extra.

 

[Nicole-Louise]

£30 is way too cheap - surely that would barely cover your costs.

Definitely wouldn't do a fixed price as you don't know how long it will take or what could go wrong.

If they really want a fixed price I'd give them a price for say 6-8 weeks (however long you expect it to take) and then say that you can't guarantee where they will be by that stage but any further training needed will incur costs of x per week.

I'd also say that the price you quote is inclusive of the basic care and feed, but they will be liable for any extra expenses on top - worming, farrier visits etc.

I appreciate all your answers and can understand what you're saying. I will be drawing up a contract and perhaps may be best to directly charge owner for worming, farrier etc as that isn't what I'm offering.

I thought by doing a fixed price it's a bit risky, and I could end up with them for longer than anticipated. It's worse being 2 horses needed to be broken in.

I just hate pricing (pretty useless at it too). But have no clue what fix price would be suitable for 6-8 weeks worth. I'll be handling every day, but walking out, lunging, long reinging, etc..

 

[Rudey]

My cow pony is currently at the breaker's yard, and I have paid £600 for 8 weeks, which breaks down to £75 per week. That includes being turned out 24/7 in an individual paddock which is poo picked daily, general day to day care, being worked each day and hard feed (he's not getting hay as there's good grazing there). Any farrier costs or the such like, I pay for separately. xx

 

[be positive]

My cow pony is currently at the breaker's yard, and I have paid £600 for 8 weeks, which breaks down to £75 per week. That includes being turned out 24/7 in an individual paddock which is poo picked daily, general day to day care, being worked each day and hard feed (he's not getting hay as there's good grazing there). Any farrier costs or the such like, I pay for separately. xx

That is just £10 per day which for most pro yards would not even be worth doing with the time and risk involved, I dont know how they can do it for so little, that is less than I used to charge 20 years ago

 

[Nicole-Louise]

My cow pony is currently at the breaker's yard, and I have paid £600 for 8 weeks, which breaks down to £75 per week. That includes being turned out 24/7 in an individual paddock which is poo picked daily, general day to day care, being worked each day and hard feed (he's not getting hay as there's good grazing there). Any farrier costs or the such like, I pay for separately. xx

Wow, so I guess I'm being on the cheap side of things? They will be worked and handled daily, so as much as he money doesn't bother me, anything helps I guess.

 

[cellie]

Im paying £125 per week thought it was reback but turns out he hadnt been started or done badly .Mines coming home tomorrow as he appears to have problem on one rein so getting teeth feet saddle all redone to rule out any probs and then he will go back to be finished.

 

[Rudey]

That is just £10 per day which for most pro yards would not even be worth doing with the time and risk involved, I dont know how they can do it for so little, that is less than I used to charge 20 years ago

It is a great deal for me that's for sure! (However, I am still having to pay my livery for his stable at the yard I normally keep him at on top to secure my livery space).

The lady that is doing it has her own yard where she does full livery, breaking livery, and schooling livery. I have known her many years as she has been my instructor with my other horse, so I am not sure whether the price is her 'usual standard' breaking fees, or as a good deal as I know her so well.

Also, I wonder if her price factored in the work I have already done with him? He's 4 years old and my little man has had copious amounts of handling, in that he has shown as a yearling, as a two year old, and county show level as a 3 year old. I have done a hell-ish amount of long reining with him from November last year up to mid May (when I sent him away), and lunged him for a month prior to sending him. He has had loads of ground work, de-sensitising, and fully tack broken too. xx

 

[Rudey]

Wow, so I guess I'm being on the cheap side of things? They will be worked and handled daily, so as much as he money doesn't bother me, anything helps I guess.

Extremely! As be positive pointed out with my post, I am everso slightly paying over a mere £10 per day for her to not only look after him, but also work him! You can't even get a riding lesson for an hour nowadays for that! xx

 

[be positive]

It is a great deal for me that's for sure! (However, I am still having to pay my livery for his stable at the yard I normally keep him at on top to secure my livery space).

The lady that is doing it has her own yard where she does full livery, breaking livery, and schooling livery. I have known her many years as she has been my instructor with my other horse, so I am not sure whether the price is her 'usual standard' breaking fees, or as a good deal as I know her so well.

Also, I wonder if her price factored in the work I have already done with him? He's 4 years old and my little man has had copious amounts of handling, in that he has shown as a yearling, as a two year old, and county show level as a 3 year old. I have done a hell-ish amount of long reining with him from November last year up to mid May (when I sent him away), and lunged him for a month prior to sending him. He has had loads of ground work, de-sensitising, and fully tack broken too. xx

Possibly "mates rates" plus she knows he should not be a difficult one with all your work in place, when you said breakers yard it sounded more like a yard that just does breaking, often where the tricky ones get sent Its still a really good deal and even better that you know her so well.

 

[Rudey]

double posted.....

 

[Rudey]

Possibly "mates rates" plus she knows he should not be a difficult one with all your work in place, when you said breakers yard it sounded more like a yard that just does breaking, often where the tricky ones get sent Its still a really good deal and even better that you know her so well.

Yeah it probably is like you say - it must be mates rates. When you break it down to the daily amount, it is a cracking deal (for me). I certainly would want paying more.

*Touches wood* all goes well with him. He's on his third week and she has managed to mount him from the ground, walk and trot him with her on board. He's been really responsive, calm and forward.

I oozed enthusiasm of how well he was going, being so straight forward and easy, and she said we're not out of the woods just yet, past experience had taught her that!

I watched her ride him on Tuesday, and the next time she's allowing me to watch him being worked is in two weeks time. By then she's hoping to be cantering and introducing road work. She wants me to be able to see the progress made, hence why she has asked for me not to watch him work until then. I'm really excited. I am so pleased I sent him off to her to do. xx

 

[dominobrown]

I am charging £60 a week at the moment for the pony I am breaking who is out and isn't on hard feed. They have provided wormers, bridle and I have passed on the farrier cost to them as well. The yard where I worked charged over £200 a week for breakers, though although I was the one getting on the horses, this was at a professional yard.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I watched her ride him on Tuesday, and the next time she's allowing me to watch him being worked is in two weeks time. By then she's hoping to be cantering and introducing road work. She wants me to be able to see the progress made, hence why she has asked for me not to watch him work until then. I'm really excited. I am so pleased I sent him off to her to do. xx

Odd! We take a lot of backers and owners are welcome to come and see them work any time - as long as they let us know WHEN they're coming so we don't work the horse before they arrive. IMHO, the more the owner sees of the process, the more able they will be to understand the horse's needs when he comes home. Most only come once or twice a week - which is plenty from our point of view because visitors are time consuming (something owners don't take into account when considering costs.)
We charge £150 a week - stabled and turned out daily - and farrier/vet as needed is extra. There is VERY little 'profit' in that when you consider the time taken, and the fact that two people are involved for quite a lot of the process - even if once the horse has the rider on and is off lead/lunge someone DOES need to be there to keep an eye in case anything goes wrong and an ambulance has to be called!!

I would also be VERY wary of taking on ANY horse for any purpose without full insurance. If you are being paid (even a pittance) then the membership-type Public Liability insurance does NOT cover you! And what if the horse is hurt - and owner sues you?? Or is someone is helping you - and horse jumps on their head? It costs me over £2,000 a year for full Public Liability, employer liability and 'product' liability (which covers me for owners suing if horse is injured etc.) These are the sort of costs that have to be factored in when setting costs!

 

[Kaylum]

My cow pony is currently at the breaker's yard, and I have paid £600 for 8 weeks, which breaks down to £75 per week. That includes being turned out 24/7 in an individual paddock which is poo picked daily, general day to day care, being worked each day and hard feed (he's not getting hay as there's good grazing there). Any farrier costs or the such like, I pay for separately. xx

Our yo charged that last year to my friend and gave her a couple of lessons before the horse went home. Professionally broken.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

So you quote this person £30 per week per horse and she says but they don't get hard feed and so you knock it down to £15! Your friend is very lucky she has someone who can do a decent job on £2 a day!

You may not need the money, you may think nothing can or will happen but I wouldn't let any horse into my yard for £30 never mind £15.

I wrote a post on here a few months ago how people expect the breaking to be the cheapest part of the equation. Yet they'd pay anything for all other professionals in the business. The pesky fact of having to get that horse riding before commencing Olympic dreams is such a hassle.

Terri

 

[Surreydeb]

I paid DIY at the yard mine was at for breaking plus £34 a day for the actual breaking, split into two sessions a day.

 

[christine48]

We paid £27 per day. It's risky and time consuming.

 

[zaminda]

I charge £15 per session, any less and it is pointless. I insist the horse is insured by the owner, and that teeth are done prior to me starting work. If its grass kept it still has to be around £100 a week, its a risky business, and time consuming. I was once asked to quote for a whole time job, butwouldn't do it, some you can do in weeks, others take months.

 

[dominobrown]

I had that- before I knew anything about the horse over the phone i was asked "How long will it take?" Well how long is a piece of string!?