What to do- horses that don't/won't/can't away from home, giving up & being miserable

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Switchthehorse

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I am at my wits end

I have a 9yo mare who is the love of my life but frankly also the bane of my life, she is so complicated and deceptively so.

Basically she is either TOO intelligent or TOO stupid. I am not sure which... but she just won't/can't/doesn't do things at competitions/the next day/an hour later.

Some examples... cross country schooling, terrified of even a log, have to let her sniff it, walk up to it etc then trot into it, balloon over it several times, repeat again and again and eventually will jump it normally. Return to same venue next day/week later/month later.. like she has never seen it before - can't get her near it/over it.

Show jumping. ANY new venue, 3 x refusals within the first five or so fences. Even number one an easy simple straightforward cross pole. Take her round the same course straight away - probably just get one or two refusals - normally fillers - and she will jump the rest better. Go back the next day... will get 3 refusals again and i will have to start all over again.

I have had endless lessons and been schooling endlessly. I am not over facing her - in fact fences are getting smaller and smaller. She isn't naughty, a quick slap won't make any difference she will probably panic and have a complete paddy (have tried!), she simply has NO confidence, but we have been trying for YEARS. No matter how many times i go back to the same place - its like we have never been there before.

We have done clinics/clear rounds/lessons/smaller fences, larger fences, you name it, we have tried it.. i am quite literally at my wits end and am pretty much resigned to giving up which is completely out of character.

Anyone else got something old enough but incapable? What have you done?
 
If you've done all the usual back/teeth/tack/general health checks, perhaps she is just not a jumping horse, perhaps its just not her thing? How are you jumping other horses? Have you a lot of experience? Would you say that you are a decent, brave rider? Perhaps she is not getting confidence from you? Would it be worth having a lesson with a really good SJ rider who may be able to have a sit on her?

ps, I would generally be picking fences that can be walked over/jumped from a standstill easily so that the sniffing and inspecting is not allowed and the horse learns that forwards is the only option. I try to do that with all young horses - never let them know that turning round is an option if you possibly can. Sit there and keep asking until they go, then make a fuss of them, doesn't matter if they demolish the thing as long as they go..

Another thought is hunting or going on farm rides with confident horses and riders that will give a constant lead.
 
Goodness that does sound very trying. I have just got a new horse and he is 8 and very nervous about new things. I have started doing quite a bit of work with him in hand including desensitisation to rustly bags being rubbed all over him. I am hoping that by doing this quite consistently for a few weeks he will come to realise that he can take his confidence from me whether I am on the ground or riding. Its early days yet so I can't say if it will work!
 
Some horses don't want to jump. Why not stop putting pressure on both of you to compete?

Havecyou every hunted her?
 
Knew a girl who's horse was exactly the same and it turned out to be kissing spines. Will she happily pop a log on a hack etc?

It may be that SJ and XC she finds too high pressure? I suppose you anticipate her running out and refusing so ride defensively (don't blame you) and that sets her off and zaps her confidence?

Could you just take the pressure off her and just hack out and maybe do some showing or dressage?? Sometimes before a hack I will go to the bridle way by my field and drag a log partway across to make a little jump (always put it back after and never fully obstruct a brideway.....) could you try doing this and see if she's confident and happy to have a little play on a hack with her mates?

Sounds like a horrible situation :-( x
 
Ditto what all other posters have said. Also what about poles on the ground? In a field or arena. Walk over, trot over, canter ect. I do walking warmups on everyone over poles, some raised. They just never care when the start becoming jumps. Also how about tiny jumps on a lunge? What is she like then?

But as others have said this may not be her thing or at some stage her confidence was ruined. Could have been a small incident she doesn't forgive. Mares can be like that. Also as others have said it may be pain or vision. But if those are ruled out try poles on the ground everywhere and just use in normal stuff. You won't think jump and so maybe she can get some confidence. No matter what she does keep on trucking and doing flat work. This can be done daily. Forget jumping. Then see in a few weeks if it's got both of you a little confident and less defensive. Then if it's still a no go a career change is in the cards.

Terri
 
I don't know anything about teaching a horse to jump, or jumping one who doesn't want to, its just I'm doing lots of raised pole work with my TB at the moment to strengthen her back. Maybe thats an option?

Leading her over them so she can see you by her head and take confidence in that to start with? :rolleyes: It would fit with the desensitisation regarding the bag by OP ?
 
My mare was like that. Worse, probably eg I once fell off her doing a trot pole competition due to her spooking and napping in fright! After several years of effort she was able to cope with 12-18" courses of cross poles and uprights. But no fillers, bricks and not many spreads. She could do these tiny courses outdoors, but never indoors. After one miserable evening trying to get her to step over a raised pole in an evening indoor minimus class, I saw she was trembling and damp and I felt so sorry for her. I told her then that I would stop trying to make her jump, and that we would just do a little bit of ridden showing (which she likes, as she has friends in the ring with her.)

This mare is a dream to handle, gentle and sweet natured, and never bucks or pulls. She loves me - she wrinkles and gives little nickering noises when I arrive with her, even if I only left 5 minutes earlier. And I love her and could never have sold her. But I concluded that she was never going to be a performance pony. She just does not have the nerve, and trying to force her was horrid for both of us. I still have her - she's nearly 20 now. We hack out regularly and still do the odd show. I bought another pony to jump and all that stuff, though.
 
What is she like to jump at home? If the same I'd say she just doesn't like jumping and maybe pursue something else with her. If she is willing at home then maybe try some pairs hunter trials or something to get up her confidence then slowly increase the gap between you and lead horse? Also maybe try some fun jumping when you're not under pressure of competition to see if this alters her attitude
 
Feel for you OP.

Only thing I can suggest is getting her jumping off of somebody's lead on another horse.

So hunting? Pairs/team cross country?

And how is she loose jumping?
 
blackislegirl said:
My mare was like that. Worse, probably eg I once fell off her doing a trot pole competition due to her spooking and napping in fright! After several years of effort she was able to cope with 12-18" courses of cross poles and uprights. But no fillers, bricks and not many spreads. She could do these tiny courses outdoors, but never indoors. After one miserable evening trying to get her to step over a raised pole in an evening indoor minimus class, I saw she was trembling and damp and I felt so sorry for her. I told her then that I would stop trying to make her jump, and that we would just do a little bit of ridden showing (which she likes, as she has friends in the ring with her.)

This mare is a dream to handle, gentle and sweet natured, and never bucks or pulls. She loves me - she wrinkles and gives little nickering noises when I arrive with her, even if I only left 5 minutes earlier. And I love her and could never have sold her. But I concluded that she was never going to be a performance pony. She just does not have the nerve, and trying to force her was horrid for both of us. I still have her - she's nearly 20 now. We hack out regularly and still do the odd show. I bought another pony to jump and all that stuff, though.
Click to expand...

Thats a lovely story of someone really listening and thinking about their horse. :)
 
I had a mare on loan who was EXACTLY the same. I tried so hard for so long, as had others before me, had all the checks etc....and admitted that she just was not going to enjoy jumping away from home. This was a few years ago, and she now enjoys dressage, hacking and pleasure rides. She will be about 18/19 this year.

Not every horse enjoys jumping or competing, so you sometimes do have to admit defeat (especially if you have been trying for years) and just enjoy doing what you are both happy doing. I would have bought my loan mare if I could (uni, unemployment etc) as much as I wanted to get into low level eventing, I would have been happy to have her and only hack, as it was something that we both got so much joy out of together.
 
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That sounds so like my Welsh D!

I have now got to the stage where he will go and pootle round a small course away from home provided there are no/ very few fillers. I can only go to one venue as highly doubt he will load...

At home even if he has seen a filler before he will grind to a halt and I can sometimes get him over it from standstill or I have to bring him round again and he usually jumps it fine

Any brand new fillers result in eyes bulging grinding to a stop snorting loudly!

I did get him cheap and he is not nasty in any way and I just have to accept him as can't afford another but wouldn't sell him as hate to think where he would end up.

He has got better with lots of help from my current instructor and previous one and repetition is key.

He quite likes xc schooling although last time I went he would not go over a phesent feeder. Old yo had a point that he is usually worst at fences he can't see through.

He is very frustrating as due to being so spooky he is very careful and rarely has a pole down, he jumped round a 1m course in a competition at the yard I'm on and nearly jumped me off when he jumped massive over a jump that was at least 1m in my lesson so he can do it which makes it all the more frustrating!

He is very intelligent and sharp in that he immediately spots if a jump he has just jumped has changed
 
I usually do the annual sponsored ride that is within hacking distance and the jumps are similar each year.

This year and the previous year he jumped nearly all of them first time as long as my friend who I went with who wasn't jumping was up ahead. Went through a line of three wooden gates about 2'6" to 2'9" and he felt like he was really taking me and enjoying it, he sometimes gives that feeling at home and seems to really like dog legs/ jump off style turns and will look for the jump as long as there are no fillers!
 
Well I bought my "will never be sound better put him down" ex racehorse 9 years ago. He did come sound. I thought let's try some showing. He hated every second of being there. Did nothing bad. Just not enjoying himself at all. So left before the class which was 2 hours late anyway. As I was putting him out in his field I told him he didn't have to do that again. He owed me nothing then nor now. He is beautifully reschooled and a fun horse to ride. He just hates going anywhere. None of my other horses have problems going places. With Frank it was just different. So 9 years later he's still with me having an easy life.

Terri
 
Thanks all for your replies, sorry for delay been out on 'hot date' that reminded me why I spend every waking moment with my horses! Fail!!

Anyway said mare is fine to jump at home, ruddy loves it. Have jumped 1m30 with her no probs. loose jumping fine, xc at yard fine, take her out of comfort zone and it all goes to pieces.

I had a couple of lessons with Russ at Boomerang (legend) who said she doesn't 'trust fences' and when she learns too she will be super... I just wonder how long you keep trying.... Thing is when it clicks she bowls along ears pricked and flies everything!?

She has had everything including eyes checked so it is definitely nothing physical. And as for my experience well I am no Mary King but have been riding for 30 odd years and have had this mare for over six years so have a pretty solid partnership and I would say I am confident

I tried once to get a professional three star eventer to ride her. He got so embarrassed he couldn't get her over anything that he got angry which made her jump even less... The only way to go is the stop and sniff technique.. People have told me she needs to see and trust the fences

Maybe I should give up jumping. We do novice stressage and she has won a few hunter classes. It's just ironically when we get going we both love jumping... As I say WHEN we get going!

Several people have said to me 'never seen anything like it before' so wondered if anyone on here had. She is over 17hh and I am doing 60cm classes she can step over and she still stops!!

Aaaarrggghjhhhhhhh!!
 
Did you ever try her hunting? Sounds as though she is capable and the running with a pack and following may be her thing.. It would also get her to different venues regularly.. There are also a lot of hunts in your area!

Sorry about the not-so-hot date. I think there is something in the air today. Everyone's fed up! Early night all round needed.
 
If you haven't given hunting a go with her then I really would. If you can find a nice local hunt and maybe an understanding friend who will stick with you if she has a moment.
 
I had one a bit like this. He would jump a decent course in a lesson at home and was OK-ish over a CR type course. Would jump the moon when following another horse (XC, SJ, whatever) but simply had no interest when he was alone. I gave up eventually and just took him hunting, which had always been his preferred activity. He was happier, I was happier, result :)

I could have beaten him over the fences but where's the joy in that?

OP, I would take yours hunting and see what happens. Start with autumn hunting then go out in the main season. Find a day where you know you can get around things if need be, but you might just find hunting gets her going forward and jumping. she might simply just not be a jumping horse though...
 
A comment by Yogi Breissner springs to mind . We try 5 times at a jump and eventualy the horse clears it . What have we taught it. , to stop 4 times out of 5. In other words ,we need to reinforce the correct behaviour more . The horse needs to jump that jump another 5 timnes.I confess I am the worst for this , If i have cleared the jump ,the last thing I want is to go back and put it to the test again:o The same with loading a problem horse, we battle and eventualy load him . What we should actualy do is unload him and try again, and again........and again.
 
My horse sounds a bit like yours. He will stop and refuse and if uou put pressure on him he will drop a shoulder spin and take off. We think he had had a hard time jumping before we got him. I spent two years doing trotting poles and riding between empty wings and getting him over being whip shy. I now have eventually come to realise that he hates it and its not fair to try and make him be something he obviously isn't. Its also not fair on me as it was wrecking my confidence. I now keep him for hacking, which he enjoys as I'd worry he would be made to jump if I ever sold him on.
 
Has he ever, actually been taught to jump? I would be inclined to start at the beginning and work up! If he has jumped before you will progress rapidly, if not, you will need to take time and build his confidence....don't assume because he is older he knows how to jump!!
 
Well if the horse jumps well at home but not away from home I don't think it's the actual jumping that is the problem but the heightened tension.

Can I ask if this is now making you nervous or anxious and maybe making things even worse?

I have been in a similar position myself, i did manage to get this horse over the problem in the end and that was by making going out the norm. I started by going for lessons at my instructors twice a week for a couple of months, boxing out to different yards to go hacking, hiring schools at other yards, hiring competition venues, going to clinics at new places. Gradually I built up to actually jumping. After a few months I would hire the competition venue one day and compete there the next. We had the odd stop after that, the odd fright but we did well otherwise.

Hire XC venues but just go for a hack, riding around and past the jumps at first, try not to make a big thing out jumping itself but pop the odd log in between schooling and going for a good canter
 
I have a pony like this, and I would say - give up the jumping!

We found going to the same venue and jumping the same jumps every week helped, but as soon as we went somewhere new, or the venue bought a new filler, his eyes would come out on stalks and he would stop.

Also jumping very small fences made him worse - he was more suspicious, as he then wasn't sure if it was a fence or a snake in the grass and he would look down at it, so weight on the forehand, rider tipped forward = even more likely to stop!

He once won a chase me charlie where the final fence was 4' so he was quite capable - we did a lot of chase me charlies after that as he had a lead over the first jump (if daughter got in quick and followed someone!) and then the jump didn't change so he kept jumping - result.

But when a friend's daughter broke her finger on him because he stopped at a tiny fence (new venue), we gave up.

You just can't change some horses and it sounds like you have tried and done everything correctly. Horses for courses.
 
Echo Bravo said:
And how long did it take her to realise the pony was shaking and damp, months weeks
Click to expand...

That was actually the first time I had seen her be so obviously frightened. Tension yes, we had that every time we tried to jump indoors (or do dressage, if we were out of sight of the collecting ring.) Like most folk, I was having lessons, and getting advice on the lines of 'keep trying, take her our more often, be positive', as many are saying here. I agree with the advice, and it would work with most horses. But my darling old girl is not like most horses. For one thing, having a lead from another horse never made any difference to her desire to cross a scary obstacle. Taking one bit of advice, I tried an 18" novice pairs HT. My friend on a reliable gee (who was friends with my mare) jumped everything beautifully. My girl followed dutifully, spooked at nearly every jump judge out in the fields, and would not go within 5m of any of the jumps! So I knew she would never be a XC pony a couple of years before I gave up on jumping full stop.

With hindsight, though, I agree with Echobravo that I should probably have given up trying to jump her earlier.
 
Thanks again all.

I did take her hunting, we lasted about 10 minutes, her head exploded, she bronced and reared and bronced and reared and eventually threw me and disappeared off to the horizon convinced that she was supposed to be at the front, she cleared a couple of hedges and then brought herself down on some barbed wire, the hunt stopped for 10 mins and finally caught her, they brought her back to me i got back on and the same thing happened again.

A friend pointed out to me the other day that she isn't very 'independent'. I know you shouldn't humanise horses but she really is a complex character. She is a big bolshy mare (hence the looks can be deceptive comment) but if you take her out of her comfort zone and/or ask her to do something on her own its like she loses the plot, its like red mist descends and she doesn't know what to do. So an example would be she can hack around the farm i keep her on fine if there are other horses in the field around her. If there aren't any I can't get her to go anywhere, she just gets stuck... even to the field she is turned out in - if i try and ride her ('hack her') there she just goes into meltdown!! But ONLY if there are no other horses around... put one in a field she doesnt even know 1/2 a mile away and she is fine... She can reverse for england, literally for miles, she gets all flustered and there is no reasoning with her. She has a mean bronc (proper head between knees stuff) when she loses the plot, but this is getting less and less over time.

I wouldn't say I am nervous of her, have owned her over 6 years so we know each other pretty well, and I am a confident rider.

I feel like if I keep going and she is not hurt/injured/too upset then eventually it will click, but wondered if there were people who this had happened to... sounds like there probably isn't ... i don't think i am mentally scarring her as such, once we get over the fences she looks all pleased with herself. I agree too small is probably a mistake as she does tend to jump better when they are bigger, but its a catch 22 as you want them to be small enough so she can get over albeit disgracefully from a stand still. She has scope, she is 100% healthy, and as I say at home she is a fab jumper... its just away from home!

I think i will plod along for a bit and keep going and see what happens!
 
We had a pony like this. He was perfectly capable of jumping big and well but hated the arena. Would jump the first few fine then stop and nothing anyone did would get him over that fence. Was nappy and difficult in the school.

But he loved hunting and that was his saving grace as he was extremely safe and sensible and jumped everything. He liked being part of the herd.

Could someone with more experience hunt her?
 
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