what to do..& is there a safe time they can't get pregnant?

SaharaS

SaharaS

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I know this probably sounds stupid & weird even for me, but I'm sure you'll understand. Having spoken to two vets re a bitch, I am now thoroughly confused so I thought you lovely lot would be a better bet for some straight advice!

I have found a non spayed bitch locally that has been advertised online, I am concerned about her safety as the owner will only respond by text or email & its always that she is 'too busy with work to reply...will later' later never comes. She didn't answer any of my questions, but simply replied 'when can you collect her'. the whole situation makes me feel uneasy, if she really wanted the best then surely any q's would not be a problem..she never answers the phone, it always diverts straight to answer-the dog has been advertised for possibly up to 6 months, but no surprise she's still there as the lady is shocking at replying so ofcourse people are weary. She did ask me about myself so I told her what I would want to know if it we me & was honest & truthful about my boy etc & that a meet on neutral ground would be essential but happy to fit in with her etc.

I am sure you all know of 'free' 'offers' having horrible consequences and dogs ending up as bait dogs etc, from what I know of the bitch she ticks enough boxes to be ideal for the evil scummers that partake in such horriffic things. we have been corresponding for over a month maybe 6 weeks trying to get info or a meet but the poor dog is left home for long hours & sounds very unsocialized & reactive. plus with her breed this is not ideal for her safety the way she is beign advertised.

The only one snip of info I have is when I explained my boy is entire in a text and would she be happy to spay her/have her spayed by new owner first- she replied yes fine. I then tried to get season info so I could go on 3 months from then till safe to spay...if the lady is telling the truth, then the dog is in season now & just coming to the end.-no more info than that re dates etc..which worries me if that is the truth or that she simply knows that would be a clever answer.

I am more than happy to pay for the op if she keeps her till its done, but I feel I could pay then get stitched up because of how unreliable the lady seems. I can get a friend who owns kennels & is heavily involved in rescue to take the bitch but I would have to drive 1.5hrs to collect her & 1.5 hours home .. then 2.5 hours from my home to drop her off..so my simple question(finally!) is....is there a safe period between the end of a season & the three months later when it is safe to spay her that she could be here with me & there not be a worry - one vet was fine with it after three weeks from now..other nearly chocked & spluttered & said no don't risk it. How would you manage that-they are never left alone & always with me, but I do need sleep!;-)Crating & separation would be hard but I suppose possible, tho not ideal for the poor dog and would certainly not want to do it for more than short periods...

I am looking for a rescue & the ones I have shortlisted in kennels are safe...but this poor girl has me really worried. I really am not sure what to do. I don't even know if they will get on. Please do not suggest neutering my boy as although this would be the simple quick fix, my vet (and two others) have said no for him due to his past- I agree with them, so please no shooting me! It just worries me to the bone ..what would you do? Not sure I can just walk away.....tho I feel there is possibly something not 100% right

Thank you very much :-)
 
Bitches cannot get pregnant unless in season but some bitches can have silent seasons that an inexperienced wner can miss. If you'd like to pm me the advert or a link I'll see what I can find out but it does seem odd being advertised for 6 monthsmay be a scam and people from further out are being asked for deposits.
 
Hi..thank you..thats what I always thought..we kept our two spaniel bitches & entire rough collie together for life, from pups(staggered ages) and just kept them appart for the three weeks ish that we're 'dangerous' we never once had an accident or emergency doing it that way..which is why I couldn't understand why the second vet freaked out so much -tho they were very much of the 'bring in asap & spay' yet I thought that was very dangerous/lots of risks.

I have already tried to get info from her with the help of others..my Mum, boyfriend, bf's parents & a lady in rescue. She just clams up if you ask her & rather than any scam, I genuinely think she is useless not responding. She was more than happy for me to just collect the poor dog with no money changing hands.. you can try if you want(very kind to offer) but she's really very uncooperative-I think she will have to be a kid gloves kind of person so as not to spook her..purely for the sake of the dog. I made a point of saying i understand it must be very hard for her so no pressure & just because we speak on the phone, doesn't mean it has to be an imminent hand over or anything...I just feel so bad for the dog if she's that busy-I know how mine was affected by being lft for so long (12 hrs a day) before coming to me...
 
I think in your situation I would walk away and find something else. It sounds like you've been very considerate and that this woman is just a lost cause who is wasting your time.

There are plenty of other dogs out there who need homes - it sounds like she might be a Staffy or a Bully breed type? Just going on:
from what I know of the bitch she ticks enough boxes to be ideal for the evil scummers that partake in such horriffic things
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There are plenty of those at Battersea!
 
SaharaS said:
....is there a safe period between the end of a season & the three months later when it is safe to spay her that she could be here with me & there not be a worry - one vet was fine with it after three weeks from now..other nearly chocked & spluttered & said no don't risk it.
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Just to clarify, the bitch cannot become pregnant once she has finished her season.

With regards to spaying....it seems to be the 'thing' to tell people to spay 3 months after the end of a season - this is purely on the ASSUMPTION that the bitch cycles every six months because it is safest to spay when the bitch is half way between seasons as that is when there is the least blood in the uterus and makes the operation easiest/safest. However, many bitches do NOT cycle every six months, which is why second vet was probably having apoplexy at the suggestion of spaying 3 weeks after end of season.
 
s4sugar said:
I'll have a look but if you have back up from a lady in rescue why not just fetch her?
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Thank you will pm in a mo - because its a risk if they don't get on -my boy can't be left so I'd have a tough journey on my own with no way of crating in my truck(physically cannot get one in that is big enough for the breed...tho can easily get 4 sheps in the back seat or two comfy laid down-bit of an ask to get anyone else to help with an unknown dog in their car, tho I could poss get mum to babysit my boy...

SpringArising said:
I think in your situation I would walk away and find something else. It sounds like you've been very considerate and that this woman is just a lost cause who is wasting your time.

There are plenty of other dogs out there who need homes - it sounds like she might be a Staffy or a Bully breed type? Just going on:

There are plenty of those at Battersea!
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Thank you ..she's a GSD - as is mine. I've several to go look at in rescue with my friend, tho waiting for them to be spayed..been h/c'd and just waiting now, but this girl was available before these appeared...they are 'safe'...can't save them all I guess...

amymay said:
I agree.
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Thanks...will see if I can get a back up plan in place...(see my reply above) I have text her twice today to ask how long she is happy to hold on to her for or if she needs out asap-sorry to ask as know you are busy with work but very hard to help with such minimal info:-)..and then in second message when no reply simply put that If we can arrange to meet & they get on I could have her in 3 weeks when 'safely' over her season, if she needs her gone before then have friend who can help short term..and could she pls let me know either way as have some dogs needing fostering that I have been asked to help (which is true)..still no reply and she had promised to reply to all my questions in email by this weekend which I doubt will happen.the bits that slip out are 'doesn't like being chased by young children...'has something happened? poor dog

Alec Swan said:
OP, your second paragraph; Walk away and leave the dog where it is.

Alec.
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it worries me that by not saying anything, she isn't technically lying or hiding anything...it could be innocent but would I really want to put my boy at risk..never. How can you help someone whos reply is always, too busy, will reply later & never does.. and isn't directly cagey, but isn't forthcoming...Thanks Alec...sensible as ever! I think I will leave it there now..if she gets back to me fine, but not wasting any more sleep...:-(

Thank you all x
 
gunnergundog said:
Just to clarify, the bitch cannot become pregnant once she has finished her season.

With regards to spaying....it seems to be the 'thing' to tell people to spay 3 months after the end of a season - this is purely on the ASSUMPTION that the bitch cycles every six months because it is safest to spay when the bitch is half way between seasons as that is when there is the least blood in the uterus and makes the operation easiest/safest. However, many bitches do NOT cycle every six months, which is why second vet was probably having apoplexy at the suggestion of spaying 3 weeks after end of season.
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Thank you for clarifying that:-) Is there anyway they can tell before sticking the knife in? I was wondering if a urine sample or bloods might give a clue-and am very likely to sound very silly but what with womens pregnancy test kits being able to detect testicular cancer & all that, I was hoping there would be a way of them knowing more from a simple test?
 
I think you're right not to lose any more sleep over this dog. At best this lady sound pretty hopeless, at worst, it smacks of a scam of some sort although, if she's not asking for money, I don't know where the scam is buried.

The sad truth is, you can't help every dog every time and although she's tugged on your heart strings, you need to step back.

To not be given the opportunity for your current dog and her to meet first could be asking for problems. She might be getting rid because the dog is dog aggressive (people are shockingly unreliable with the truth when giving up their animals).
 
SaharaS said:
Thank you for clarifying that:-) Is there anyway they can tell before sticking the knife in? I was wondering if a urine sample or bloods might give a clue-and am very likely to sound very silly but what with womens pregnancy test kits being able to detect testicular cancer & all that, I was hoping there would be a way of them knowing more from a simple test?
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They can certainly tell by a simple test when the bitch is ovulating.....a test used by many breeders in order to ascertain when to take said bitch to stud dog. However, I simply don't know the answer to your question of whether they can test to see when a bitch is half way between seasons. I guess it's a question for your vet maybe or someone like Aru (a vet) on here perhaps. Would be interested in the answer.

I have never spayed a bitch without her having at least 3 seasons so that I have an idea of where she is....of no help to your situation however and I doubt if you will get a history from the owner by the sound of it.

It may sound hard to say, but you can't save every dog and sometimes you have to walk away. Only you can know your skills/facilities at your disposal/emotional strength/financial depth/access to support etc.

Hope you make the right decision....whatever that may be.
 
Deb & Gunnerdog, thank you both...I think the risk to my dog from her non answering is too much risk...also the thought of a meet to walk....is she going to be there after i drive so far and also...say I had a friend come along incase owner can't find time for the walk on neutral ground...is she going to allow the dog back in if she doesn't get on with mine? too many ifs & buts...at least with my friend in kennels, her dogs will be able to safely and gradually be introduced the right way to mine, then a foster period...just incase...I would be devastated if something went wrong...who's to say the dog is 100% hers to give away(hence the awkardness in answering) and what if she was stolen or she's planning to announce her stolen after she goes for insurance claim or something-best stop thinking scenarios here & just walk away..would love to know more on the testing side tho if anyone can enlighten, I am genuinely interested anyway even if I didn't help this poor girl.thanks all again xx
 
OP if you want her just go and get her, the risk of spaying when in full season is a slightly increased risk of a bleed, it is only a slight increase in risk. pick her up get her speyed and keep her separate form your make till the stitches are out. It sounds like she is at more risk of ending up in the wrong hands than the risk of speying surgery regardless of where she is in her fertility cycle
 
Twiggy thank you - I feel a bit sick now..thank you S4S for spottign something I missed earlier..there were previously no ads from the seller, but it appears while she is too busy for this dog(who reading between the lines of the ad & knowing the breed has been nicely messed up by her) she is advertising looking for another very specific breed (designer of course) :'( whoever did the other thread wishing to tazer Cesar Millan...please may I borrow the tazer after you've finished with it...
 
twiggy2 said:
OP if you want her just go and get her, the risk of spaying when in full season is a slightly increased risk of a bleed, it is only a slight increase in risk. ……...
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Sahara, if it matters to you THAT much, then ^^^^ this. Just do it, and speak with your vet. Two years ago we had my FiL's collie bitch spayed, whilst she was newly in pup. It worked a treat and the poor little sod's now been successfully re-homed to another HHOer, where she's very well settled I might add!

Alec.
 
Sahara, I am with those who advise just doing it. Some people are quite genuine but not good communicators. If I may say so, your postings are not exactly short and to the point! I realise that is just a measure of your concern and you sound a really nice person. But try again with a short message requiring a single yes or no answer from the dog owner stating that you need to finalise one way or the other as soon as possible. If there is no reply within 48 hours, walk away. Oh, and for a rescue, do not hand over any money.
 
Alec Swan said:
Sahara, if it matters to you THAT much, then ^^^^ this. Just do it, and speak with your vet. Two years ago we had my FiL's collie bitch spayed, whilst she was newly in pup. It worked a treat and the poor little sod's now been successfully re-homed to another HHOer, where she's very well settled I might add!

Alec.
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Ah lovely to hear you had a success story there Alec..I am waiting to hear back from the kennels (attached to the rescue) she is more than happy to help & is trying to find someone to help me on the transport side -about to post on my fb to see if anyone can assist,even if its lending a crate or two then my bf is happy to go with me with his car...

Thistle said:
Can you be 100% sure that she hasn't been mated this season, if not then you probably need to spey asap.
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to be honest I think she is so retentive with any info that may or may not be held against her, that I strongly suspect she wouldn't tell me - would be straight to vets on arrival to check chip etc & then look at other things too-lady at kennels would be exactly the same so either way she will be safe from all angles. I just googled the designer breed she is advertising for & half tempted to do a brief email to all the sellers to warn them....BUT...if they are breeding such a ridiculous mix then I think they wouldn't be the sort to care of much other than the money at 2k a pop :-( I WISH i had never noticed her! still nothing back from the 'owner' but will update as soon as anything happens/progress-anyone near me willing to help then please get in touch:-)
 
Dry Rot said:
Sahara, I am with those who advise just doing it. Some people are quite genuine but not good communicators. If I may say so, your postings are not exactly short and to the point! I realise that is just a measure of your concern and you sound a really nice person. But try again with a short message requiring a single yes or no answer from the dog owner stating that you need to finalise one way or the other as soon as possible. If there is no reply within 48 hours, walk away. Oh, and for a rescue, do not hand over any money.
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Thank you Dry Rot..haha ..I know...um short doesn't come easily to me when I'm here as its good to get it all out!..but at least you have all my thought process here!

Don't worry all my texts have been only 1 or 2 text pages max & simple as poss...honest! The replies I have had have been well worded & good vocab, correct grammar & long words etc so I am pretty sure she is not unintelligent & good at communicating when she wants to...like with the season dates.

I think looking at the average 2k price tag of the next dog she wants (and these were not young pups)where she states 'will travel & willing to pay' could be the true reason she is stalling. She is simply bored after messing her last accessory up but hanging out for some money if any. I made it clear I was making the 'offer' of a good forever home only from the start..oh & don't worry...I will make sure there is only one cheque left in the book & that it is already made out to PDSA or a GSD rescue...
 
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