what to do... welfare issue

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whattodo

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hi guys, I really need some outside opinions on weather or not to report some horses. and proberely other animals.. heres the story.

The owner of the above is a close friend, ive known her many years, have liveried with her, lived with her and gone out with her in a social way.
she is not a bad person and really does love her animals but heres the problem,
she has to many and imo can not/does not look after them well enough, she currently has a few horses that are in a god awful state they really are the sort you would se ein a field and report which is what I feel i need to do the winters coming and the horses will be stood in 18 inches of mud with not enough feed and will just get worse.

most of her issues is money its not ignorance. she does i think know the horses need to look better but just accepts that they are skinny. by skinny i meen ribs, hips showing dullness all over etc.

she also has other animals that just keep flipping breeding, and now i see via fb theres a rumour of her getting shall we say.. the sort of mamal you would find in a zoo.. she has gone through all the correct licencing etc. but i fear for these exotic animals.

what do i do, leave it? or bite the bullet and report? I dont think she would link it to me, but what stops me currently is i know how hurt she will be the day an officer turns up.
 
If she's a close friend are you not able to say something to her and suggest she do something about it because she is clearly struggling and at the end of the day it is the animals who will suffer. A friend should surely be able to say that??
 
What a horrible situation to be in.

If it were me I would report, she may be upset but what about those poor animals who are suffering - would not be able to sleep at night knowing their condition and that I could do something to alleveate it for them.
 
ive tried that when i visited last, one of the mares had lost all its hair in places, as had a few of the others, my normal... P looks a tad skinny fell on the normal well im feedign her but we have no grass, ive not visited since as it drives me mad, but there was some thing that kicked of on fb, that ment its just brought it all up and fresh, then when i went for nosy as pictures the horses were.. well shall we say the person throwing the mud about actully had a point.
 
She sounds like a collector to me, and these kinds of people see no wrong in what they are doing. Talking to her may have the same kind of effect as banging your head quite hard on a fairly solid wall.
If she is finacially unable to adequately care for them, the best thing you can do for the horses is call the BHS and explain your concerns. They may not be able to help with the other animals, but they are far better at implementing a plan if needed than the RSPCA.
 
Report it.
It sounds like a situation where getting involved personally is going to get messy, this could slow the whole process down and you may need to involve an outside agency at a later point anyway.
Once she has had a visit you will be able to support her to make it right.

Good luck
 
Double_choc_lab said:
If she's hoping to get an "exotic" animal surely there has to be a license issued and that would need an inspection?
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Depends on the animal and the council concerned. Believe it or not, the dog warden is responsible in most cases for approving/denying a DWA licence. Costs hugely vary too depending on what council you are applying to.
Inspection again varying, species depending. venomous snakes would have far greater restrictions placed upon them than say a small primate and therefore the spot checks.
Huge room for improvement in the law TBH
 
martlin said:
That might be a tad radical thought, but have you actually offered to help?
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yes managed to get her to stop feeding bran and get the horses on some barley, but she is very old fasioned in her ways, she also decided to sell some of the young stock and offered to help her with ads etc.
also from my old days of being there managed to get her to use wormers, although not sure how often they get used!

other than giving her money im a little stuck .
 
whattodo said:
most of her issues is money its not ignorance. she does i think know the horses need to look better but just accepts that they are skinny. by skinny i meen ribs, hips showing dullness all over etc. .
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whattodo said:
she also has other animals that just keep flipping breeding, and now i see via fb theres a rumour of her getting shall we say.. the sort of mamal you would find in a zoo.. she has gone through all the correct licencing etc. but i fear for these exotic animals.
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.

If her issues are money, as you say, and not ignorance then I cannot see how she can even be thinking about getting in exotic animals. That to me shouts ignorance not money issues.

I think you know in your heart the right thing to do. You may feel bad but I would feel worse if I let animals suffer than worrying about the hurt feelings of a human.

Good luck, I really hope you make the right decision.
 
If you feel you are not able to speak to her about it due to your relationship I would report it instead anyway.
It is great that these animals have someone (you) who understands that they are hungry and suffering, and its important that you act on this soon because as you quite rightly said, winter is coming and its going to be a very tough one. your friend would not have to know if you would rather she didnt and you would have a clear concience that you did the right thing.
The fact that she is planning to have exotic animals would worry me too, they have not evolved to survive in this climate and lack of adequate living conditions, company, food, care etc could lead to more suffering of already vunerable animals.
If she does not see that her animals are not recieveing adequate care or put a stop to the breeding and is planning to adopt more when she cannot afford what she has perhaps it is ignorance...?
 
I think you perhaps need to think about the poor animals in her 'care' rather than how she will feel when the authorities turn up. I can understand that she is a friend and that you dont want to be linked etc but you would feel just as awful if any of those animals did die or suffered. And indiscriminate breeding is just irresponsible. I did feel sorry for your friend because many people end up with too many animals that they really cannot afford to keep and then you mention that she is getting an exotic one - well in my eyes that money could have been better spent on the ones already in her care.

I hope I havent offended and it is all too easy to comment when we really dont know all the details but I do hope that you consider carefully your decision and make what is the 'right' one.
 
We knew someone similar. Her flat was full of animals, about 13 cats, two dogs, rabbits, hamsters, rats, alsorts then she has about 7 ponies who were being kept on some waste land. We reported her, she was a 'collector', loved animals but didn't realise that by not doing her horses and ponies everyday she never knew what condition they were in and the only time she saw them was if they had escaped on to the main road. One day they all disappeared out of the field because the RSPCA were 'consulting' with her and she didn't like it (she was also convinced nothing was wrong and she was such an idiot she believed she knew everything). They turned up near my ponies in afield tucked up behind a huge crop field a long way back from the roads. I only saw them when the crops were cut and left my daughter with my ride while I ran up the long track to look at them...it was disgusting.

Four days later someone phoned me to say the one horse had been pts by the RSPCA and they had left her two little ones, they had pixie feet and were full of worms. No one could get my so called friend so I went to her flat and she practically slammed the door in my face saying she was going up to feed them all later and it was Bullsh**. I took my sister and there was what looked like a pony dead in the field with her two little ones. On closer inspection it was her 17hh TB but she was so emmaciated it looked like a pony.

Since then I have never spoke to her. The RSPCA got her to worm and get the ponies feet done and they have watched her from a distance but have not been able to do anymore. In the meatime she has now accquired a further four ponies, and I dread to think what they will end up like. I believe some of the house animals have gone but no one other than enviromental health have been there for those poor creatures.

I hope you are able to get more done about your friend than we all were.
 
i would report it too, i have done in the past to a family member.

if you contact the BHS welfare department and tell them your concerns then they can go out and investigate, if they see a problem they will discuss it all with her such as bedding/field management/feed/worming and so on.
 
you are all right, a visit wouldnt do to much harm, there is the local rspca centre on the same lane as her.. before any of you think OMG... they are at tthe bottom she is at the top its a dead end they have no reason to go up there.

so who shall i approach to report, WHW or bhs..
 
whattodo said:
you are all right, a visit wouldnt do to much harm, there is the local rspca centre on the same lane as her.. before any of you think OMG... they are at tthe bottom she is at the top its a dead end they have no reason to go up there.

so who shall i approach to report, WHW or bhs..
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A visit wouldnt do much harm no but the RSPCA no longer focus on helping and advising people. All they want to do is prosecute. If the animals look that bad they will get taken away and she will get dragged through the courts causing her an endless amount of stress and may end in her being banned from keeping all animals. Not sure how WHW or the BHS act, they may be better options.

You may feel the RSPCA is the right action for her, who knows, but really do and try and think of alternatives before you go down this route as it could potentially ruin her life. Would she re-home these horses if she can find homes for them? Sell some? Find loaners/sharers?

I do think it crazy that she is getting an exotic animal when she can no longer look after the ones she has. Is she planning to breed them or somethng?
 
You ought to report it, anf i think you know that in your heart of hearts. You can explain th situation, and I certainly don't think welfare agengies ever say "Ms X has reported you". When she gets her visit, you can be a good friend and support her, and she need never know. You'll need to be very discreet, and calm about it. Sometimes, when someone is struggling, they cannot bring themselves to admit it, either to themselves or friends. So when something IS reported, it is taken out of their hands, and is often a huge relief.
 
Groom42 said:
You ought to report it, anf i think you know that in your heart of hearts. You can explain th situation, and I certainly don't think welfare agengies ever say "Ms X has reported you". When she gets her visit, you can be a good friend and support her, and she need never know. You'll need to be very discreet, and calm about it. Sometimes, when someone is struggling, they cannot bring themselves to admit it, either to themselves or friends. So when something IS reported, it is taken out of their hands, and is often a huge relief.
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I wouldnt even give your name if I were you, from my experience if it gets as far as court it will be written in the inspectors notes as to who rang them.
 
I personaly would call WHW, I think you can remain anon, if it went to court they would just say they visited as a result of a call from a concerned member of the public.

Sounds like this lady has mental health issues, its surprisingly common, like hoarders, they believ that what they are doing is perfectly normal and its everyone else who is wrong. I am dealing with a case at the moment where the person believes they are running a wildlife hospital. You would not believe the state of the house.
 
It is quite clear that your friend has too many animals to look after or care for properly.

Unfortuntately the animals will continue to suffer if the owner is short of funds and time.

I would contact World Horse Welfare on their telephone Helpline and they will send one of their inspectors to investigate the horses in question.

Fortunately the recent changes in the Animal Welfare Legislation has improved and it is easier to prosecute people that fail to look after animals correctly.

I would also contact the RSPCA on their Helpline about the other animals.
 
bexwarren24 said:
A visit wouldnt do much harm no but the RSPCA no longer focus on helping and advising people. All they want to do is prosecute. If the animals look that bad they will get taken away and she will get dragged through the courts causing her an endless amount of stress and may end in her being banned from keeping all animals. Not sure how WHW or the BHS act, they may be better options.

You may feel the RSPCA is the right action for her, who knows, but really do and try and think of alternatives before you go down this route as it could potentially ruin her life. Would she re-home these horses if she can find homes for them? Sell some? Find loaners/sharers?

I do think it crazy that she is getting an exotic animal when she can no longer look after the ones she has. Is she planning to breed them or somethng?
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I would just like to point out that the course of action no matter who you called, RSPCA/WHW/BHS would be the same, if on arrival the horses conditions are an outright case of neglect then yes a court case would ensue, as the RSPCA are the only ones who are willing to invest in these then the other organisations would just pass it to them to deal. Whereas if on arrival things are looking less than ideal, but not an immediate case, then all of the organisations would work toward/with the owner rectifying the situation.

I think people seem to belive the RSPCA go in guns blazing and you only have to not feed your dog once and the RS will have it removed!!! In actual fact a case will only ensue if a vet is willing to support a case of suffering. Which a vet will only do if they can scientifically prove it.

With regard to you saying anything versus reporting it, I too would try yourself first if you feel it will do any good, but if you do say something and then report her, she'll have a pretty good idea who called!! But that aside you shouldn't let your friendship be placed above the animals needs and if you feel things are that bad then I would probably report too.

Now with regards as to who, BHS officers are voluteers and as such do not get the same level of training as say a WHW/RSPCA officer does, that aside they do good work, but my call would be to one of the latter, WHW are very good, as are RSPCA but with the latter it's rather hit and miss as to whether you would get a 'horse' based officer, but you say there are animals breeding at home and conditions here aren't ideal either, so if this is the case then they maybe the better people to be involved, they can also help with neutering etc. But if it's just the horses then possibly try the WHW??
 
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