What to do with a horse who DOESN'T want to retire? (bit long, sorry!)

[SuzySue]

Hi, I’m new on here but have been reading these forums for quite a while on and off. After reading JustHelen’s post about the dilemma of whether to retire her horse (need some advice RE possibly retiring horse) it has finally prompted me to join as I have the opposite dilemma. Your views and suggestions would be greatly appreciate. Apologies for the length of this post!

I have owned my 21 year old ex-advanced eventer for 3 years now who I bought as a happy hacker but ended up getting back into showjumping with him (after a 10 year layoff from riding altogether!) and last year qualified him for the Trailblazers Final

6 weeks before the Final he did a tendon and has not done anything since.

Within 2 weeks of box rest he was getting seriously dangerous so, because of his age, I went for quality of life over confinement and turned him back out.

Over a year later he is now more or less sound although has a thickened tendon, but they were never that brilliant in the first place tbh, old wounds I guess. He gallops round the field with the rest of them having a ball, in fact, it’s usually him that starts them all off.

I’ve been hacking him round the school on and off but we both find this boring. After a further consultation with the vet, he decided he was barely lame and his comment was “I’d take him hunting on that!” However, he never really gave me a straight answer as to what I could and couldn’t do with him or whether he should just be finally retired, so I have since changed him to the vets I use for my other horses although they have yet to treat him. I left him with the original vet because he knew his history, although as I had to remind him every time he came out I was getting the feeling he never remembered any of it anyway!!

Have tried hacking him out but he’s got a bit silly on the roads, although I am sure this is him trying it on, as he’s fine once we get into the forest and he never used to be a problem. But it bothers me, so I won’t hack him out; I even considered boxing him the 1 minute (by vehicle) journey to the forest so that I could hack him out but haven’t actually got round to doing this.

Last week I watched a friend compete on Sunday morning, then cos I was bored of not being able to ride cos my other horse is currently on box rest (nothing as major as what Art has done!), I saddled him up and popped over a couple of small jumps in the school a few times. He absolutely loved it and wouldn’t stay in trot, despite me trying to keep it gentle! There haven’t been any ill effects afterwards either. Unlike JustHelen’s horse he clearly doesn’t want to retire and I think he hates to see the others going out most weekends without him. When I took him for a saddle fitting a few months ago he practically leapt into the trailer with cries of “at last, I’m going somewhere again!”.

My dilemma is, is it ok to take him to the occasional show, or even just clear round, so he feels like he is still doing something. He is on no medication but wondered about giving him “No Bute” rather than the real thing if it’s gonna be long term? Should I give this to him anyway even though he’s not lame, or only afterwards if he seems a bit sore? How high should he jump? My limit is 2’9 but anything lower and he just launches over it anyway; 2’6 perhaps? How fit does he really need to be for the occasional round of showjumps? Obviously he’ll never be fit like the others. I don’t want to be cruel by possibly hurting him, but I don’t want him to feel left out either. I see so many joggers limping along, but they still want to do it anyway! Is this any different? He has a home for life so having another few months off after a blast one weekend is not a problem from my point of view.

Thanks for reading this far and your comments greatly appreciated.

 

[popsicle]

I would let your normal vet have a look at him before you decide to do any more than a steady hack on him. I take your point about human joggers, but they don't have someone on their back. I'm so pleased he has a home for life and I'm sure you will have a good few years riding him (As advised by your vet) Good luck

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I guess it's either let him do a bit and have a happy 21yr old with a quality of life that he enjoys ... and risk the consequences. Or stop him doing anything and have him miserable and depressed and with a poorer quality of life (in his eyes) but lessen the chances he'll damage himself further. Not easy SS.

If it was me, I think I'd aim for a compromise. Do enough slower and steadier work (might take a fair bit of persuading him, but it can be done) to keep him active. Then assess the situation on a daily basis. You know what they say: the aim of modern medicine is to add LIFE to YEARS not just YEARS to LIFE.

 

[AmyMay]

Why are people so anti bute?? As you say in your post - at 21 it's about quality of life, not quantity.

Sounds like he's a super fellow with a real zest for life. Why not have him on a low dosage of Bute (well Danillon actually) and enjoy doing as much as he wants to do.

Lucky, lucky horse to have such a wonderful home.

 

[brighteyes]

You have the absolute measure of him, sound like a very responsible and intelligent owner - go for it. If he enjoys it, then why not?!! My spavined lad still hurls himself about and I rarely (despite being given the green light by my vet) administer Danilon as he really doesn't appear to need it (yet). It's always a reserve option or standby if we really do push it one day, but I rarely give it a second thought.

My opinion - go for it!

 

[mtj]

I'm in a similar position with my companion/light hack.

he is an over height connie who competed in WHP at high level, as well as ODE, show jumping etc.

he has bone spavin and dodgy breathing (if not carefully managed), but he has no intention of slowing down.

we've done the xrays etc, tried the joint injections (failed) so he gets a danilon a day. last year when i bought him he was so obese my vets ordered me to ride him in walk for an hour a day. pain wise, I think this was too much for him - he was reluctant to let me mount. but provided i ride him a max of every other day, he seems a happy little chap.
he is about 15.2 and I weigh under 9 1/2 dressed and booted.

obviously he has the same saddlery checks, 3 mth physio, very experienced remedial farrier as my other horse. I also use a massage pad on him regularly.

now the "naughty" bit. well, like most ex competition horses, he is a bright hack. our compromise is lettin him canter up one steepish local hill - his brakes are not brilliant. Very, very occasionally he is allowed to pop a few small jumps on a good surfaced arena with an experienced, balanced show jumper on board - not me

why not get a scan done on that tendon, and take it from there.

 

[kerilli]

tbh i'd have him scanned before starting competing... it can look alright, it can feel alright to the touch, the horse can think it's good enough to charge around on in the field (well, he would, until it goes horribly wrong) but IF it scans terribly - i.e. huge lesions, more black than white - then it just won't stand up to cantering and jumping work and you run the risk of it just suddenly breaking down completely... and they can go badly enough that the entire tendon explodes apart and the fetlock joint is totally unsupported and on the floor. obviously, only 1 thing to do then.

obviously if it goes less than that, you can just rest him again, but adrenalin is a fantastic pain-masker and a horse can carry on for quite a while, doing more damage.
it is very difficult when it's a horse who obviously LOVES his work and doesn't enjoy just being a horse in a field. if you are prepared for him to possibly have a bit of fun with you and then the chance of curtains, then go ahead. it is about quality of life, and if you judge that he'd rather have fun for an indeterminable time than 5 years bored in the field, go for it. at some point you are going to have to make the horrible decision, are you prepared for the fact that it might happen very suddenly, and in public, if his tendon does go?
sorry if that is a worst-case-scenario, but unfortunately i have a lot of experience with tendons. with mine, after a significant tendon injury i've made the decision to ease off and they are just hacks and dr horses from then on. one i lent to a friend, she convinced me he was fit enough and the legs felt good enough, did 1 pn on him and he broke down again, fortunately not totally, but it proved that however much he wanted to do it (and he LOVED competing) his legs just wouldn't stand up to it.

very best of luck whatever you do.
re: hacking to the woods, can you ask someone on a quiet one to go with you and go parallel down the road if it's a short distance, so they shield your lad from the traffic and act as a buffer if requd?

 

[SO1]

If he likes go out to shows but you are worried about jumping him perhaps you could do veteran classes - these are very competitive now and might give you both a bit of something to aim for and enjoy.

 

[Nari]

I'd keep it as low key as I could while keeping him happy. Where's the kindness in retiring him if he's going to be miserable? Let him go out & enjoy life & if it means his life is slightly shorter well, quality over quantity.

Re some sort of painkiller, I'd keep it for if he looks a little sore. At least that way you can monitor how he's coping, particularly if he's the sort whose enthusiasm will override sense.

I like SO1's idea of veteran classes. Also you may find that if you gradually tail off his work & outings he takes it better than abruptly stopping them.

 

[SuzySue]

Thank you all for your positive replies, I was worried I would be thought of as a bad owner to even be considering competing him again!

I do plan to get him scanned at some point in the near future. Having just bought a new one, funds are a bit depleted at the mo, and his front legs are excluded from his insurance by now, but as I have 2 jobs my account should soon start to look a bit healthier! The vet I have “sacked” scanned him with a mobile scanner so we have no permanent record of his injury. The vets I have used for the others for the last year are state of the art and I usually take the horses to them; their scans are all on computer and can be compared against each other, etc. They’re gonna have a whale of a time with his pics

However, I figured, even if it all looks relatively ok they still won’t advise me to jump him, even occasionally, as it’s not vets’ policy to agree to the risk of possible re-injury is it really. Also why I thought about No Bute, if they won’t give me anything to help him.

His quality of life doing nothing is still probably way over what some horses have, out 24/7 at the mo, in overnight in the winter, we have tons of grass, small private yard with no interference, 4 permanent friends, back, teeth, anything else checked regularly, top of the range synthetic saddle for his ever-changing shape, haybar, etc. etc. and pulsed magnetic boots which he wears every day when he’s stabled (harder to fit into routine when out all the time) and they seem to have helped his tendons heal as well. My horses are spoilt rotten (but in a good way, no bad manners (mostly!)

) and have every conceivable piece of equipment, food, they might need to ensure as natural a life as possible. Him and my other boy currently on box rest have homes for life whatever the state of their legs, and if my new mare pans out to be as good for me as hoped, then she will have the same. So although he seems happy enough in the field, I think he does miss it all having worked his whole life. When he first did this he was my only horse and I was terrified he would retire himself following a long layoff, but now I have other horses, and it doesn’t matter if he does, it’s clear he hasn’t and wants to carry on.

He has no other problems apart from his front legs, not stiff, arthritic, wheezy, vices, nothing. Shame he can’t be given bionic legs! When I talk to people at shows you discover there’s loads of horses out there competing on long term dosages of something! I only ever compete on surfaces as well.

Kerilli, completely understand what you’re saying, and have seen it happen in public so know how easily it does, but if it was terminal at least he was doing what he enjoyed rather than wasting away – wouldn’t we all say we would want the same? I have had 3 horses pts over the years, having owned all of them for many, many years. Horses could wipe us out in an instant but do we decide to stay in with a good book? Course not, though I do miss that

If he goes out and hurts himself slightly (which he is just as likely to do in the field, which is how it all started anyway!) then has to have another year off, I’m ok with that as I have the other 2 to keep me occupied. My farrier says he’s capable of doing more damage by himself than by anything I do with him. Regarding hacking on the road, he doesn’t give a stuff about the traffic, just the rogue leaves, etc. and in particular plastic bags, but leaps out into the road – that’s what bothers me! My other 2 are bombproof so I may get my more fearless friend to ride him with me one day as she’ll make him see sense and stop messing around! My instructor does say he takes the p with me sometimes but he’s not gonna change at his age

Think will carry on trying to get him a bit fitter, then scan when have funds and see what they say. We’ve actually considered taking him to shows just for the ride and then going round the warm up with him. How do you post photos on here? I have a superb one which shows exactly what he thinks of his jumping

Have considered doing veteran showing with him but assumed he would always be marked down for his thickened tendons?

Second long post over, sorry !

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Also why I thought about No Bute, if they won’t give me anything to help him.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience of vets and the older horse is that if the owner tells them they feel a maintenance dose of bute will help keep them comfortable, then they are more than happy to prescribe it.

Good luck with your lad.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

i would re scan . as long as new injury is suitably healed and uyou have done the pavement pounding in walk or on walker then go ahead and play within reasons. giving the golden oldies a bute or danelon (both the same but danelon tastes better but more expensive!) to help them along is no different to you taking paracetemol or brufen cos you got an ache, quality of life versus quantity of crap boring life?

 

[Jambo]

What a lucky horse to have you as an owner! Yes, I agree, have him re-scanned. Also, try and persevere with the hacking, the more you do the less frightening the leaves/plastic bags/ghosts and ghoulies will become!! I speak from experience with my 17 yr old ex show jumper.
I agree that your vet should have no problem with prescribing bute to keep him happy.
Good luck and hope things go well for you both.

 

[SuzySue]

His quality of life has just gone up even more as he is completely smitten with my new mare, bless him. He's old enough to be her father!!!