What to feed an ex racer in light/med work for weight gain?

[{138964}]

I have had my ex racer for nearly a year now and in the summer she was lovely and round. She was on Alfalfa A Oil, Conditioning Cubes and sometimes a Balancer. She has lot a bit of weight in the winter, so I started to add speedi beet, but couldn't see much of a difference. I then tried micronised linseed and she turned crazy!! (her previous owner messaged to say she had the same experience when she added that to her diet). So I have now switched to Dengie Healthy Hooves, Conditioning Cubes and Equerry Conditioning Mash, which I have just realised has linseed in. Can anyone recommend what feeds for weight gain that do not contain any linseed whatsoever, I am really struggling here. Thank you!

 

[ihatework]

Try adding straight rice bran, Saracen would be the one most available without linseed added.

What is that rational for healthy hooves, that is low bulk filler, why not stick to the Alfa Oil?

 

[JillA]

Protein. Look for it in the analyses, it is what they need to make soft tissue, especially muscles, and good feet. And it shouldn't be heating like carbs or oil

 

[ycbm]

Protein. Look for it in the analyses, it is what they need to make soft tissue, especially muscles, and good feet. And it shouldn't be heating like carbs or oil

Horses in low levels of work don't need high protein diets and it can cause serious problems to feed too much of it.

Muscles are made from amino acids, most of which the horse can manufacture out of things it eats which are not themselves protein.

Here's a good, I think, explanation of the problems:

https://www.duwell.co.nz/resources/...e-equine-diet-can-cause-significant-problems/

 

[{138964}]

Try adding straight rice bran, Saracen would be the one most available without linseed added.

What is that rational for healthy hooves, that is low bulk filler, why not stick to the Alfa Oil?

I think I will go back to the Alfalfa Oil, I was just recommended that trio of feed. But I am wondering what I can add to Alfalfa Oil and Conditioning Cubes to promote some weight gain?

 

[TPO]

Copra/Coolstance is a conditioning coconut meat feed; linseed free and high protein (don't mistake for Cool Power which is VERY high protein)

I would have thought it would be more likely to be the Alfalfa and cereals in the stated feeds than the linseed causing "craziness"?

I've had a few ex-racers over the years and over 10yrs ago my go to was Alfa-A, speedibeet and conditioning cubes. I've done a lot of reading and experimenting over the years and have ended up feeding Keyflow Pink Mash, grass nuts, micronized linseed, molassess/alfa/straw free chaff and a vit/min supp.

It seems counterintuitive to feed Pink Mash as it's a lower Mj/Kg than other feeds but my guess is that because it helps the gut (including hind) then they can get more out of other feed too? There is a big difference with current ex-racer switching from Pink Mash to Speedibeet (were trying for higher calories for his first winter 3yrs ago) and back again when he actually dropped (also some papers on beet being too high in iron and actually having a negative effect on hindgut - but you'll find folk on both sides with pros and cons)

 

[dogatemysalad]

Copra coolstance is a good option, with the added benefit of a shiny coat.

 

[JillA]

Horses in low levels of work don't need high protein diets and it can cause serious problems to feed too much of it.

Muscles are made from amino acids, most of which the horse can manufacture out of things it eats which are not themselves protein.

Here's a good, I think, explanation of the problems:

https://www.duwell.co.nz/resources/...e-equine-diet-can-cause-significant-problems/

Amino acids ARE proteins, or at least the building blocks of protein - you can buy the individual amino acids such as lysine (one which many horses fail to obtain enough of) and methionine, (often ditto and particularly helpful for hoof quality). I'm not sure what that writers qualifications are (it's a NZ domain?) but my vet said there are very very few recorded cases of kidney problems in equines and of those none directly attributable to protein.
I suspect if there was a problem it was due to feeding EXCESSIVE quantities of protein, and because it is a relatively expensive component, there isn't usually a high percentage in proprietory feeds. As always, everything in moderation but my poor doer ex chaser has responded well to supplementing with whey protein and at the age of 19 is retired but not showing any ill effects.
It's carbs that are burned off by work, proteins contribute to muscle development which comes from work.

 

[splashgirl45]

the grass should be growing so unless she is thin i would be careful how much you feed. can you feed more hay/haylage and something like fast fibre together with a balancer. also are her teeth ok?

 

[Northern]

I'm a big fan of Copra Coolstance, all my TBs have always done really well on it. But at the end of the day each horse is different and you might need to do a bit of fiddling to find what is right for your horse.

 

[Leo Walker]

Copra/Coolstance is a conditioning coconut meat feed; linseed free and high protein (don't mistake for Cool Power which is VERY high protein)

I would have thought it would be more likely to be the Alfalfa and cereals in the stated feeds than the linseed causing "craziness"?

I've had a few ex-racers over the years and over 10yrs ago my go to was Alfa-A, speedibeet and conditioning cubes. I've done a lot of reading and experimenting over the years and have ended up feeding Keyflow Pink Mash, grass nuts, micronized linseed, molassess/alfa/straw free chaff and a vit/min supp.

It seems counterintuitive to feed Pink Mash as it's a lower Mj/Kg than other feeds but my guess is that because it helps the gut (including hind) then they can get more out of other feed too? There is a big difference with current ex-racer switching from Pink Mash to Speedibeet (were trying for higher calories for his first winter 3yrs ago) and back again when he actually dropped (also some papers on beet being too high in iron and actually having a negative effect on hindgut - but you'll find folk on both sides with pros and cons)

This, although I have previously used Pink Mash for very good doers, it does seem to work for condition on poor doers as well. I feed mine pink mash, a grass museli similar to Agrobs/Thunderbrooks but from Kramer, and equimins powder balancer. I add a handful of Copra, mainly because I have it and am trying to use it up. I added the grass museli as she started to drop off a few weeks ago and was looking a bit poor. A big double handful of that has kept her weight steady.

For weight gain Copra would be my go to if they will eat it, if not then rice bran oil products are amazing. I fed 100gms to one of mine and he put weight on seemingly overnight.

 

[{138964}]

the grass should be growing so unless she is thin i would be careful how much you feed. can you feed more hay/haylage and something like fast fibre together with a balancer. also are her teeth ok?

She has as much hay as she wants, round bale in her field and lots at night when in her stable. She just had her teeth done with her booster vacs, everything all up to date and fine.

 

[{138964}]

Copra/Coolstance is a conditioning coconut meat feed; linseed free and high protein (don't mistake for Cool Power which is VERY high protein)

I would have thought it would be more likely to be the Alfalfa and cereals in the stated feeds than the linseed causing "craziness"?

I've had a few ex-racers over the years and over 10yrs ago my go to was Alfa-A, speedibeet and conditioning cubes. I've done a lot of reading and experimenting over the years and have ended up feeding Keyflow Pink Mash, grass nuts, micronized linseed, molassess/alfa/straw free chaff and a vit/min supp.

It seems counterintuitive to feed Pink Mash as it's a lower Mj/Kg than other feeds but my guess is that because it helps the gut (including hind) then they can get more out of other feed too? There is a big difference with current ex-racer switching from Pink Mash to Speedibeet (were trying for higher calories for his first winter 3yrs ago) and back again when he actually dropped (also some papers on beet being too high in iron and actually having a negative effect on hindgut - but you'll find folk on both sides with pros and cons)

She was Alfalfa Oil and Cubes all summer and she was fine. It is the linseed that causes the problems. Her old owner experienced the same.

 

[{138964}]

This, although I have previously used Pink Mash for very good doers, it does seem to work for condition on poor doers as well. I feed mine pink mash, a grass museli similar to Agrobs/Thunderbrooks but from Kramer, and equimins powder balancer. I add a handful of Copra, mainly because I have it and am trying to use it up. I added the grass museli as she started to drop off a few weeks ago and was looking a bit poor. A big double handful of that has kept her weight steady.

For weight gain Copra would be my go to if they will eat it, if not then rice bran oil products are amazing. I fed 100gms to one of mine and he put weight on seemingly overnight.

I think copra may be an option to try!

 

[TPO]

This, although I have previously used Pink Mash for very good doers, it does seem to work for condition on poor doers as well. I feed mine pink mash, a grass museli similar to Agrobs/Thunderbrooks but from Kramer, and equimins powder balancer. I add a handful of Copra, mainly because I have it and am trying to use it up. I added the grass museli as she started to drop off a few weeks ago and was looking a bit poor. A big double handful of that has kept her weight steady.

For weight gain Copra would be my go to if they will eat it, if not then rice bran oil products are amazing. I fed 100gms to one of mine and he put weight on seemingly overnight.

Exactly, was just using ex-racer as that's what OP mentioned but the exact same diet in different quantities is fed to very good doing cob (digestive/metabolic issues and needs a carrier for supps) and my 6yr old QH. It's proven to be a really good diet at all stages of QH's growth and with reducing cob's waistline as well as keeping the TB blooming

 

[ycbm]

Amino acids ARE proteins, or at least the building blocks of protein -

That's what I said.

I'm not sure what that writers qualifications are (it's a NZ domain?) but my vet said there are very very few recorded cases of kidney problems in equines and of those none directly attributable to protein.

Did you read the article I pointed to?. It didn't say anything about kidney problems, it's all about high protein durets creating an acid environment in the body and why that causes problems. I picked one article out of many from all over the world Jill.

Against your retired old horse, I will offer a friend's Arab whose tendons began to fail on a high protein diet (the article explains why). I think my own ex racer is another case. He lost a lot of weight when he came to me, and he had dreadful muscle wastage in some very strange places. I believe he had been being fed racehorse cubes even though he was in low/no work, and over years, ended up holding water (which looked like fat) and cannibalizing his own body to balance minerals, exactly as the article describes.

 

[AmyMay]

Is she warm enough?

 

[{138964}]

Is she warm enough?

She is rugged according to the weather. Always has a stable rug on at night if below 10 she has a 200grm, if below 5 she will have another liner too. Likewise in the day, if turned out and above 15 she has nothing or a no fill. Below 15 a lightweight and below 10 a medium etc. She is probably over rugged if anything.

 

[ihatework]

I think I will go back to the Alfalfa Oil, I was just recommended that trio of feed. But I am wondering what I can add to Alfalfa Oil and Conditioning Cubes to promote some weight gain?

What access to grass and good hay/haylage does the horse have?

What does the horse currently weigh and what is the horses ideal weight?

How much of the Alfa & cubes were you feeding and was the horses temperament good on that combination?

Sometimes we just over complicate things - it could be as simple as just needing to up current rations.

Otherwise, like I said, Saracen rice bran as a top dressing to add low volume calories to existing rations. Or just bog standard supermarket rapeseed oil.

FWIW I had one who went bat sh*t mental on micronised linseed and was absolutely fine on Alfa

 

[{138964}]

What access to grass and good hay/haylage does the horse have?

What does the horse currently weigh and what is the horses ideal weight?

How much of the Alfa & cubes were you feeding and was the horses temperament good on that combination?

Sometimes we just over complicate things - it could be as simple as just needing to up current rations.

Otherwise, like I said, Saracen rice bran as a top dressing to add low volume calories to existing rations. Or just bog standard supermarket rapeseed oil.

FWIW I had one who went bat sh*t mental on micronised linseed and was absolutely fine on Alfa

I don't know her current weight but she isn't skinny she has just lost some weight over winter and isn't as round as I would like her to be. In the summer she was turned out 7-7 with good grazing and is on ad lib hay and fed 1 scoop of alfa and 1 scoop of cubes at night and honeychop and cubes in the morning, she looked wonderful. But the winter she has just lost a bit of weight and condition.

 

[ihatework]

I don't know her current weight but she isn't skinny she has just lost some weight over winter and isn't as round as I would like her to be. In the summer she was turned out 7-7 with good grazing and is on ad lib hay and fed 1 scoop of alfa and 1 scoop of cubes at night and honeychop and cubes in the morning, she looked wonderful. But the winter she has just lost a bit of weight and condition.

Okay. Well it would be useful going forwards to know what her weight is/should be - even just a weigh tape can help (but isn’t completely accurate).

Scoops - Stubbs or something else? What does one scoop weigh in kg?

Horses are actually designed to loose a little weight over winter, it isn’t necessarily a bad thing - it just depends on what her summer weight is and how much they loose. Do you have any photos?

I generally feed by eye, and most of the ones I’ve owned over the years have been fatties and need very little (nowhere near what the feed companies suggest). But when you do have one that needs some grub then you do need to know their weight and the weight of the food you are feeding to make an informed choice. Chopping and changing isn’t always the way to go.

In this case why not just add an extra 0.5kg of cubes split between feeds, or add an extra feed?

 

[TPO]

Could it be she has lost condition/shape because she's not in as much work to keep her as muscled up? We all tend to do less during the winter months.

Have her rations changed with the seasons? ie increased as the goodness in the grass has dropped (if required)

Is it possible she is too warm? Horses struggle more with being too warm than too cool. The TB removes his own rugs if he gets too warm and prefers to be naked whereas the QH has a MW on in the same temps. It has to be below 5 at night before TB gets 100gm stable rug on and there needs to be a cold wind and/or rain before he has 100-200gm on to go out. He's unclipped and has next to no coat but clearly enough for what he needs!

 

[{138964}]

Okay. Well it would be useful going forwards to know what her weight is/should be - even just a weigh tape can help (but isn’t completely accurate).

Scoops - Stubbs or something else? What does one scoop weigh in kg?

Horses are actually designed to loose a little weight over winter, it isn’t necessarily a bad thing - it just depends on what her summer weight is and how much they loose. Do you have any photos?

I generally feed by eye, and most of the ones I’ve owned over the years have been fatties and need very little (nowhere near what the feed companies suggest). But when you do have one that needs some grub then you do need to know their weight and the weight of the food you are feeding to make an informed choice. Chopping and changing isn’t always the way to go.

In this case why not just add an extra 0.5kg of cubes split between feeds, or add an extra feed?

Yes it a stubbs cube. Unfortunately as I said I don't know her weight, but the vet who did her booster vacs recently said he was pleased with her weight she just needed more muscle (but I do prefer my horses to be on the rounder side). This was her in the summer and this is her currently in the winter.
Her feed is increased compared to the summer, by quite a lot. My post is asking for an alternative feed to add to her diet for some weight gain.

 

[{138964}]

Could it be she has lost condition/shape because she's not in as much work to keep her as muscled up? We all tend to do less during the winter months.

Have her rations changed with the seasons? ie increased as the goodness in the grass has dropped (if required)

Is it possible she is too warm? Horses struggle more with being too warm than too cool. The TB removes his own rugs if he gets too warm and prefers to be naked whereas the QH has a MW on in the same temps. It has to be below 5 at night before TB gets 100gm stable rug on and there needs to be a cold wind and/or rain before he has 100-200gm on to go out. He's unclipped and has next to no coat but clearly enough for what he needs!

Yes rations have changed. And she is never too warm, she is checked during the day and rugs taken off or changed if needs be.

 

[ihatework]

Okay, then as a winter ration I would feed her 3/4 x Stubbs of your conditioning cubes (assuming they are a good brand) and one times Stubbs Alfa Oil, 3 x day.

This would be approx 3-3.5kg of cubes and 1.5kg of Alfa. Over 3 meals that is about as much as you would want to go.

If you need more, top dress with Saracen rice bran.

In terms of which cubes, it would kind of depend on what she is on now, how steady her temperament is and what she reacts to (other than linseed). Most conditioning cubes will be in the 12.5-13 kJ region.

Buy yourself a weight tape 😃

Depending on how tall she is her ideal weight will be between 500-550 as an estimate.

She looks like a lovely mare and really not ‘too thin’ given the spring grass is just about to arrive. So maybe hold fire on any diet changes until the grass is here.

 

[Northern]

Yes it a stubbs cube. Unfortunately as I said I don't know her weight, but the vet who did her booster vacs recently said he was pleased with her weight she just needed more muscle (but I do prefer my horses to be on the rounder side). This was her in the summer and this is her currently in the winter.
Her feed is increased compared to the summer, by quite a lot. My post is asking for an alternative feed to add to her diet for some weight gain.

She looks fine for this time of year. Once the grass comes through she will look the type to blossom very quickly and you will need to cut her feed I wouldn't worry about it for the moment. Lovely mare!

 

[splashgirl45]

she looks right to me for this time of year. a pretty mare... i would still be cautious about feeding her extra as the grass will soon be here and although you say you prefer her to be fatter horses should lose a bit of weight during the winter to prevent getting over fat in the summer, you said light to medium work, how much is that? if not much i would up her work if you are going to feed extra...

 

[minesadouble]

I agree with everyone saying she looks fine, especially at this time of year.
We have had a few ex racehorses and have found that overall the best way to feed them is ad lib real good quality haylage and no hard feed at all.
Obviously there are exceptions and it. May not be sufficient for a horse in really hard work but ours in light to medium work look fabulous on haylage alone.

 

[TheMule]

Horses in low levels of work don't need high protein diets and it can cause serious problems to feed too much of it.

Muscles are made from amino acids, most of which the horse can manufacture out of things it eats which are not themselves protein.

Here's a good, I think, explanation of the problems:

https://www.duwell.co.nz/resources/...e-equine-diet-can-cause-significant-problems/

I'm sorry, but this article is just utter nonsense.
Here is a basic scientific article explaining why this sort of claim is utter b*llocks.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322557.php