What to offer?

[Ddraig_wen]

Bare with me it might be a long one...
I work with a small stud who only breed a few a year. I've had youngsters from them before. One I lost to grass sickness when he was 5 and the other my friend has on permanent loan because he only made 13.2hh instead of the 15hh he was supposed to make.

I do the showing and bathing, plaiting, teaching to trot in hand and I show the older horses. They have a foal that I've fallen in love with, I let them know when it was 6 hours old if they ever want to sell then I would like to buy. The mother has done quite well in the showring mostly with me. Foalie has been shown too also by myself. I pay most of the entry fees and they cover the transport. They are shown in my tack.
There are whispers now that foalie is for sale now he's over a year. Foalie is going to be the size of a giraffe and has started taking the piddle out of the owner. Bites them, barges and they have decided they have to be in foalies face to control it. I have no issues with foalie nor does the other person who has handled him. He has gone over fences at home more than once towards the mares. He's been lucky that he's not managed to injure himself. The stud doesn't usually have any entires over 14.2 he will be well over 16hh.
I asked what foalies price would be if someone were to enquire and it was fairly substantial and out of my budget. But as foalie's cv wouldn't exist if I hadn't been around I think I'd rather make an offer and hope that in the meantime he doesn't develop any bad habits. He has a lovely temperament and has been very willing and amenable whatever I've asked of him.
So I guess the question is what would you expect to pay for a crossbred foal (no warmblood in there but a mix of irish, welsh, tb and others) of a pretty colour. Sports horse type to make over 16hh who has been shown and done ok.

Second question is what would you offer if you had done alot of work?

 

[ihatework]

It’s a foal/yearling - ok it’s shown, but it’s not really a CV that will change its value unless it’s top level stuff/decent grading. You have also presumably done this because you want too? Therefore I’d expect no more than a reasonably small ‘mates rates’ discount in the region of 10%.

Tricky to say what the yearling is worth - depends on how nice it is and who the parents are.
As a minimum I’d say £1K + stud fee + vet stud fees.

 

[AmyMay]

How much do they actually want for it?

 

[Ddraig_wen]

The showing and the colour is why they're putting the price up at the moment they've said.

They won't give me an exact figure but they turned down 2.5k for him.

I've been a little vague in places just in case its read

 

[bonny]

The showing and the colour is why they're putting the price up at the moment they've said.

They won't give me an exact figure but they turned down 2.5k for him.

I've been a little vague in places just in case its read

If you are vague about the details people can only give you a vague price ! Sorry but that’s true and I don’t think the work you have put in really comes into it

 

[Ddraig_wen]

If you are vague about the details people can only give you a vague price ! Sorry but that’s true and I don’t think the work you have put in really comes into it

I didnt expect detailed prices just a vague idea. That's fair enough

 

[Bernster]

Sadly I think the market value is the same regardless of who's offering. From the seller side, it would be nice to factor in your support etc and offer you a lower price, but they don't have to and can just go for the best price they can. I think it's reasonable to offer what you want to pay, and remind them of the work you've put in to get him to where he is, but entirely up to them if they feel they can do better elsewhere.

 

[Theocat]

They won't be making much at all unless it's well above £2.5k, once you take into account two years of keep, vet fees, etc. All you can do is offer what you are prepared to pay and leave it to them.

Do you get paid for the work you do for the stud?

 

[ihatework]

The showing and the colour is why they're putting the price up at the moment they've said.

They won't give me an exact figure but they turned down 2.5k for him.

I've been a little vague in places just in case its read

Sorry, in your OP you said they had given you a figure.

I don’t think a 2.5k offer on a yearling is unreasonable (unless it is very well bred), so it shouldn’t be insulting.

But at the same time it’s their horse and presumably they have a minimum price in mind where it’s worth them selling versus keeping.

Ultimately all you can do is register your interest and wait for them to come down to a price that is acceptable to you if they are serious about selling - or they advertise and the market will decide on the price

 

[ester]

It seems like they didn't tell you it was now for sale, even though you had asked for first refusal which would make me think they aren't interested in an offer because of work put in etc.

 

[HeyMich]

Is this actually a paid job of yours? Does your job description detail that you will help with shows, teach ground movements etc? If so, I think you have to assume that all the improvements you have made to this horse are part of your job description and assume that you are already paid accordingly. They, of course, should give you some benefit of the doubt when buying one of their own horses, but market value is market value (purely determined by a willing buyer and a willing seller), no matter your previous knowledge of the horse.

Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick here...

 

[Ddraig_wen]

It's not a paid job no I've been doing them a favour because they can't do it themselves. There is no payment changed hands even if they've had horses on livery here. I do wonder if there have been money troubles though. A lady went to but one I had ridden there last year and they actually said to her when she asked if home was more important than price they said price. The answer used to be home.

I think I'll just have to sit tight and see what happens and hope that foalie stays in one piece from his antics

 

[indie1282]

If you are paid to work at the stud then the work you have put in to him is irrelevant. You would have been paid to do this anyway regardless of your attachment to the foal. You have asked for 1st refusal if its sold and they have not offered it to you, this could be because they want alot more money than they ' think' you would be able/willing to pay or some other reason.

If you work there unpaid then yes it would be worth making an offer.

If I was you I would be upfront and honest with them and say you have heard that someone has made an offer ( dont disclose how much ) and if he/she is for sale you are interested and ask their price.

 

[indie1282]

It's not a paid job no I've been doing them a favour because they can't do it themselves. There is no payment changed hands even if they've had horses on livery here. I do wonder if there have been money troubles though. A lady went to but one I had ridden there last year and they actually said to her when she asked if home was more important than price they said price. The answer used to be home.

I think I'll just have to sit tight and see what happens and hope that foalie stays in one piece from his antics

Ah well then that's made things clearer.

You could just stop helping them out, let them get in a pickle with him then go back and make an offer.

You could outright ask them a price - if it's too high then you could say that you dont want to handle the horse anymore as you dont want to get attached- then if he starts being naughty and they cant cope they may offer him at a cheaper price.

Both of the above are probably not ideal for you but if you really want him and you know he will out of your budget I dont know what else to suggest.

Good luck!!

 

[Ddraig_wen]

Ah well then that's made things clearer.

You could just stop helping them out, let them get in a pickle with him then go back and make an offer.

You could outright ask them a price - if it's too high then you could say that you dont want to handle the horse anymore as you dont want to get attached- then if he starts being naughty and they cant cope they may offer him at a cheaper price.

Both of the above are probably not ideal for you but if you really want him and you know he will out of your budget I dont know what else to suggest.

Good luck!!

That sounds like it could work. I'll keep an eye from a distance for a while and see what happens to his behaviour. I've seen him deliberately go through the owner already

 

[SpringArising]

I think you need to stop helping them because it sounds like it's gotten to a stage where you're helping and starting to be a bit resentful or expecting something back and not getting it (which is totally normal, but doesn't sound like you're getting much from the deal).

I wouldn't pay more than 1700 for what you've described.

 

[Antw23uk]

I would be cooling off the relationship i had with them and the work i put in. You are adding this so called value to a horse they wont sell you! Either they are taking you for a mug or .. well is there an or? I would put this down to experience and then i would be making a final offer within your budget and if that didnt float then i would walk away from the whole thing. You arent really benefiting from these people and they seem to be take take take ... your time, money, effort ... !

 

[indie1282]

That sounds like it could work. I'll keep an eye from a distance for a while and see what happens to his behaviour. I've seen him deliberately go through the owner already

I just think that the owners should have at least offered you first refusal out of politeness, even if it's out of your budget. The fact that said horse is causing them trouble and they are still expecting you to train it and handle it is a bit of a piss take imo.

It's very difficult once you get attached to a horse to just walk away but I think in this case it's the best thing to do.

I would therefore make it clear you are interested, ask a price and if out of budget say you are taking a step back and leaving them to it.

 

[HeyMich]

It's not a paid job no I've been doing them a favour because they can't do it themselves. There is no payment changed hands even if they've had horses on livery here. I do wonder if there have been money troubles though. A lady went to but one I had ridden there last year and they actually said to her when she asked if home was more important than price they said price. The answer used to be home.

I think I'll just have to sit tight and see what happens and hope that foalie stays in one piece from his antics

Ah, well that's a different situation then.

Stop helping them, stop doing show prep and take your tack back. Sounds like you are getting a very rough deal!

Alternatively, ask them upfront what they want to take him off the market.