What was/is the point of Tomatillo?

soloequestrian

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Again, just for interest....
Tomatillo is in training to event, but it's reported that that wasn't the 'main goal' of his production. His stud fee is only £800 and he doesn't seem to have had many mares - I didn't think that specifically breeding to event was much of a thing anyway given the massive role the environment plays in this sport.

The only reason I can think for his existence is that he was a freebie so that Replica Farm can use him as advertising, which they are doing.

Any thoughts (or insider information)?
 

ycbm

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Interesting that he's in training. As a clone, he's likely not to stand up to the work, because clones are not born as healthy as a naturally conceived animal where nature resets the genes to zero. Msn isn't quite as good at doing that yet. The eggs and sperm of a clone, however, are reset by nature and the offspring therefore are as healthy as a normal horse. I'll be watching his competitive career with interest.
 

ester

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Actually I think now we have more of them reaching older ages that theory on clones is under significant reconsideration and that they likely aren't weaker or likely to die earlier. Obviously the stats are increasing on that all the time.

He had his first crop on the ground this year, I wouldn't have expected him to have many mares yet.
 

PapaFrita

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Interesting that he's in training. As a clone, he's likely not to stand up to the work, because clones are not born as healthy as a naturally conceived animal where nature resets the genes to zero. Msn isn't quite as good at doing that yet. The eggs and sperm of a clone, however, are reset by nature and the offspring therefore are as healthy as a normal horse. I'll be watching his competitive career with interest.

Adolfo Cambiaso played SIX clones of his mare Cuartetera in the Argentine Open and apparently they were all amazing.
 

soloequestrian

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TheMule

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But if it is just breeding and he cost around $85k to produce (http://www.replicafarm.com/), how are they ever going to make the money back? That's what I mean about his production maybe being cheap or free - if he didn't cost much to produce it would be worth doing. If he did cost the full whack then it seems an enormous gamble.

Maybe they're not concerned about making the money back? Plenty of people pay that and more to buy a horse and there isn't necessarily an expectation of a return. If they get pleasure from the horse (and they certainly did from Tamarillo) and can have some of their own offspring, maybe that's enough for them?
 

DD

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But if it is just breeding and he cost around $85k to produce (http://www.replicafarm.com/), how are they ever going to make the money back? That's what I mean about his production maybe being cheap or free - if he didn't cost much to produce it would be worth doing. If he did cost the full whack then it seems an enormous gamble.
possibly not bothered about the money. more about getting Tamarillos genes into the horse breeding pool.
 

ycbm

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Actually I think now we have more of them reaching older ages that theory on clones is under significant reconsideration and that they likely aren't weaker or likely to die earlier. Obviously the stats are increasing on that all the time.

He had his first crop on the ground this year, I wouldn't have expected him to have many mares yet.

That's interesting Ester. I did a lot of research on this for a presentation on Epigenetics that I did six months ago, so obviously this is changing all the time.

I think they are very unwise to compete him at all if money of the object. He can't really do better than his parent. If he does worse than his parent, his semen will surely only be worth only what he is worth, not Tamarillo. They must know this, so I don't believe that their objective is money.
 

ester

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It is fraught with the issue that actually some of these animals are still not old enough to tell from their expected lifespan, and of the production animals (there are quite a lot of cattle) they aren't kept past their economic point. So for a lot of it there is only the animals kept experimentally - in some ways it has moved out of the lab a bit too quick in that respect.

This is an okish review from this year, which basically says we don't really know but has a nice table of the number of animals reaching expected age etc.
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/452444
 

Equi

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I dont get clones to be honest. Surely the fun of breeding is seeing what you get from certain crosses?
 

ycbm

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I dont get clones to be honest. Surely the fun of breeding is seeing what you get from certain crosses?

A lot of it will presumably be to breed from horses which have been gelded before they prove themselves.
 

ozpoz

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I think this technology is going to make an already shrunk gene pool even smaller which is shortsighted, at best.
 

TheMule

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I think this technology is going to make an already shrunk gene pool even smaller which is shortsighted, at best.

Not really in Tomatillo's case, those bloodlines aren't common.
Maybe in the Cruising clones- there are already plenty of Cruisings and Cruising sons around!
 

Bernster

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I know very little about cloning but imagine having valegro babies in the world, I can see why people would take the risk and bear the cost!
 
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