What weight can my horse carry?! Really 19 STONE???

[Spyda]

Just read online; The weight rule is that a horse should only carry 1/5 of his/her body weight.

But surely this depends on the horse? Age, bone, fitness, rider's ability, etc....

Anyway, my husband is 13.5 Stone and what with saddle etc, I rounded the total weight the horse would have to carry up to 14.5 stone.

My WBxTB 4 year old is 16.1, with 8.5 inches of bone and weighs 610Kg. What's the max weight she can happily carry....

Now using the above calculation of 1/5 bodyweight:

610 kg / 5 = 122kg = 268lbs = 19 Stone! REALLY????? Means my OH is well within the range but I cannot believe my horse of mine's size would be happy lugging round an 18 stone chap - no matter how superb a rider he was or how fit and mature SHE was.

Is there a more reliable calculation out there?

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

I don't think a blanket rule can apply to something with so many variables.
From the description you give, I would say your horse could carry 14 - 15 stone incl tack but without seeing the horse and how fit, how well it carries itself etc its hard to be more specific. Would also depend on how the rider rides of course, a sightly heavier balanced, light rider can be easier for a horse to carry than a slightly lighter unbalanced, heavy rider.

 

[horsegirl]

I thought it was 15% of body weight? Obviously some thought needs to be put into it, if my TB was carrying 100kg of excess weight on him it wouldn't mean he could carry even more of me.

 

[ihatework]

For me it would depend on age of horse, type of horse, experience of rider, work expected.

So for the example you give of a 16.1hh 4yo (presume L-MW type) there is no way I would put 19 stone on their back.

I would limit to 12st novice, 13.5 stone intermediate and 14.5 stone experienced for light work at this stage.

When the horse matures, strengthens and finds their balance I would not hesitate to increase these weights.

Personally I would not put 19 stone on your horse ever!

 

[Spyda]

For me it would depend on age of horse, type of horse, experience of rider, work expected.

So for the example you give of a 16.1hh 4yo (presume L-MW type) there is no way I would put 19 stone on their back.

I would limit to 12st novice, 13.5 stone intermediate and 14.5 stone experienced for light work at this stage.

When the horse matures, strengthens and finds their balance I would not hesitate to increase these weights.

Personally I would not put 19 stone on your horse ever!

Darn right! Max she'll carry (assuming I don't balloon!!!) is 12 stone or less!

But it just goes to show what sort of stuff you pick up on the internet, by purported 'experts'.

 

[Natch]

I don't think you'll ever be able to decide what weight a horse can carry from a formula alone, there are too many variables like tack, fitness, conformation, rider's ability.... I reckon its best to use common sense, and a good eye for whether or not the horse appears to struggle with a particular rider.

Having said that there was someone on here (one of the men IIRC) who came up with some really interesting lbs per square inch or similar type of equasion which I think had been scientifically proven. It appeared to prove that rider's weight in relation to the spread of weight over the horse's back (saddle contact area) was much more of a limiting factor than bone measurements or anything else.

 

[AndySpooner]

Pack horses round here used to carry 240lb.

It was 1 penny a lb, and one pound a pack.

They were Dales and Fell types, but I cannot find anything about how long they lasted carrying that sort of weight.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Just read online; The weight rule is that a horse should only carry 1/5 of his/her body weight.

..

610 kg / 5 = 122kg = 268lbs = 19 Stone! REALLY????? Means my OH is well within the range but I cannot believe my horse of mine's size would be happy lugging round an 18 stone chap - no matter how superb a rider he was or how fit and mature SHE was.

Is there a more reliable calculation out there?

You've just spotted what is wrong with ANY calculation! The weight of the horse? Is the horse thin - or fat as a pig? THAT question would make a difference.

Then there's bone, then there's length of back, age, level of fitness.

WHEN this horse is fully mature, he'd probably carry 18 stone quite happily (although if my OH gets THAT fat I'll kill him!)

Vital statistics: 17.1hh, 10.5" of bone, VERY short back and plenty of heart room. You could drive a small car between his front legs! He weighs just on 800kg. He's only 5 and still a bit bum high - and won't be mature before 7. The rider on him in this pic is 6' tall and just under 13 stone - and Lofty hardly notices him!

He's by a BIG RID stallion, out of a 17hh TBxPercheron mare!

Of course, a horse can always carry MORE weight - but it won't do his back, legs, or general happiness levels any good to be over-loaded.

 

[buddylove]

Vital statistics: 17.1hh, 10.5" of bone, VERY short back and plenty of heart room. You could drive a small car between his front legs! He weighs just on 800kg. He's only 5 and still a bit bum high - and won't be mature before 7. The rider on him in this pic is 6' tall and just under 13 stone - and Lofty hardly notices him!
.

You forgot to add into his vitals that he is also absolutely GORGEOUS!!!

 

[xRobyn]

Study conducted showing increase in negative effects carrying a larger rider.

2008. Powell, D, Bennett-Wimbush, K, Peeples, A and Duthie, M. Evaluation of Indicators of Weight-Carrying Ability of Light Riding Horses. Journal of Equine Veterinary Science. 28(1), pp.28-33
To answer the question of whether horse height, cannon bone circumference, and loin width can be used as indicators of weight-carrying ability in light horses,eight mature horses underwent a submaximal mounted standard exercise test under four conditions: carrying 15, 20, 25, or 30% of their body weight. Heart rate was monitored, plasma lactate concentration was determined in jugular blood samples pre-exercise, immediately post-exercise, and 10 minutes post-exercise, with serum creatine kinase activity determined at the same times as plasma lactate concentrations, with additional samples collected at 24 hours and 48 hours post-exercise. Muscle soreness and muscle tightness scores were determined using a subjective scoring system 24 hours before and 24 hours after exercise. Heart rates remained significantly higher when the horses carried 25 and 30% of their body weight. Plasma lactate concentrations immediately and 10 minutes after exercise differed when horses carried 30% of their body weight compared with 15, 20, and 25% weight carriage. Horses tended to have a greater change in muscle soreness and muscle tightness when carrying 25% of their body weight, and a significant change in soreness and tightness scores was found in horses carrying30% of their body weight. Loin width and cannon bone circumference were found to be negatively correlated to the changes in muscle soreness and tightness scores. In conclusion, the data suggest that horses with wider loin and thicker cannon bone circumference became less sore when carrying heavier weight loads.

The optimum weight a horse can safely carry depends on a variety of physical traits. These may include the horse's size, conformation, body condition, age, duration of the work to be done, as well as speed at which the work is being performed. A few methods are used to help estimate how much weight a horse can safely carry; however, little research can be found to justify these methods.
Historically, the most common recommendation states that the total weight a horse can carry should not exceed 20% of the horse's body weight. This policy may have been based on the 1920 U.S. Calvary Manuals of Horse Management, where the recommended collective weight of rider and gear was not to exceed 20% of the total weight of the horses. Comparably, a more recent study of 360 endurance race horses, primarily of Arabian breeding, evaluated horse and rider weight relationships. They analyzed weight loads as horse body weight independent of rider weight, rider weight independent of weight of the horse, and a rider weight ratio calculated as rider weight divided by the weight of the horse. They concluded that conditioned horses were able to carry 20 to 30% of their body weight for 100 miles.1 In a follow-up study conducted by the same group of researchers, 193 endurance race horses were evaluated for weight loads as described in the previous study. They found that horses with increased body weight without a proportional increase in cannon bone circumference had increased incidence of biomechanical failure, for which the horse did not successfully complete the race.2
The amount of bone that a horse possesses also has been used as a method to help determine the amount of weight a horse can carry. There are a multitude of studies using the equine third metacarpal bone to evaluate skeletal biomechanics relationships, which include bone strength in relation to bone fracture, tension, stress, and elasticity.[3], [4] and [5] Ultrasound also is used as a tool for assessment of bone quality in horses6 and humans.7 Based on a study conducted by Bynum et al,8 a simple noninvasive method for evaluating the amount of bone is by measuring the circumference of the third metacarpal bone midway between the carpal−metacarpal joints, where the recommended circumference is estimated to be 20 cm per 454.5 kg horse body weight. Although this method does not evaluate the actual mineral content of the bone, which is the primary determinant of skeletal bone strength, it can be used as a quantitative measure of the amount of bone.
When evaluating weight-carrying ability of the riding horse, it is important to take into consideration the conformation of the horse. It was determined by a German scientist in 1941 that the horse carries approximately 60% of its body weight on its front legs and 40% on the hind legs; therefore, the center of gravity of a riderless horse would be located at a point just behind the withers near the heart girth.9 There are certain conformational qualities that make it easier for the horse to carry weight on its back. It is a widely held belief among top endurance competitors that loin width is a highly desirable quality in endurance prospects (personal correspondence). The loin of the horse is defined as the pivot point of the horse's back and is the area between the last rib and the croup (crest of the ilium). The width of the loin ends where the ribs start to curve downward. No studies have evaluated loin width as a possible indicator of weight-carrying capacity in the horse.
Plasma lactate concentrations and heart rate are reliable variables used to evaluate the workload of a horse.10 The activity of serum creatine kinase (CK) has been used as an indicator of muscle damage and the association of postexercise muscle soreness in humans.11 The objective of this study was to determine whether cannon bone circumference, loin width, and horse height could be used as indicators of the weight-carrying ability of the light riding horse.

(Omitted Method & results)

To our knowledge this is the first study of this type. In this study, a subjective scoring system of assessment of muscle soreness and tightness was employed as a guide in the assessment of chosen variables of body weight, horse height, cannon bone circumference, and loin width on their usefulness as indicators of weight-carrying ability in light riding horses. The submaximal mounted standard exercise test of the current study was designed to simulate a 45-minute working session of an intermediate riding lesson horse. All horses successfully completed all exercise periods, with the exception of one horse that had to be removed after exhibiting mild lameness at the end of the trotting session of its last exercise testing period.
When a horse is ridden, it has to endure the static weight of the rider as well as the dynamic load when moving.15 In the current study, a weight load of 25 and 30% of the horse's body weight was found to influence work rate, heart rate, and lactate concentrations above weight loads of 15 and 20%. Data from the studies of Garlinghouse and colleagues[1] and [2] showed that horses carried an average of 20% of their body weight during endurance rides; other studies have evaluated the effect of a standard weight loading during treadmill exercise on workload.[10], [16] and [17] A load of at least 10% of the horse's body weight was found to influence heart rate and blood lactate concentrations compared with the horse working unloaded.[10] and [16] No difference was found between mounted and lead-loaded horses in a study by Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan et al.10 However, in that study the horses were only asked to carry between 12.6 and 16.3% of their body weight. The results of their study would then be in accord with the results of the current study, in which no differences in heart rate or plasma lactate concentrations were found when horses worked carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight. This lack of difference was also reflected in respiration rate, rectal temperature, and work rates being similar when horses carried 15 and 20% of their body weight. The percentage of muscle soreness and muscle tightness change, which was the subjective measure used to evaluate weight carrying ability, was similar at approximately 29 with the 15 and 20% body weight carriage; thus indicating agreement with the workload variables of heart rate and plasma lactate. In addition, the horses demonstrated no change in serum creatine kinase activity when exercised carrying 15 and 20% of their body weight. Increase in the activity of serum creatine kinase is commonly used as an indicator of skeletal muscle damage in horses.18 Although the exercise test employed during this study was not designed to produce muscle damage, immediate as well as sustained elevations of serum creatine kinase activities were used as indicators of damaged skeletal muscle with employed treatment weight loads. Even though Volfinger et al19 indicated that a plasma creatine kinase activity of twofold above resting (400 μ/l) corresponded with a negligible amount of skeletal muscle damage, adding other factors such as muscle soreness and tightness may be important in determination of weight-carrying ability.

 

[xRobyn]

[continued]
The creatine kinase activity was greater immediately after exercise, when horses carried 30% of their body weight, and remained elevated at 24 and 48 hours after exercise. Greater work rates, along with increased plasma lactate concentrations found when horses exercised at the higher work load of 30%, are useful information to consider when combined with the greater levels of muscle soreness and tightness changes at 24 hours postexercise when horses carried 30% of their body weight. In humans, muscle soreness develops approximately 24 hours after exercise and may linger for an additional 48 hours.[12], [20] and [21] The relationship of loin width to change in muscle soreness and tightness shows promise, with a negative correlation shown at the 25 and 30% body weight carriage, suggesting that horses with wider loins experience less muscle soreness after exercise when carrying a heavier load. Given the small number of horses used in this study, the results would follow in accordance with a load not in excess of 20% of the horse's body weight for light riding horses. Although strong correlations were not demonstrated, loin width as a potential indicator of weight carriage warrants further investigation. The loin widths and cannon bone circumferences obtained in the current study represented a much narrower and more heterogeneous group than was expected. However, further research might examine not only a larger population of riding horses but also include the total area and depth of loin muscle, and further review the usefulness of serum creatine kinase activity and its relation to muscle soreness as well as hoof size when assessing weight carrying ability.





But weight carrying ability is quite subjective, I think everyone just needs to be sensible about what they are asking of their horse. Some people wouldn't dare put more than 10st on a good/solid TB whilst others have no doubt these horses, so longer as the rider isn't a sack of spuds, the saddle fits and the horse is fit with good muscle tone are up to carrying much more.

With that calculation Phil (currently just under 530kg, welsh cob with 8 3/4" bone) could carry around 16st. That would be the max I would be happy to put on him. When he was 600kg he could carry 18 1/2 stone but I would never have put that much on him.

 

[LND]

This is quite old topic but I'd like to give you an aspect from other country and of course ask what are my chances to continue my hobby in UK when I move in.

Here, in Finland, people doesn't really think this weight thing as much as you seems to. The stables doesn't use to have any kind of weight limits even though they won't let somebody who weights over 20 stones ride their horses.

I'm 14 stones, 5'9'', pretty big girl so to speak. The riding school I'm in doesn't have much suitable horses for me, so I ride them all randomly. There's two which suits me quite well, but they can't work all the time so
I've been once allowed to ride a pony (13,9 hands, he was in all ways too small for me). I was shocked about it but it went well and the pony is still okey. It isn't something which happens a lot, but in here it's possible.

I trust that people sees when something goes wrong and notices if horse is uncomfortable.

Now what I'd like to ask you is am I able to continue riding in UK? It feels like I'm too heavy to ride there and I somehow understand why but still it feels so strange. Is my only way to ride there loose weight or attend shire horseriding lessons? I've also have a dream about a great manor and horses, but would anybody sell a horse for me?

 

[Anglebracket]

This is quite old topic but I'd like to give you an aspect from other country and of course ask what are my chances to continue my hobby in UK when I move in.

Here, in Finland, people doesn't really think this weight thing as much as you seems to. The stables doesn't use to have any kind of weight limits even though they won't let somebody who weights over 20 stones ride their horses.

I'm 14 stones, 5'9'', pretty big girl so to speak. The riding school I'm in doesn't have much suitable horses for me, so I ride them all randomly. There's two which suits me quite well, but they can't work all the time so
I've been once allowed to ride a pony (13,9 hands, he was in all ways too small for me). I was shocked about it but it went well and the pony is still okey. It isn't something which happens a lot, but in here it's possible.

I trust that people sees when something goes wrong and notices if horse is uncomfortable.

Now what I'd like to ask you is am I able to continue riding in UK? It feels like I'm too heavy to ride there and I somehow understand why but still it feels so strange. Is my only way to ride there loose weight or attend shire horseriding lessons? I've also have a dream about a great manor and horses, but would anybody sell a horse for me?

You would be able to buy a horse in the UK.

Weight restrictions vary between riding schools but you should be able to find one with a limit of 14 stones. Riding schools will also take your riding ability into consideration.

What height was the horse in cm that you describe as 13h9?

 

[The-mad-cat-lady]

Def need to attend shore horseriding sessions with two side by side so you could straddle both.
There is a UK law that limits riders weight to 7 stone.
Would like to see your 13.9hh .

 

[Trinity Fox]

I think where this gets confused is that these calculations are based on a fit not fat horse with muscle, recent research shows length of back width of loin width of bone age type and fitness all count.

Although I think when over a certain weight no horse should be lugging you round it does make me laugh when people say it was bred for that or they were made to carry that horses did not start off carrying weights on their backs they allow us to do this,you do not see them doing this in the wild through choice.
I think if you are sensible most people can find a horse to suit if not then if you really want to ride then lose weight I am constantly checking my weight especially when backing my young ones but I think it is well worth it because of the pleasure I get.

 

[Orangehorse]

When the calculation of 20% maximum of the horse's weight, this refers to a horse in good, fit condition, not a pig-fat unfit horse.

I think people underestimate how much horses can carry, as a TB is expected to carry 12 st 7lb or even more in a point to point and gallop and jump for three miles.

In the USA the quarter horses are quite small yet seem to carry full grown men easily enough.

The critical measurement is width across the loins, so a small stocky horse can be quite as wide as a taller horse, so bigger does not always mean stronger.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Am in love! Beautiful lad! Love his colour.

 

[1Lucie]

Umm when i purcahsed my boy i was told by the vet he could carry up to 16stone. He is a 16hh1 heavy weight irish sports horse (mostly chunky draft).

 

[phantomhorse]

Def need to attend shore horseriding sessions with two side by side so you could straddle both.
There is a UK law that limits riders weight to 7 stone.
Would like to see your 13.9hh .

Bitchy

 

[LND]

I meant 145cm, and every way really graceful horse... You got such tricky measurements there!

There is a UK law that limits riders weight to 7 stone.

I almost might believe that! Nice to hear that you aren't so strict with restrictions I'm so fond or Irish breeds and all that hunting thing that I can't wait to take a part. Though loosing a few kilos wouldn't be too bad.

 

[Wagtail]

Well at 61 kilos I am one tenth the weight of my WB. So by that 1/5th rule she could carry two of me! I don't think so!

What about horses that are overweight? They are already carrying the equivalent of a person in some cases. The weight rule is a load of old tosh. You have to use your knowledge of the horse and common sense. Two horses of the same weight and height cannot carry the same amount of weight. It depends a lot on conformation, age, health and fitness.

IMO there are far too many horses carrying too much weight. I just cringe at some of the combinations of horse and rider.

 

[bubbilygum]

It depends very much on the horses conformation as well as the fat/fit argument. My 15.1hh cob is roughly 600kg (a bit tubby mind) and I can't see he would struggle with a 19 stone rider, although I wouldn't encourage someone that weight to ride him! Also depends on the rider... I would rather a well balanced, muscular 16 stone rider on him than 12 stone of unbalanced fat!

 

[Puzzles]

19 stone is a very large person, whether they be obese or a rugby player. I imagine that not very many horse-riders are that weight anyway?