What woud you do..........?

M

Malibu

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 February 2006
Messages
2,191
Location
In the Saddle
Visit site
If you sent one of your horses to a trainer who is respected in the equestrian world and by you self. You put your trust into this trainer that the horse will be looked after, cared, ridden properly and it comes back lame with a serious injury to a leg.

The trainer then goes on to say it arrived like that but scans show that the injury is new.

Just wondering what any of you woudl do in that position of the owner?
crazy.gif
mad.gif
 
Firstly I would be very very angry
mad.gif
I would present said trainer with a vets report that stated the injury was new and see what they had to say. Unfortunately it might be difficult to prove how the accident happened and whether your agreement with the trainer covers 'accidents' - unlikely. If they continued to deny the injury happened whilst in their care I would seek legal advice.

Also - if they are claiming that the injury happened before they had the horse - why are they accepting horses for training that are clearly injured
confused.gif
 
Owner has to accept that unless there was a WRITTEN AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES they will have to sort out the horse themselves...
 
What injury is it?

I would also get my vet to write a report saying this is a new injury and send a letter to the trainer regarding this. I am sorry, but if the injury was already there, why did they continue working the horse????
 
As no one really knows what causes the sort of injury that your horse has, and it could be something that he has been carrying for a while and a bit more extra work just bought it out quicker I don't think that you can sue the trainer.

I agree that they should have contacted you straight away if they knew he was lame at the start of his stay with them.
 
Out of curiosity and not meaning to dismiss your obvious concern, but what do you want to achieve out of the situation? Your goal might affect how you proceed. Are you looking for compensation for medical bills? Some sort of refund? Information on what might have happened to the horse? Is there an insurance issue of some sort? Are you looking to "warn" people or punish the rider in some way?

What sort of provision was in place, if any? Was there a contract?

Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to prove exactly when and how a horse got hurt, sometimes even if the person is standing there watching. From your report though it sounds as if this was sudden and acute - the horse was sound then it was lame. Were you called immediately? Is it an injury which would show obvious signs of progression or was it sudden?

Unfortunately horses hurt themselves. Sometimes we can take every care and still they manage a private disaster. If you are looking to prove negligence you will have to show that the trainer was careless in some obvious way and/or ignored reasonable protocol. I hate to say it but it's difficult to get someone to hang themselves.

Is it related to a conformational issue? Is there any chance the horse could have had a pre-exissting condition? (In other words, is the "pre training" scan literally from the day the horse left your care?) Could the trainer have misunderstood any of your original information regarding the horse's soundness and/or history?

Sorry to play devil's advocate but you seem to want this person to take responsibility. No offence, but we only have your side of it and virtually no information so no one here can tell you if you are justified or not. If you are looking for a legal avenue then obviously full disclosure to a lawyer is the way to go.
 
The horse arrived on saturday night and I phoned to ask how he was settling in and trainer said he was very good boy etc. Then i phoned few days later, about a week down the line and trainer said he was taking a while to warm up, I stated this when telling said trainer about horse, said he has always been like that and its no problem as he works through it etc.

I know he is sensitive to ride but I thought a rider of such talent woudl be able to handle him as I am by no measn the best rider and I cope!

Anyway, I said I wanted to come over and was paying alot of money plus I sent him there to progress not go backwards. The trainer said they were busy but I insisted I wanted to come if not to bring more feed and mag rug and boots which I may add were never put on him unless I put them on!

When I went up trainer said he was slightly lame but was working through it so I said I woudl get vet us just to check as he is an expensive animal and a waste of her time and mine if he was just coping and not doing much else. Trainer then said just leave it a week and lets see. I stupidly listened thinking they had more experience than me etc . It just got worse and worse and trainer kept riding him even when I said just to leave it.
Anway i decided to get the vet out just before the week ended and He said it was to do with hock so of course all sorts of things went through my head!
Mum took Ru up to vets and got nerve blocking and scans to show it was suspensory upper ligament damage, thus he is off min for a year, may never come sound is the worse scenario and of course has cost us thousands, not to mention the half a grand bill from trainer.
I paid half of the bill and sent the other half as cheque which Trainer said never was received so sent another and never heard back but got phone call today insisting i sent payment or further action was to be taken. Now I am so upset becasue just had eventer pts because of tendon injury and within a few months ru is now lame with lig damage and I dont even get an explanation or sorry from the trainer.

I dont know what to do!
 
I dont want to sue manily because I have no proof other than he was sound then lame .

Scans show it is a new injury although the last time hewas scanned prior to injury scanning was 11 months ago when he passed a 5 * vetting with full scans and tons of xrays, he was presented to a vet to be scanned about june of last year but he said it was a waste of money to scan as his legs felt and looked great so I have no proof at all.

But.......... I resent the fact that i now have a lame expensive horse and trainer has nothing to say about it other than he arrived like that, which is utter BS as trainer, grooms, liverys saw him plus other people on the day can prove he was not lame.

Should i just give the rest of the money and walk away from it all, although I think I will have to drop it off myself after 2 cheques go missing!!!!
 
He may not have arrived lame - but why is it the Pro riders fault that he has now gone lame??

Horses do break unfortunately........
frown.gif
 
I don't think the pro rider has particularly helped themselves by admitting that the horse was slightly lame but they worked through it. Horses do break but they should have stopped working it and contacted you to find out how you wished to proceed. Just my initial thoughts.
 
Firstly I want to say how sorry I feel for you.
frown.gif
We send our horses away hoping and trusting that they will be looked after but as someone else said, they do get injured, whether at home or away.
What I have a problem with is your trainer denying that your horse was injured there? You know you wouldn't have sent a lame horse away for training, because that is just throwing money down the drain. Why the heck can people not just be honest? I believe you that your horse was sound when you sent it away, so how the heck can they stand there and blatantly lie in your face?

It's a very crappy situation you are in and I hope your trainer comes clean and apologises for what's happened, whether it was an accident or not.
mad.gif
 
Sorry to hear about your horse, I hope in time he comes right for you. I'm also sorry to say that I don't think you have much come back against the professional, horses often do break down with increased workload, professionals couldn't offer a service if it wasn't owners who carry the risk of this. I would however do my best to spread the word that in your experience this particular professional does not take responsible care of horses in their charge - they carry on working them when they are aware of undiagnosed lameness and let the damage to their buisness and reputation begin.
 
Looking at this as an outsider it sounds as if the trainer felt uneasy about your horse from day one. The lameness was probably the sort that sometimes disappears as the horse gets more supple with bending and stretching excercises, and I doubt it was that apparent or he/she would have stopped.
What has happened is it is now an obvious injury, sometimes the vet will suggest you work a horse until something concrete shows up, but I prefer to scan at an early stage rather than make something worse, but it is done, why do you think they use concrete to lunge horses on at specialist centres, it's to make an injury show up.. perhaps the trainer was going down that line but they certainly should have advised you at that stage.
I can see you feel the trainer has neglected your horse and this is how the injury has happened , but I really think it probably existed when it arrived even if masked by a reluctance to warm up.. The scans will show the injury is there not when it occurred, unless you had the horse scanned immediately prior to taking it there. And if it was an injury that was caused by an accident I'm sorry these things happen, and it's part of horse ownership.
I would talk to the trainer rather than withold money, ask if you can have a discount as to be fair, the horse came back no better than it arrived and you feel they haven't treated you very well.
I don't think sueing will get you anywhere, as someone who has been involved in that path several times believe me it costs thousands and thousands of pounds and the only people who make money are the barristers at over £1500 a day in court!
Concentrate on getting your horse better and try and resolve things by talking if possible, did the trainer not suggest getting the vet out to the horse the first week?
i would expect a strongly worded letter to said trainer explaining how disappointed you feel at being let down by someone of their reputation may get you some discount..but it depends on how your relationship is now..
 
I have been trying to think of how to work what HH said....and I agree, with her, she just came up with better words than me.

Not great for you, but that's life unfortunately.
 
I accept that horses break but the rider working a lame horse would concern me and I most certainly would not send them the second half. The whole being busy and not wanting you to come up strikes suspicion into me too.
Sorry to hear as well, at the end of the day its you not the rider who has to deal with it for a year
frown.gif
 
I'm afraid to say that what you have written about how Ru takes a while to warm up is classic PSD. He had it when he went there. If he hadn't gone to the trainer he would still have gone lame. It is really sad that it has happened.

Why hasn't your vet suggested either Shockwave Treatment or an operation? PSD can be cured and you could be back competing him this year.
 
I wanted to add... Although the PSD could have been there when the horse was sent to the trainer, a good trainer in my personal opinion should have spotted the reluctance immediately. When Spencer saw Grace working, he asked me whether he could sit on her because he could see something very minor. He sat on her and said he could feel it slightly too and I should take her to the vet asap.

Because of this, Grace's acute damage to the suspensory ligament was caught very early on in its injury and I am forever indebted to Spencer for that!!! However, what I am trying to say is that Grace was never lame, she was not difficult to warm up, she was just not 100% right. And yet he said he did not want her worked further than that day (she did the injury we believe the previous day). Surely, another trainer should also have been able to see this/feel this and followed the same route? Or at least they should have asked Tophorse whether they would like the vet to have a look at the horse as soon as he was not right rather than 'riding him through it'?
 
Thanks Becki, that is my point exactly, it is the fact the said trainer did not attend to the problem well, it may not be trainers fault for start of injury but the care after was not good at all.
 
Just wanted to add that Tophorse told me at the time when all this was going on, and voiced her concerns to me. Said trainer is one of the top riders in the country and personally i think they should never have carried on riding Ru. The communication from the trainer involved to Tophorse was minimal, and trainer was always putting Tophorse off from going to visit saying that they were busy, or away etc. Tophorse sent Ru to this trainer to help progress his training whilst she had a lack of facilities over the winter - for the trainer to keep riding Ru when they knew he was lame and that there was a problem constitutes as a serious lack of professionalism in my eyes. I had thought highly of this person until all this started going on, im afraid my view has completly changed now.
 
Firstly ,so sorry to read this post
My friend is going through a similar situation but doesn't in anyway blame the trainer.Her horse was showing certain problems such as hanging his tongue out and he did 'put his back out' and have treatment for this.She sent the horse away for a months schooling before regionals but the horse has gone lame with suspensory hind leg problems .These problems were probably always there but the extra work has aggrevated it .
Was your horse sent away because he was displaying behaviour problems ,these are often pain related and the extra work may have made these worse.
Working through a problem is not often a good idea as the horse has only one way to show pain!
I feel so sorry for you but think you are best just to try to mend the horse.Sorry
 
After reading Tempi's post ,I think the rider should have noticed all was not well and stopped work .Any problem will get worse with schooling and schooling can quickly increase an injury if it is intensive.
My friend's trainer did phone her immediately there was a problem and scans were done and work stopped
 
Oh I can so top that one, send over a oyung healthy horse that has been working every day for sale livery, it gets gelded , they ring up and say he's lame giving him a week off but gelding went fine. Saga continues horse is collected in full bandage with fetlock problems and scans form their vet.

Investigation shows fetlock is fine but massive bone chip in stifle with assosiated ligament damage . Damage can only have happened form either a hefty kick from shod foot even then unlikey more likey damage from jumping a fence and not making it. Damage is many weeks old.

No come back as no written contract.

Horses - personally I shall try my damdest never to send one away for anything ever again.
 
Oh no, this sounds like such an awful situation. I really feel for you. I really don't know what options you have though. I mean, you could go to a solicitor, but like others have said, unless you can prove certain things, I don't think there's much you can do. Do you want this person to pay the vet's bills? Or some kind of compensation? It's a tricky one but I wish you all the best and hope that your horse gets better asap.
 
I understand where you're coming from - but didn't Tophorse tell the trainer that the horse took a while to warm up? Perhaps the trainer was thinking that the problem may've been a stiffness/joint issue which worked looser, if Tophorse had said the horse became better for warming up maybe they were just taking this advice?
Not taking sides - just think horses are horses and they break really easily!
frown.gif

Kate x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top