What would you do - loan pony - looooooong

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SouthWestWhippet

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To be honest, I think I have pretty much made my mind up but I wondered if I could get a few objective views from you experienced horse people.

My pony has recently come back from loan early as the people who had him a) the girl had lost interest and b) tricky family situation meant they were likely to be about to lose their field. I'm very VERY happy about this as I really wanted him back. With him, I also took on loan from them a 12.2hh pony to act partly as a companion and partly as a LR pony for my 22 MONTH old daughter. I took the 12.2 knowing he was very sensitive but assured he was bomb-proof on the LR. The idea was that I could also ride him myself a little bit if necessary (I'm 8stone) but basically he would be for leading my daughter up and down the road/round the field and doing the odd showing class for a laugh.

The LR pony has been with me for a week. He is tricky to catch (I was warned about this) but ok once he has been bribed into the 'coralle' area with a bucket of food. Otherwise he as proved lovely on the ground. Under saddle is a different story.

The first time I took him out, I rode him bareback (girth did not fit) up the road and back with my pony accompanying (lead by my DP). He was spooky but ok. I then put my daughter on him and attempted to lead him quietly around the yard (in full view of my pony). Although she was just sat there quietly, he proceeded to buck/hump several times. I put it down to newness and thought nothing of it.

The next day I attempted to take him for a walk up and down the road with me riding, by ourselves. I had a saddle this time. I mounted VERY slowly and gently (as if I were getting on a newly backed pony), but the moment I asked him to walk on he threw himself around bucking and leaping to the point where he slipped over and landed on his side. I dismounted, got him up, lead him quietly down the road until he relaxed then remounted and rode him about 100yards up and down the road. He was very very tense but did nothing. I thought perhaps this was because he was anxious leaving the other pony however, when I spoke to the owner she said "oh yes, sorry forgot to tell you he is cold backed".

The vet came to vaccinate him and I asked his opinion. He had a look and said pony was tense and stiff in his back but without getting him fitter, would be hard to tell where problem lay and that i should lunge him. I noticed that he was very flinchy and dipped his back/swished his tail if you touched the saddle area while grooming

I lunged him the next day and he was very shuffly at first, could hardly manage a canter and then started to look unlevel so I stopped.

Two days later, (I was working so couldn't ride) I decided to try again thinking he may have settled. Tacked up gently, lead him round then popped daughter on and lead him up the road FOLLOWING my pony. He was still tense, I didn't feel very happy but wanted to persevere. Then a woman came out of her house and put a bin at the side of the road. My pony walked past but other pony stopped, froze then started to whip round nearly having my daughter off. Basically if anyone less expereinced had been leading her (I'm an BHSAI, I teach in riding schools and am very used to dealing with ponies and small children), she would have been on her head. As it was, she was upset for the first time while riding.

So..... [cookies if you get this far] I am thinking that he is not the pony for us because
> I know he is sensitive and needs time to settle but my daughter is a BABY and I really do need a 100% plod along for her and I just can't see this pony fitting the bill.
> I can see myself spending a lot of money getting him 'right' for him to still be too spooky for me to trust anyone but me leading him.
> I'm not enjoying taking my daughter out on him
> his bad back means I can't ride him
> apparently he doesn't do ride and lead
> apparently he doesn't really like jumping.

I guess it is a no-brainer really but a small part of me wonders if perhaps I should give him longer to settle in. Then other part says, yes for sure if it was a horse for ME but surely if he was ever going to be the plod I need, he would be the sort of pony that is already settled in after a week in a quiet new home with a simple straightforward routine.

So reassure I'm doing the right thing (or tell me I'm unreasonable). THANKS and sorry for the long post
 
Gosh you weren't kidding about the "long" were you? ;)

Hmm, tricky one - if it was me I think I would be tempted to give him a bit longer to settle in and I'd get my osteopath to check him over and see what she said. At least he will do a job as a companion for the winter...

BUT I totally appreciate that you can't take any chances at all with your little girl AND why should you pay lots of money to try to fix a problem that might not be fixable.

So I can see both sides...as you say, your little girl absolutely must come first. If you can afford to keep him over the winter to do a job as a companion and if you don't mind shelling out for a couple of osteo/chiro visits to see if that does the trick then you never know, he might turn out to be a little star.

Sorry that's not really a hard and fast answer.

ETA i have had ponies who settled in straight away and others who took months to truly relax, depends on the pony's temperament and past experiences IMO.
 
Yes, if you can't trust him to even carry you safely, then I do not think you can expect him to carry a baby safely.

From reading this (and I am not being judgemental, you obviously know him better than me!) I don't think I would've risked putting a baby on him again after how he has been with you on him and the first time she was on.

How is the other pony, the one that came back to you? Would s/he be suitable to plod around with a little one on board?
 
"surely if he was ever going to be the plod I need, he would be the sort of pony that is already settled in after a week in a quiet new home with a simple straightforward routine"

I think this sums it up - you need to put your daughter's safety and welfare first. Its a shame for the pony as he may come right but he's clearly not bombproof, which sounds like what you are needing for your young daughter.
 
Thank you everyone, sorry about the long but I have posted on forums before and tried to be brief and then ended up having to 'explain' myself and looking as if Im drip feeding...

I agree re putting her on him again, I think it was probably not the best decision but I kinda trusted MYSELF to keep her safe rather than him (arrogant much?) She won't ride him again.

Sadly I only have one acre of grazing ATM, both ponies are fatties but if I'm going to get a pony for my daughter, it would have to be at the expense of the other one going home. He has apparently already have the summer off so I'm not sure that another winter is going to show a huge change other than that he might be more settled in his new home. With a toddler in tow, I only work part time so am not very flush - I obviously pay for what my ponies need but am loathe to pay to *possibly* sort out someone elses pony that might not even be suitable for my needs... I know it is selfish but money isn't a bottomless reserve for me by a long way. :(

Daughter can def ride the other one who is sharp in his way but not unpredicatable IYKNWIM. He's 14hh though so we couldn't do any LR classes which I do enjoy!
 
I find it strange that the lady 'forgot' to mention that the pony is cold backed surely that should have been one of the first things she told you. I am sure that there must be a more suitable pony out there that you and your daughter to enjoy.
 
Possibly amymay, I've been using a cub saddle with a gel pad and a numnah. I thought cub saddles were a fairly universal fit though I'm happy to be told otherwise. He wasn't right on the lunge though (without a saddle) which makes me wonder.
 
From experience I would send it back. There are lots of lovely ponies out there and if the owners were not totally honest or up front with you from the start there may well be lots of issues further down the line. I indeed took a pony on loan for my son and as a result of it rearing up and tipping over backwards it knocked his confidence and now 3 years on he still gets upset when his gorgeous sure footed, genuine and reliable pony goes past the spot where it happened.

Afterwards I learned that this pony often rears - so tell me how do owners live with themselves knowing children are going to ride these animals.

Let it be someone else's problem and do not risk your child's safety.
 
Last year I loaned a pony with a view to buying after 6 months, for my daughter who was 10 at the time. I was promised it was a first pony and great in every way and she was great when we tried her. From day 1 she was a nightmare. Couldn't even get her off the yard without a full rear with daughter on board. She reared, bucked, took off for home, reared and charged off in hand, charged at us in the field, took ages to catch. I worked hard with groundwork, leading out in hand and basically establishing boundaries and respect. I had her teeth and back checked, had a new saddle fitted and even spent money on a Kelly Marks Recommended Associate to come for a day to do work with her. After two and a half months there was a bit of an improvement but by this stage my daughter was too worried by her to ride her and didn't even like going in the field. I finally came to my sensed and said enough was enough. I didn't have the time, money or experience to work through this pony's problems and we wanted a pony that my daughter could ride and enjoy now, not a project pony. By this time both my daughter and I had become terribly attached to the pony and it was absolutely hearbreaking to send her back. We have since heard that it took her owner a year to get her to the stage where her daughter was happy to ride her and she is a strong, pretty brave rider. They apparantly used to tie her head down with baling twine to stop the rearing!!! Certainly NOT a first pony. It made me so angry that the owner knew my daughters abilities and that it was a first pony we wanted and was happy for us to take this pony, knowing what she was like. Shortly after we bought an adorable pony. We have had a few ups and downs with him but no pony is perfect and we wouldn't be without him now. When it comes to children its vital to put safety first and for them to build their confidence, not have it knocked down like my daughter did.

A small point: our physio/McTimmony practitioner said to me last week she hates the phrase 'cold backed' and that people should be saying 'sore backed'. Perhaps you should have someone check out her back
 
Personally, I would send him back if that is an option - he is loaned so i guess it is? before you and/or daughter get too attached and start to feel sorry for him. I have a pony for myself that is not really suitable, but have now had him 3yrs trying to 'make' him suitable, never gonna happen. But don;t want to send him home as I feel a duty towards him......
 
You already know the answer to this dilema.

Send the pony back.

He's not what you / your daughter need and it will only end up with your daughter either loosing her confidence completely or worse, getting injured.

As you had ridden him bareback the first time I doubt it will be the cub saddle causing him issues, sounds like he has back problems which need to be looked at but I personally don't think that it is your responsibility if he is not suitable for what you want.

Harsh maybe and you will probably want to do the best by the pony but it's not your responsibility, its the owners.

Had a similar situation with my novice / nervous son with a loan pony. He ended up loosing all his confidence as she was sharp and not really suited but I wanted to give her the time etc to settle. Had her a year and finally conceeded defeat and notified owners of my intention to return her. I was lucky enough to be able to find a new home and worked with the owner to place her with a capable 10 year old girl. Followed pony to new home to see her settled and was in tears and blubbing everywhere :rolleyes:

Knew it was for the best though. We now have a very steady Welsh A and slowly my son is getting his confidence back but only just managing to do a bit of trotting and this is 9 months since he got bolted with.

At the end of the day your priority is with your daughter and her wellbeing.
 
OFG said:
You already know the answer to this dilema.

Send the pony back.

He's not what you / your daughter need and it will only end up with your daughter either loosing her confidence completely or worse, getting injured.

As you had ridden him bareback the first time I doubt it will be the cub saddle causing him issues, sounds like he has back problems which need to be looked at but I personally don't think that it is your responsibility if he is not suitable for what you want.

Harsh maybe and you will probably want to do the best by the pony but it's not your responsibility, its the owners.

Had a similar situation with my novice / nervous son with a loan pony. He ended up loosing all his confidence as she was sharp and not really suited but I wanted to give her the time etc to settle. Had her a year and finally conceeded defeat and notified owners of my intention to return her. I was lucky enough to be able to find a new home and worked with the owner to place her with a capable 10 year old girl. Followed pony to new home to see her settled and was in tears and blubbing everywhere :rolleyes:

Knew it was for the best though. We now have a very steady Welsh A and slowly my son is getting his confidence back but only just managing to do a bit of trotting and this is 9 months since he got bolted with.

At the end of the day your priority is with your daughter and her wellbeing.
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Exactly. Sounds like the owners were not being quite honest.
 
Your daughter is the priority here and even if you spend time and money on this pony there's no guarantee he will be right for her at the end of it. Send him back and let the owner sort it out.
 
you are probably not going to like what i am going to say - but as a professional with a background in child protection, you may want to consider this
you have posted on a public forum that the loan pony presents a clear & present danger to your very young child, if she was to sit on the pony again & be injured [ perhaps seriously] you are in the same position as a family who continue to own a dog who has shown agression to a child & then went on to attack that or another child - these familys' can & do have child protection investigations started - not because they are bad parents but because they did not remove a known danger & therefore did not act in the best interests of their children.
there are lots of litttle lawn mower pets out there that would be a better match for your very tiny child.
 
How badly do you want a pony that the child can ride?

That's what it seems to boil down to.

Charlie76 is having to sell off/give away small riding school ponies on the sales thread, perhaps you shoud PM her? :)
 
I would send him back. The kind of pony you need walks off a trailer somewhere new and doesn't blink! What else is right for a toddler?

Your daughters safety must come first.
 
It sounds like the owners may well not be too terribly aware, if your own pony is 14hh then perhaps their daughter outgrew the little one some time ago, he may well have been a star in his day but is older and unfit now by the sounds of it

Perhaps they were desperate for a good outcome for the pony because they were faced with losing it so 'talked him up' a bit

At the end of the day you want a safe pony and though their situation is possibly rocky thats not your fault
 
rubysmum said:
you are probably not going to like what i am going to say - but as a professional with a background in child protection, you may want to consider this
you have posted on a public forum that the loan pony presents a clear & present danger to your very young child, if she was to sit on the pony again & be injured [ perhaps seriously] you are in the same position as a family who continue to own a dog who has shown agression to a child & then went on to attack that or another child - these familys' can & do have child protection investigations started - not because they are bad parents but because they did not remove a known danger & therefore did not act in the best interests of their children.
there are lots of litttle lawn mower pets out there that would be a better match for your very tiny child.
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thank you Rubysmum, i will not disagree that your post was a little tough to read but I do totally agree with you. Whilst I was thinking along the same lines as you have written, having it put this starkly is actually very helpful. Please do rest assured that my daughter WILL NOT be getting on this pony again.

I am not making excuses but I have a background in working with reschooling/project horses and an interest in the subject which probably made me a bit too focused on the pony rather than on my daughter the second time she rode him. I will not make that mistake again. x
 
thank you everyone, as I said, had already come to the decision that he was not suitable for my daughter but the 'soft horse-mad' part of me was angsting that I should hold onto him for his sake and see if he would come right with some time/money/physio etc.

Please rest assured I won't put my daughter on him again, I made a poor judgement the second time she rode him now I reflect on it and I won't repeat the error.

Poor little pony, i think he is sore in his back but hopefully he will find a home where he will be more suitable. thanks again
 
Think I would send him back. He is not what you needed. Be kind to yourself though. It's not your fault they weren't totally honest about him.
 
Haven't read all the messages so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said.
Sounds like the pony has a back problem so I wouldn't be riding it or lunging it at all till I got that sorted. I can understand you don't want to fork out money for this when he may be going home. Can the owners pay or contribute to a physio/back person coming out? I'm assuming that you are happy to keep him for the moment as a companian for your own pony. If they will I'd persue that first, and see how he's goes then. If not I'd tell them he's unsuitable and he will be coming back when you've found another pony and keep your ears open for a suitable replacement.
Also it's none of my business but I think 22 months is too little to be riding at all. I'd want more muscle tone, strength and co-ordination before in place before I put a kid on a pony, just my opinion FWIW! :)
 
have read the thread and im sure youre intentions are good but i find it unbelievable that you would put a 22 month old child on a pony you didnt know and that you already had concerns about. hoping this is a lesson learnt and glad that nothing bad has happened in the meantime..
 
SouthWestWhippet said:
thank you Rubysmum, i will not disagree that your post was a little tough to read but I do totally agree with you. Whilst I was thinking along the same lines as you have written, having it put this starkly is actually very helpful. Please do rest assured that my daughter WILL NOT be getting on this pony again.

I am not making excuses but I have a background in working with reschooling/project horses and an interest in the subject which probably made me a bit too focused on the pony rather than on my daughter the second time she rode him. I will not make that mistake again. x
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I am very relieved that you were not offended by my comments - i ummed & ahhed about posting but am glad you read it in the spirit intended - truly hope that you find a lovely little first pony for your daughter:)
 
the BHSAI in you should wonder why no riding school can get insurance for any child under the age of 4. your child is not even 2 so not capable of anything. send the pony back. wait 2 yrs and get a 20+ pony who is child safe.
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
the BHSAI in you should wonder why no riding school can get insurance for any child under the age of 4. your child is not even 2 so not capable of anything. send the pony back. wait 2 yrs and get a 20+ pony who is child safe.
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This is not actually true, RDA in particular has no lower age limit and as an RDAGI I have taught children younger even than my daugther with. The riding school where I work has insurance lower than four, they choose not take children under four in general however as they need experienced leaders (rather than teenage helpers) and a one-to-one teaching setting in order to fully participate in the experience.

Thank you for your thoughts but I wasn't looking for advice on whether I should sit my daughter on a pony or not, she absolutely adores it and begs to "up on horse" whenever she sees one. However, i will be looking at finding a companion for my pony who is 100% bombproof and she can enjoy sitting on a couple of times a week.
 
I personally would only put a 2-yr old on a well known, older, proven (to me) to be a bomb proof pony. I would also not be riding a 12.2hh even at 8 stone. I suspect he's never been broken in properly. Children get killed on naughty/flighty/in pain horses. It cannot be worth the risk, unless you pay the money (probably quite a bit these days) and get the right pony and I always believe that a good ole fashioned schoolmaster in their 20s is ideal for young children. Send him back. I also echo comments re riding schools and insurance
 
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