What would you do - sorry long

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Abandluc

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I really would like people's feelings on this, as I really don't know what to do. I'll try to keep it simple

Our boxer who is 81/2yrs has recently been diagnosed with an auto immune disease which in basic terms means, his body is attacking itself.
His symtoms were bleeding from the gums and uclers on his tongue, as you can imagine he looked quite poorly.
Now the good news is it's responsing well to steriods and we are now gradually trying to decrease them to see what the lower dose acceptable for him is.

Now the problems start because he has arthirtis in his shoulders which have been controlled by metacam for the pass 2 years, although it is evident that it is becoming worse (he is limping more).
Now because he is on steriods he can't have metacam and the dosage (of steriods) now is 75mg every other day (it was 75mg everyday). It doesn't seem strong enough to control the arthirtis which means he has one good day (the day he has steriods) and one bad day. - we are due to see the vet in 2 weeks but i'm planning on ringing him before then to tell him this problem.

He has also got a weak cruicate ligament in a hind leg (the other hind leg ligament snapped 2years ago, which was operated on and is now fine)
They can not operate on the other hind leg because the high dose of steriods can cause problems on operating table. So basically if that ligament did snap now we would have no options than PTS.

Buster is still lively, alert and still runs around the farm, barking at cars that come in etc. But he sleeps more, is limping more and I can't help thinking that we are prolonging the inevertable (sp?) and are we being fair on him.
The other part of me thinks that while he is still lively, eating drinking and leading a relatively normal life albeit in some discomfort then we owe it to him to do what we can to keep him alive.

Sorry it's so long but would appericate peoples thoughts on this, we really don't know what is best for him.

PS the vet is happy to treat him and has no doubt that at this moment we are doing the right thing but i know Buster better than him and I see him all the time, wheres the vet sees him for 10minutes every 3weeks.
 
I think the answer is in your last sentence. You know Buster better than anyone. You will know when the time has come to be the best friend he can ever have. If he is still a happy boy, eating and wanting to be reasonably active then I would keep doing what you are doing. Maybe discuss alternative traetments for his arthritis with your vet.
 
Our old boxer Malic had cardiomyopathy, thyroid problems and then he was diagnosed with a brain tumour that caused him to have fits. All were controlled with drugs, except the tumour and he was 11 years old. He had regular tests and wasnt in any pain although he understandably slowed down because of the tumour. When he was diagnosed with the tumour the specialist vet asked if we wanted to PTS that day. We spoke to our own vet who said we could control the fits but couldnt stop the tumour growing but regardless he thought we should still continue with the treatment.

We made our own mind up that once Malic stopped enjoying his walks the time had come. He lasted another 9 months and and thankfully the end came very quickly. We didnt have the agonising decision to make in the end because Malic did it for us. One day he just couldnt get up and the vet thought he was in multiple organ failure so he was PTS. We had no choice and Malic told us he had had enough.

You will know when the time is right, when he stops enjoying his walks and his eyes will tell you.
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I think I will have similar problems, arthritis wise, with my 2 year old Rotty. He has problems with his cruciates and has had both operated on in the last 2 years. He does have some arthritis in the joints. Currently he is not on any treatment other than a joint supplement butI know we will probably have some tough decisions to make in his future.
 
Thank you.

I think i sort of know in my mind. that the day he doesn't ask to go out or for his food or doesn't rush out to a car coming is the day we say goodbye.
My daughter who is nearly 4 is besotted with him and she crys now if he is not in when she gets up in the morning. it is going to be so tough for her and i just hope we can prepare her for it.

I appericate your comments xx
 
My vets offer acupuncture as an alternative treatment for arthritis, I have heard of some dogs it has helped and others it hasn't. Might be worth finding if there is anyone local who offers it. Other than that I can just echo what others have said, you know your dog and you will know when he has had enough. I sympathise with you regarding your daughter, I find the hardest part of losing an animal is seeing my childrens grief. Hope you have Buster for a good while yet.
 
I'm in the same position with Indie and I swore I wouldn't be one of those people who dragged out the inevitable but now I can't be objective at all. We had a long chat in the garden last week (just me and her, seriously
crazy.gif
) after she stumbled and fell while we were out for a walk and I just had the feeling from her that she was fine, just old and a bit knackered. I don't know how i'll make the final decision but I hope it becomes obvious and that's what I'd advise for you too. No one knows him like you and only you can tell when he's had enough but it doesn't sound too bad at the moment. Can the vet suggest anything else you can use with the steroids?
 
The problem for me is that Boxers are bred to be lively and alert all through their life but as the others have said, if you're observant of your dog's signals and sees what you really see and not what you want to see, you will know when it is time. I will also strongly second MurphysMinder suggestion about trying acupuncture.

This far it has helped 3 of my late dogs;

First one, needed it due to hip dysplasia + one with age one of her vertebra had developed a thorn and later on when she anyway was needing to have acupuncture, she also got two ear needles due to old age deafness, 1 x 6 times of acupuncture per year since she was about 8 years old and she didn't need any painkillers for the hips or vertebra.
About the hearing, before acupuncture she wasn't able to hear that someone was coming up behind her if her ears wasn't turned in the "right" direction and even if they were in in the right direction, if you where 5 to 10 meters away from her, you had to shout for her to hear you. After acupuncture she could hear us coming up behind her even with the ears in the wrong direction and she could hear us without that we needed to shout at her from about 15 meters distance.

Second dog had a hind leg that grew askew when she was young and from when she was maybe 7 years old she got acupuncture once a year, when she also got old age deafness we did as with the first dog and added ear needles. 1 x 6 times meant that she didn't need painkillers for her leg and she also began hearing as "well" as the first dog did after having needles at the ear base.

Third dog had some vertebras that grew together when she was old, she only got acupuncture 1 x 5 times once, because the year after, just as we had planned to begin a new acupuncture period, she had to be euthanized due to cancer at 12 years of age. She hadn't needed any painkillers during her last year.



Also my oldest cat soon almost 4 years ago was diagnosed with three grown together vertebras and we tried Metacam, after some days she got better but my vets thinks Metacam should only be given to cats for two weeks in a row and then they have to have 2 weeks off. So after a while on and off Metacam, in one off period we decided to try acupuncture instead. First we had to persuade the person doing the acupuncture and after some hm and hrm's, she said that since our dogs was so easy to do, she agreed to give it a try.
Now Selma has only needed to have 1 x 4 times per year the first two years off Metacam but this year when it had been a year since the last treatment period she was still jumping up to her cat food (bowl stands on a place out of the dogs reach), still being able to bend enough to clean her bottom when she wants it and she scratches our cat trees, so more than 1,5 year later we haven't re-done it yet. (Actually I just saw her scratch a cat tree as I type this.) All I know is that the three vertebras that was causing her problem, is still grown together but she still doesn't need any Metacam.



This far I have used two different acupuncturist and both have said the following, dogs needs 5 to 10 times with from 1 week to 1 month between (I have this far chosen to go with 1 to 2 weeks between). The needles should sit at least 25 minutes and should be twisted at least once (preferably more) meanwhile they're in and it should not just be right before they're removed. After the acupuncture it is good if you can take the dog for an about 10 to 20 minutes walk. (The walking was not an option with my cat.)

The dogs have responded differently fast on it but in general it has been like this, after the first time they sleep in much more relaxed sleeping positions but it usually only lasts some days (that is why in the beginning I always prefer going once a week), after the second time they've slept more relaxed all the time up to it was time for next weeks visit and sometimes there has also been other changes to the better but sometimes the other changes hasn't came until after the third visit, usually after the third visit things really begins to improve.

None of my dogs though, have responded as fast as the cat, after the first time she came home and in less than 5 minutes she had already cleaned her bottom thoroughly two times (we had thought that she maybe had stopped doing it because she was going senile). After the third time she didn't really think she needed any more acupuncture but because she knows it is easier to just endure my ideas when I have them, she still reluctantly accepted a fourth treatment. The second year she thought she was cured after the second visit and the next two visits she couldn't resist to sometimes sort of try to crawl off the table.



My only other contact with acupuncture was when my late granddad tried it for a bad knee (years before my first dog had her first treatment), he went one time and when the knee wasn't cured, he decided that acupuncture didn't work.
Although my late granddad's experience, I'm a firm believer in acupuncture.

About your daughter, with my sisters children (my brother-in-law is allergic so they don't have own pets) we began telling them when they were about 3 years old, that we will do anything to keep our pets alive as long as they enjoy living but that we will always do what is best for them.

Good luck.
 
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