what would you do with a rearer?

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Hurtle

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I have a ten year old gelding that I have persevered with for 5 years. This weekend he bucked me off in the dressage warm up of a competition giving me suspected fractured vertebrae.

He has never done this before but has a degree in rearing and napping. Bucking until he got me off is a new one.

He is the sweetest friendliest horse to handle and I trust him to look after my novice daughter and husband whilst hacking a well known route that he is totally comfortable with.

The issue is competing; I have been dealing with this behaviour for years, whilst trying to event him. Which has improved but the last 6 times out of 7 I have taken him out this year he has napped and or gone up on me.

I have taken him to a multiple Olympic gold medallist for lessons, tried Richard Maxwell and even horse psychics.

I have now decided enough is enough but don’t know what to do with him. I cannot afford to keep him as a field ornament. I am worried about selling or loaning him because of his behaviour issues – he is a confirmed rearer and now bucks.

He has evented this year to BE100 level, has lots of DCs showjumping at BN and will work to elementary dressage. On paper he is a super horse but has these mental issues when competing. However, can also be nappy out hacking by himself.

I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps the kindest thing to guarantee his future is to have him put to sleep. My major worry is that he seriously injures or kills someone else or ends up with a really horrible life going from home to home.

What would you do?
 
If you haven't already, I'd get him looked at by a really good diagnostic competition horse vet - somewhere like Willesley or Newmarket. Not a bog standard equine practice I am afraid.

If they find nothing, then you have to decide whether you are happy to keep him and only work within his comfort zone or if you would like a horse to do more with - in your shoes I would also be thinking PTS
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Could you not advertise him, but be totally honest, that way people would know exactly what they are taking on. As you point out he is a talented horse, and as long as you tell the truth then someone may feel they want to give him a go. Good luck x
 
Had very similar problems with my lovely boy. He broke my ribs after a bucking explosion but has always had tendency to rear, particularly when faced with a drop fence or going downhill. Please get him checked out thoroughly - xrays/scans etc. Really don't want to upset you but the diagnosis for my boy was severe kissing spines. He can never jump again but it is possible that he could be a light hack, after physio (loads), shock wave treatment plus steroid injections for pain. He is joy to handle but obviously he reached a point when he couldn't cope with the pain anymore. Good luck and hope you find a solution.
 
He was checked out a few years ago, he did show some signs of bone spavin which have been treated and I manage.

He has always had a nappy streak, eg would rear and have a tantrum when I tried to bring him in from the field and make him leave his friends.
 
as above, as long as you are sure it isn't pain related i think you are right to look at PTS.

tbh, even if the full veterinary work up DID show anything- would it really change the situation?
he would still be unhappy in his work and even if you sorted any physical problems the mental ones leftover may never be resolved.

i had a beautiful 3yro who i adored but he was so unpredictable to ride- one day fine, next day was an absolute bronco with rearing, fly bucking etc until you came off.
i perservered for 18 months before a trip in an air ambulance and a broken sternum.
i sold him to my boss to try and sort out, who thought he was so special he showed him to the National Eventing Team Manager.
however, even he couldn't straighten him out and he was so dangerous and unpredictable he was sadly PTS at the age of 5.

i still worry about whether we did the right thing but he was going to kill someone and neither i, nor my boss, felt comfortable letting someone else take their chance with him and i also think a horse like that can't be a happy horse.
 
I think you cannot go any further without a full workup as suggested above, a check up a few years back is irrelevant, it would be unfair to him to either continue or PTS without going down the diagnostic route.
 
The problem is that you can vet who you sell him to and be happy that they're totally aware of the situation but have no control of him after that - he could end up being sold on in a month or two to someone who has no idea of his history.

I would agree with the above - a fresh set of eyes might be helpful. Things may show up now which weren't visible when he was last checked, and scanning techniques etc. have come along hugely in the last few years.

Otherwise we have had similar horse PTS I'm afraid as the responsibility of passing them on was not one we were prepared to put up with.
 
If I was happy that the horse had no physical problems, I would have him PTS rather than pass him on. This is the only way to ensure that he does not get passed around and end up in a meat market. I am sorry you have been faced with this decision. It's not nice.
 
What would I do? Perhaps get someone else to ride him (a pro) and give me an independent assessment. Is he taking the P out of you? or is he uncomfortable somewhere? Perhaps you will never know but 5 years is a long time to perservere and it sounds as though he could really hurt you. I think you need to draw a line somewhere as you can't continue to put yourself at risk. He knows he can dispatch you with his new line of tricks and will no doubt try again.

I would not pass this horse on I'm afraid - you just never know where he might end up and it could be horrible
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Sounds a horrible situation - you are clearly attached to him for sticking with him for so long
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Tbh, a good horse willl cost as much as a blooming horrid horse to keep
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I would certainly be on tenterhooks everytime I got on it if it was threatening to buck/spi/nap etc everytime
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I would gte it checked over for my own piece of mind, but I would seriously be looking at PTS with that sort of attitude
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i had one pts for similar reasons, but she had congenitally weak tendons so couldn't be worked really hard to see if that would have helped.
tbh i would have a good look at Endospink's stuff on youtube, esp his vid of him curing the rearer. it is totally the opposite of what i was taught to do, but it works amazingly with that one (he just waits for it to stop and then calmly asks it to stand, basically). Endo has a lot of vids on there, and comes across as very honest and really out for the horses... i really believe that that rearer was cured after the one session. he has a technique called The Tap (and a halfway stage called The Half-Tap) which you can watch on the vids, and pay for if you want the long detailed vids of how to do it. I paid for it, I hope i'll never have to use it but it's another tool to have in the box just in case. I wish i'd heard of it before i gave in and had my mare pts.
another thing to consider, anyway.
if he's that difficult, and you don't want to keep him as an ornament, i would have him pts rather than risk him injuring someone else, or going down in the world...
 
Just remember that if you start down the road of scans and diagnostic treatment you will spend an aweful lot of money. If there is something wrong you will then spend more trying to put the problem right with no guarantee that this will solve anything. If there is nothing significant wrong you will have lost a lot of money and still have a horse that is not reliable and he has been like that for a long time.
 
See I am of the opinion that I could not have a horse PTS unless I knew it was in serious pain or had a terminal condition.

Maybe this horse isn't one that enjoys competing and cannot cope with the pressure of it. Maybe it would be better suited to a more relaxed way of life?

Some I feel just cannot cope with competing. I have a pony who we eventually gave up with after upset after upset at each event. For years he has been happy just hacking about - he has chilled out no end and seems overall a much happier, relaxed horse.

That said, I would want to find out if there was a 'curable' reason or at least some explanation as more often than not the random and dramatic behaviour is down to pain/discomfort. We have a friend who has a horse she events who can do exactly the same sort of thing. He dumped her in a dressage test recently and then again the the Sjing. She keeps persisting though and we do wonder if maybe she should call it a day with him and find him a more suitable 'use'!
 
OMG this sound so familiar to me. My horse was a very promising eventer a a young horse but sold to a riding club home as he started being nappy and rearing out competing (never ever bucked). New home tried to compete him at a lower level and failed - they could not handle him. Put him up for sale and little old me ends up with him.

No problem when I try him out, and fine for a while when I get him home. Try to take him out hacking alone after he's settled and he naps and rears. Eventually resign myself to the fact that he doesn't hack alone. Manage to compete him BSJA with no problem, but he can be nappy and rear - I just deal with it as don't want to pass him on to yet another home who will have to deal with him. On the ground and in the school he is superb.

Few years later he starts to show signs that he is not happy/in pain somewhere by being a grumpy sod and not liking to be touched. Has MRI/ultrasound/x-rays/gamma scintigraphy/drug trials/6 bute per day....the list goes on and goes into £££££s Luckily he was insured. BUT all tests come back completely normal. During this he was completely sound and had completely normal range of movement. Overall, 5 vets saw him and 2 Chiropracters. all knew something was wrong but all tests were 100% normal.

Horse was getting dangerous to handle and was due to be PTS for everyones safety. As a last effort to save my beloved horse I had what I can only describe as a "magnetic man" come to see him (after many thousands of pounds, £20 was nothing!). Can claimed he had been struck by lightening and now was magnetised! Sceptic in me said it was worth the £20 just for a laugh! He didn't touch my horse but held his hands out about 4 ft away from him and jsut stood (I can imagine all your faces now reading this!) My horses hair stood on end below where his hands were and the muscle twitched - I tell no lie.

Well to cut a long and very strange story short, the horse was cured. Magnetic man's theory was that he was so utterly tight in his back that the blood supply had been reduced due to tense muscles and had produced a pins and needles type sensation - hence not linking to be touched. Vet said didn't sound like the most unlikely thing he'd heard and basically said if it's worked then must be something truthful about it.

Anyway, reason why this is relevent - my horse no longer naps and hasn't reared since. I think it was all pain related, he was rearing for a reason.
 
I think other options than having him PTS should be looked at here,you mentioned you let novice riders on him,now my loan horse broncs with me and his owner yet does not do it with novice people.I personally think because we are experienced riders he likes to kick his heels up yet knows how to look after people he really needs to look after.
He also can loose his marbles a little bit at comps through sheer excitment its like a child at the wacky wearhouse.
I would not consider him dangerous though as i could sit him except for once.He has never reared or napped he would consider it rude to do so he just has that sort of personality,he just gets excited sometimes.

If it was me i would be getting someone to ride him for a few weeks,take him to a couple of comps making them fully aware of how he can be.Before i had my little boy i was a crash dummy for a fair few people as no responsibilities meant i had no fear.
I could be that he just completely has no respect for you and could be different with another rider.
And i beleive i have read you have had health issues check out,i would rule everything out before you go down the route of PTS however if this is just the way the horse is regardless of how talented it is,it could seriosuly destroy somebodys life so i would not pass it on i would PTS.
 
I am currently in a similar situation.
Bought horse at 4, all went well evented through his 5th year and started dressage in his 6th year last year.
All was going well, although he had been a bit nappy as a youngster but was easily dealt with.
He then started to lose form and the rearing became more frequent. He was worse out hacking, wasnt interested even if he was with someone.
He never did it in the school until much later on into the summer of 08.
It got so bad he reared 8 time in his dressage test at the National 6 year old champs.
That was it, sent him for a work up, they diagnosed Kissing Spine and bone chip. They decided to inject him and see how it went.
I went for a second opinion who said he didnt have a KS that his spine was no more close together than any normal TB's.
What they did find was that he was suffering wtih soft tissue damage all over him which was probably caused by a fall as a youngster - probably what caused the bone chip also.
Horse has undergone massive Osteo treatment with Zoo Ost and now back in work. However, he is weak in this area now, and even a spook can send him back to the rearing/napping stage.
However, as soon as he's sorted he is back to the lovely young horse I bought 3 years ago.
Personally I think he's worth the money, he is a super jumper and dressage horse, and I know most ppl think Im mad continuing with him.
However, whenever this horse has reacted in a violent way its because hes been in pain.
He is a dude to deal with in and out of the stable, but if his neck or back is sore he tells you very quickly.
So its an ongoing thing for me.

Equally if my horses reaction was through bad manners and temperement he would have had the bullet, or put out to grass - I wouldnt and couldnt sell something I wasnt prepared to sit on myself.
 
Sorry to hear all this V - I hope he has now put his problems behind him- fingers crossed for him.

I think the interesting point here is when you know when to call it a day and when to perservere and I don't always think it is black and white. On the one hand you could spend years and £££ trying to find a reason for bad behaviour or you could make a decision that you can't risk yourself any longer and I think it sounds as if the OP is in this position right now. I think the one thing we are all agreed on is that it would be unwise to pass this horse on. It wouldn't be fair on him and certainly not on the person who would end up with him as I remain convinced horses such as this one once leaving a long term home (however honest the vendor is and however suitable the home is) are passed from pillar to post and his 'history' is lost. Sadly I have heard it time and time again....
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So many people *think* they can take on a horse with issues - and make all the right noises about their experience etc. However in reality are either not equipt to deal with it or unwilling to do so.....horse enters a spiral of bad management and we all dread to think where they end up. The less reputable sales are full of them and it breaks my heart. I only wish that more people were brave enough to do the right thing rather than let this happen. By asking the question the OP is clearly wanting to do the right thing by all parties - but they have my sympathy as it's an awful position to be in
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This horse sounds so much like my old horse Starlight. My ponyclub horse, he detested showjumping and could rear like you wouldnt believe. He could actually walk about on his hind legs without coming down.I have never seen another horse do this.In the end we came to an agreement.I would not demand that he did these things (unless he happend to feel like it).But there were other things I did want to do (hunt and ride point to point).My rogue horse that would rear and bronk at 2 ft 9, became the best of hunters and as brave a point to pointer as you could want.As for the rearing , he simply stopped overnight.I had him for over twenty years and he turned into the best horse anyone could ask for.
 
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