What would you do with my horse?

Silmarillion

Silmarillion

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Ok, I'm after some options here. My new horse (had him since mid-October) is a 16yo TBx gelding. When he is good he is very, very good - an absolute angel and the perfect horse for us. However when he is bad he is rather bad, and he seems to know exactly what he is doing, unfortunately for us (relatively experienced horse owners, if not both experienced or confident riders). The problem is this - he has learnt to get away from people in hand. He knows full well that it is impossible for anyone to hold him if he spins round to face away from you, then gallops off. The first time he did this (we knew he did it occasionally and were advised to get a Dually headcollar as he was very much improved at his past home with this) we were surprised, but collected him from the back of the field and carried on like nothing had happened. There appeared to be no reason for it.

The second time, he did it a good handful of times in one "sitting". Unbeknown to us, a pony had escaped into the field at the back of us, and he was physically shaking at one point when we had hold of him. It took us about three attempts to get him out of the field (catch - very easy to catch - then walk ten paces, spin, gallop... catch, ten paces, spin, gallop...) then about three attempts to get him across the next field to the shelter we tie him to (we have three fields with a shelter in the middle one that we tie up to for tacking up, no other facilities). We tacked up, walked him towards the front field to get on him to hack out, and he got away again fully tacked. I collected him using a rope threaded through the bit ring, HAULED on his mouth when he span to run again, and he didn't care one bit - just galloped off. We went to him to take his tack off rather than get him in again, and could barely hold him still to get the saddle off.

Yesterday he was in a fine mood when I arrived, walked up to me to be caught, then the second I had the headcollar on him he span and ran again. Each time he has done this he doesn't care one jot whether he has a bit in his mouth or is standing on the rope attached to the controller piece of the Dually (I am worried he is going to break his nose with that...) - he just gallops off. When he stops he stares into the distance like there's something scary, however as soon as I leave him alone (I went and sat in the car yesterday) he relaxes and mooches about like nothing has happened.

I would quite like some opinions on how to proceed with him - I have handled strong and bargy characters before, but never one that puts the blinkers on and runs without an ounce of panic in his body! I am wondering whether or not trying to bring him in on a lunge line would help (not on the Dually) - on one hand I might have a better chance of holding him, but on the other hand I don't want to risk him getting tangled as he is plenty thick enough to run and run until he is completely swamped in lunge line and brings himself crashing down. My problem, of course, lies with the lack of facilities - he is safely confined within the field unless I open the gate, but all three fields are like swamps at the moment. If I have to let him gallop round the winter sacrifice field in order to fix this problem though, then so be it. I'd take him to my instructor's school but I can't get him there (as I can't guarantee I can hold him long enough to get him up the road :p )

I know that I am bigging up the problem - he has done this on three separate occasions in the last two and a bit months, and has behaved perfectly on all other occasions... it just worries me that he will have a naughty day when I really need him to behave (like if I need to get him to the vet). So if anyone would like to share any pearls of wisdom regarding how I should even begin to try to teach the old mule how to behave, they will be gratefully received! And there's leftover Christmas cake on offer for anyone who managed to read that essay! :)

(For what it's worth he passed his 5* vetting with flying colours in October ;) )
 
It sounds like he's too clever for his own good. I had a stallion that did this - he had been allowed to get away with it a few times and then it just seemed to stick. He was led everywhere in a chifney.

I would suggest sticking a chifney on him for a while so that he learns that bogging off in hand is unpleasant for all involved!
 
do you catch him and bring him up to the shelter every day? or just when your ride, have farrier, vet etc?

Is he associating being caught with being worked? is it possible that his tack might be uncomfortable, teeth sharp? he then associates being caught with ending in pain? and his reaction is to run off so he doesn't have to put up with the pain?

If none of the above, is it possible to move him to a yard for a while where he has to come in a night, get him into a routine of being caught and it not always being for work! see whether that makes a difference to his behaviour?
 
I second the chifney - I used to work on a yard with a cob callled flash (aka flash b*****d as the dealer that dropped him off called him). It got to a point where we had to heard him in from the field with a tractor he got so dangerous on occasions, but with the chifney after a few failed attampts at bogging off he was good as gold (well...99% of the time ;) )

By no meaner do I advocate hauling a horse in rhe mouth but on occasions it is unfortunately neccessary for both yours and your horses safety.

Try the chifney and see if it makes a difference :)

Ps this horse was an angel to ride - even took RDA riders out on long hacks!
 
Starzaan Re: What would you do with my horse?

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It sounds like he's too clever for his own good. I had a stallion that did this - he had been allowed to get away with it a few times and then it just seemed to stick. He was led everywhere in a chifney.

I would suggest sticking a chifney on him for a while so that he learns that bogging off in hand is unpleasant for all involved!

The above .... - not everyone likes them & you have to know how to use them but safety is important - you may only have to use it a couple of times
 
OP, the IH associate who taught me to use the Dually headcollar always
used it with a long rope -not a lunge line, but a like long (maybe 5m or so)
lead rope. The extra weight meant that it did not get tangled up if my
mare b------d off backwards when we were trying to get her to load.
The length meant we did not have to let go when she jerked back or spun
round - the rope was just played out.

I couldn't find such a long rope for myself in the UK, but I did come across
one in a tack shop in Spain. It is a very useful addition to the Dually.
 
Chain works for mine. He knew he could get away from the groom at the previous yard, I found the chain just under the chin helped, a good zip and he seemed a lot more mannerly!
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, it really is much appreciated.

Regarding the chifney - the way he bolts off makes me think that he would take no notice whatsoever, and would end up galloping across the field with a rope dangling from his mouth perfectly set to break his jaw when he stepped on it. I am quite loathe to risk losing hold of him when that is the risk. He took absolutely no notice of my having him fully tacked up and hauling on his mouth with a normal bit in so I'm not sure he'd take any more notice of a chifney? I think that perhaps previous owners have also been loathe to stomp on the problem by using a chifney or some such, which is why he still does it at age 16. I'm very torn between seeing if I can sort it, and risking him seriously hurting himself :(

I do very much like the suggestion of using a heavier rope though and will possibly take myself off to source one this weekend!

As for how often we bring him in... he does indeed come in and get ridden 99% of the time. He will sometimes come in for a brush off and a re-rug, but mostly he gets ridden. When he is good though, he shows no signs of being even a little apprehensive about coming in and is perfectly good to tack up. The saddler needs to come out to see to his saddle as it's a bit wide, but it's not a bad fit. The thing that makes me doubt any pain is that he has apparently done this all his life :rolleyes:

I may see how effective just a lunge line is (hat and gloves come with me at all times since the second time he did it ;) ) and if I still can't hold him, I may see what he does in a chifney.

It sounds so simple, but I'd love to take him out to a competition next year (only RC dressage!) without fearing he'd gallop off for no apparent reason! :o

Thanks guys :)
 
Easiest way to ensure safety of a horse that bogs off with a chifney in is to cut a lead rope down short at attach that to chiffney, put a headcollar over top with a lunge line/normal length lead rope on, hold both with Hand nearest horse, and just longer one in left hand. If he tries to big off, one sharp tug with right hand, if he does manage to get away, he's only got the chance to stand on the rope attached to his headcollar not chifney as that ones not long enough to dangle.

Hope that makes sense
 
its defo worth getting him checked fully!

my mare was a right cow when I had her at first, for a year, she'd tank off when I rode, often wouldn't let me catch her, she put on loads of weight so I had to get a wider saddle, and then discovered the saddle she came with had a broken tree, she was ridden in that for god knows how long before I got her! so it might be something that happened in your horses past that has made him this way!

also I had a horrible tb last winter, he'd pull back and break free and leg it off, so I feel your pain! the farrier said that the people I loaned him from were clueless and he had to refuse to shoe the horse after he'd tried to kill him one day (the only horse he'd refused to shoe to date) but he was much better when I had him! he'd just had so many years of taking the Pee he wasn't going to change for anything! ended up going to a retirement home as he was good for nothing anymore! he was 19 and a useless ex racer!

Since having him I refuse to ever have a horse that old, a horse that has been allowed to get away with taking the pee out of someone else, so I've got a youngster, was unhandled, so if he has any issues as a older horse, it will be my fault, and I cant blame anyone else!
 
Chiffney with lunge line attached; hat and gloves for yourself AND a bucket of food!

I have a 23 year old that I've had since 4 years of age that will every week or so give a shoulder and p:ss off....no reason, no problem, no nothing...he's just quirky and how he's always been. The only SURE way to turn out is as above with elbow in neck and drip feeding.

He's never been traumatised, had gates bang on him blah blah blah. Wasn't helped on one yard where yard owner would open field gate and open stable door though........:eek:

Sometimes you just have to accept and work around.
 
FaldingwoodLivery - thanks, that does make sense, I'll try it.

kerrieberry2 - saddler will be booked for next month. He's had everything else checked so that's the only thing it could be!

gunnergundog - he won't eat, which is another of my problems! He has just enough hay to last him between visits, is in good condition, but does not eat bucket food. He doesn't give a hoot about a carrot in front of his nose if he's seen something interesting in the distance. Makes it very difficult to persuade him to do anything he doesn't want to as I can't use bribery if he refuses :rolleyes:

I've had a chat with my mum and she likes the idea of sticking him in a chifney with a lunge line on his headcollar. Chifney only to be used in the event of him bogging off, lunge line preferable to that. I feel like I have a plan :) I am also, once the ground dries up (hahaha!!) going to do a lot of ground work with him. I do appreciate that it's still early days and I haven't yet built a relationship with him, so whilst it's wet I will build up from bringing him in for a groom, to walking him round the field, then lungeing once the sky stops leaking in a few months' time.

Thanks all, your advice and thoughts are very much appreciated!
 
I had a little ****** of a pony, now sold to TheresaW on here!! who knows all about setting his neck and going. I used a dogs choke chain over his nose, through all the headcollar bits and then attached to the rope. A good yank on that slowed him up nicely.
TheresaW now just uses a be nice headocllar I think.
I do think chifneys are great though.
 
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