What would you do with my psycho horse??? Long sorry

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Louby

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My horse is a lazy but spooky horse. He is well mannered normally but I seem to think he does think hes the boss at times. He is turned out alone, although next to his friends as he plays very rough and fractured his leg last year. Im not overjoyed with this and feel a bit cruel but hes alive! He has changed since going out alone, mainly he has more energy and is more spooky as he played all day and was whacked when I came to ride.
A few months ago he was manic when I put him in his stable although fine when in the field, it turned out to be a man flying his hawk in the woods behind the stables. This man comes about once or twice a fortnight and each time it turns my horse into a psycho and he doesnt calm down til the next day even though the mans been gone hours. None of the other horses bother.
Today we saw the hawk as we were riding, he grew to about 17hh and I could feel his heart pumping, he shot through the yard gate, skidding to a halt on the concrete, whacking my shin on the way... ouch. He was fine in the field and the hawk had long gone. Tonight all the horses were in and he was a nutter again. It used to worry me with colic etc but Im ashamed to say Im getting that I dont care as I just dont know what to do with him.
We had a similar experience when trying to get him in a trailer, he just freaked when inside and once hes gone thats it.
Any advice or suggestions please.
 
Ha Ha, has crossed my mind
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Thing is I dont know when hes coming to give him the sedalin first.
I dont know how to be with him in the stable as he'd run me over to get to the door when hos 'on one'. Tonight I tied him up short to pick his feet out and was very firm with him, he has that, omg get me out of here look on his face. I undid him and he was off again.
 
There is something called Anxi calm???? An old livery at our yard had similar problems with her horse and she was using that.... speak to the vet about it, unless anyone can point Louby in the right direction????

The Feel Good 30 calmer worked wonders for a gelding I had.... nad have you tried rescue remedy as well????
 
Your horse needs calming down and de-sensitising to certain things. As well as reviewing his feed and adding a calmer, I'd suggest all the normal physical checks and then seeking the advice of someone affiliated to Monty Roberts or someone similarly affiliated.
 
I had a bit of a similar time with my horse when he turned out alone. He's always been VERY playful, and often injured, so he was put in on his own for a while ( he was only on the other side of a fence though).
He was not happy and started behaving very oddly and been naughty- even napping when ridden, which he'd never done before. He now has a field mate who he plays nicely with and is blissfully happy again:)
 
Sorry to hear you're having trouble. What is it about the hawk? The bells? We've got an escaped Harris Hawk at our farm and our horses go a bit strange when they hear the bells (although the bells on their xmas outfits dont bother them!)

If he's just spooky in general, i'd start some bombproofing work with him. Get a good book & start turning him out with scary things (just small things at first - you dont want him hooning round the field with his bad leg). Plastic bags? Balloons? Tarporlin sheets?
Once he's realised they're nothing to be scared of, he'll start dealing with scarier things more sensibly.

Good luck anyway.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOMBPROOF-YOUR-HOR...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bombproof-Your-Horse-Confident-Encounter/dp/0851318967
 
What do you think to this theory...

In a herd there is an 'alpha horse' usually mare 'in charge' of watching for danger etc. If a horse is removed from the herd, or the dynamic changes and one horse is raised to alpha status they become more spooky as have to adapt to watching for danger when before they relied on the leader.

if a horse is not naturally a herd leader they would find this difficult to adjust to and therefore changes in behavior may become more obvious.

I've recently kept my two horses only together rather than as part of a herd and my previously submissive mare is now very much in charge of my other horse who was always lower in the pecking order. My older mare has become MUCH more spooky and alert.

Sooooooo.. although I don't have a solution for you I thin calmers etc might mask a problem rather than cure it.

My thoughts with mine are to raise my status as herd leader and therefore in theory have her look to me rather than take 'flight' decision sherself.

Dunno... whaddya think..could it work?

In fact this is the first time I've written down this thought so if no one replies hope you don't mind if I post as a main post.
 
You could try getting him to concentrate on YOU rather than what is frightening him. This will take a lot of training, and I have never done it so can't really give you any advice. A look at the Intelligent Horsemanship website would give you a list of Recommended Associatates who could come to your yard and give you some groundwork exercises to do.

Also try deep breathing. Concentrate on deep, slow breaths, breathing in slowly and letting it out slowly, and this should calm him too. I have to do this when entering the stable if I am putting my horse in the trailer as he gets a bit stressed by it all. Since remember to "deep breathe" he has been much better at loading.

Another website that can advise you on this is an american one - Dr. Deb Bennett at www.equinestudies.org. Be warned that Dr. Deb is very stern! She calls this behaviour in horses "loosing their birdie" and has issued a CD called The Birdie Book on ground work exercises, training etc. so the horse always looks to the rider above everything else. She has spent her life re-training spoiled horses, so she has had the experience, and her work is rather intimidating, but there are good things there.
 
I have a rescue case with similar problems, Monty's is purely down to seperation anxiety. Before he came to me, he had been to 3 markets in 9 months, passed from pillar to post. As long as he has a buddy within touching distance he is fine. After lots of patience, understanding and 'stable bonding' he has come much better, but still capable of a panic attack and, under these circumstances can be a danger to himself and others around him.

I feel that this will never be totally cured but we are both happy with a compromise. His stable mate never goes out before him and he is never left alone. He is 20 years old now and due to his history, I think the anxiety is ingrained too deeply. There are only a couple of other people who I will allow to handle him - he's perfectly fine if you are 'aware' and safety conscious.

Lots of grooming, voice commands and pushing him in the stable will give you more respect from him as the leader. Doing some join-up in a confined area would also help. Do you have a trainer who could help you on the ground and with the loading issue?
 
One of my driving ponies gets beside himself about noises/goings on outside when he's locked in his box but is perfectly happy about the same noises when he's in the field. Very frustrating. My advice would have to be either turn him out or move him to another stable/yard away from the problem. IMO these horses that upset themselves for whatever reason just don't get used to things and improve. In some scenarios you can work miracles with horses' behaviour through repitition but with this type of phobic behaviour I honestly think the only thing you can do is take the horse out of the situation.
 
The Joanna Day book 'The Fearless Horse' might offer some helpful tips. My mare was a bit like this if anything slightly out of the norm was going on outside her box, near her field (and I mean someone walking a dog, a horse trotting past or something equally uneventful!)
I think she lacked a lot of confidence and after much trial and error we are now through it! I used a magnesium calmer and was also very conscious of staying very calm around her so she got some comfort / respect from me...almost like I was being the dominant mare!
The Joanna day book elaborates on this and makes the point that in a crisis would you go running to the person who was panicking and shouting or would you go the the calm measured person.
You may not think you are 'panicking' as such but horses will pick up on the slightest signs that you aren't even aware of - Eg a raised heart rate.
 
It's a pain if something like this happens and having had a horse like this once I can sympathise completely.

The only way we got through it was anything that set him off he was saturated with until he got bored or tired of it; so in this case, my bashed knee or not, he would have been made to go out again and behave properly until he shrunk to his normal size and behaved as if the hawk was just a sparrow, if that makes sense. Would it be possible for you to ask the hawk man to visit the yard (with hawk of course!) so that he could get used to them walking/standing about the yard? You can get kites that look like a hawk; you could tie one up near his box so he gets used to it and do something similar with anything else he gets stroppy about. You can hang balloons, plastic bags, bits of silver foil etc, all around his box so he gets used to things that he is normally awkward about. The old saying 'familiarity breeds contempt' can be very true in these cases. Have you seen the Lucinda Green article in H&H this week, that might give you some ideas too?
He needs you to be the alpha horse, you are top of the pecking order and you should never give him any other option than but behave as you want; what he does in the paddock is his own affair but with you he behaves. You must never be unfair in your behaviour towards him, you should give him the benefit of the doubt (is he being stroppy, is he genuinely scared?) but you must be firm. It might take some time but you must be consistent.
You could also try feeding Brewers Yeast as a calmer, it does seem to work and it's a natural product with B vitamins. Gold Label make it amongst others and it costs me about £9 for 1.5kg which lasts 4 of mine just over a month, so it's cheap too. (I used to swear by Blue Chip but this gives the same results (for me) at a quarter of the price!)
 
my horse does not like hawks either and my partner is a falconer you will find its not so much the bird its the bells on the bird couldn you ask the falconer to tape the bells up then show the horse the bird but remember the bird will be just as scared as the horse and may flap around and frighten the horse even more but ask the falconer if the bird has a hood if so could he put it on as it will keep the hawk steady around the horse
 
Thanks everyone, Ive not read in detail yet but will do soon.
I think it is the bells that freaks him out. It was the whistle at first and I didnt have a clue why he was so upset as I didnt know what it was either.
I should have took him back out to see it, cant imagine why I didnt, think it was the sick feeling in my stomach that you get when you whack your shin
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He runs round the stable pooing everywhere, trots at the door and doesnt care where you are when hes doing this and suggests hes going to weave (never weaved before)
I really wish I could get him a companion but theres no stables, cant really afford 2 and the grazings so good I'd be worried about lami if I got a pony.
I ordered Brewers Yeast yesterday, fingers crossed.
Thanks again for all your replies, I will work on getting him to respect me more and also see if the Hawkman will bring her round to see him.
 
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