What would you do?

[racingdemon]

i should probably put this in veterinary, but i thought more people might see it in here

am having some problems with pickles and soundness, i.e. he's not! Vet has initally diagnosed lameness in both front feet related to his foot balance and also low grade lameness in both hocks

Having spoken to my farrier, he has agreed to come out this week and see what he can do to rebalance the foot, but, pickles has awful tiny feet, and my farrier has always said he hasn't got enough hoof/foot to work with, so he isn't that optimistic that he can do that much.

now, my thoughts are, and i might be being cynical, even if the hoof balance is resolved, his joints in his fornt legs have been subjected to a fair amount of stress, and he isn't 'sound' in hs hocks, so do i spend 12/18 months having everything under the sun done to try and get him back to 100% soundness, which atm i don't know is possible, and thinking if arthritis is involved its less likely, or do i decide to call it a day and retire him/send him hunting in the sky.

have yet to speak to my vet in more detail, but i know he is likely to suggest we spend a small fortune on trying allsorts of different things, (which is obvious really, as he'll make a nice profit thank you!)

my farrier, being more pragmatic has suggested if we can't rebalance his feet enough then enough is enough

pickles is only 10 though, so part of me says if he's lame like this at 10, its only going to get much worse, esp bearing in mind he isn't well put together, the other part says 10, thats far to young,

so, i'm a bit stumped, farrier is coming wednesday, and will speak to my vet more tomorrow, but am sceptical as i know my vet knows pickles is insured, so its effectivly easy money for how ever long we decide to try for, with the possibility that he isn't going to come sound at the end of it.

sorry for wittering, am really unsure of what to do

 

[Clodagh]

I had a case like that, and changed to a vet I trusted! You have to 100% have faith in them that they are doing it for you and the horse, not their pockets. Could you ask for a second opinion?

 

[pagancluf]

Awh honey - not good... I have an ex-racer and his feet are reallysmall like a ponies and very poor - farrier is trying to shave them at the front as curved like an ILPH donkeys at the mo - but he is working on feeding him MSM. chronditin and Glucosomine in v large qualntities and re-shoeing at 4 weeks to get right and I am sure this week looks like improvement is there??? Keep trying and best of luck.

 

[racingdemon]

i have 110% trust in my vet, and he is a good personal freind, but vets are vets regardless, and i know that they give different recomendations for insured and uninsured horses, thats just one of those things

 

[Maesfen]

I would always trust my farrier 100% more than my vet on feet issues, have to say!
That apart, how will you stand with your insurance company if you decide to call it a day if you haven't tried everything? On the other hand, it won't cost as much (for them) to pts now rather than when all the expensive treatments have been tried and failed. Do you know which way they would jump cos you don't want to invalidate your insurance if you are in the same boat as most of us, that you need the insurance payout to fund another horse? That isn't meant nastily, just trying to cover all the angles.
As you say, 10 is far too young to be having arthritis trouble let alone foot problems and his quality of life would be my main concern.
Good luck with what you decide though I wouldn't blame you if you do call it a day. I do wish that some vets could see the patient for what it is rather than pound signs in front of their eyes; sometimes, it's better not to have vet cover, otherwise they'll usually try to use the most expensive treatments as a matter of course because they know it'll be paid for when possibly cheaper treatments would work just as well if that makes sense - I know what I mean!.

 

[H's mum]

Blimey RD!

Tough call...
Personally I'd wait until both the vet and the farrier had fully assessed him (by that I don't mean full lameness work ups etc - just their initial reactions) - Then I'd take it from there - Hock problems don't mean the end of the world - I know lots of horses that cope on low level bute - but the problem won't go away and competing him would look less unlikely

Let me know how you get on - I'll be thinking of you!
Kate xxx

 

[Weezy]

Echo Kate & Pat - I wouldnt blame you for calling it a day if the farrier can do no more for him, but I will feel wretched for you

 

[LEC]

If he was mine I would do exactly what you are doing. I might try something like cortaflex to see if that helped the hock issues. I never have my horses insured for vets and find I get pretty honest answers quicker as I am footing the cost. Hope farrier comes up trumps.

 

[Skhosu]

I would get full opininos from both vet + farrier, see how insurance would cover me re: investigations and if they cover me, do them, if not, put him out for a year or so to see what happens.
I would most certainly PTS yet unless he is in significant pain.

 

[wizzi901]

Get all your information to hand, get opinions from people you trust then make an informed decision which is best for the horse and his/her future.

Check with insurance also!

 

[Santa_Claus]

echo all above but if arthritis i can only recommend Tildren which has helped to sort Dan's Navicular and bone spavins in his hocks.

Good luck

 

[wizzi901]

arthritis and boney issues......I rate cider vinegar also...

 

[Bossanova]

If I were you, I'd get front feet and hock x-rays, I know that requires money throwing at it but then you may have more of an idea of issues going on and if the front feet could be improved balance wise, your farrier has them to work with.

 

[burtie]

Tough one, when I had to decide on Ellie having the operation on her crumbling fetlock, the vet was honest enough to say that if it was his horse we wouldn't bother as success rate was only 50/50 at best and she had other problems.

So really it is worth taking to a vet who can give a impartial (i.e. money free) opinion. Obviously they will never tell you what to do/not do but may at least be more realistic about long term prognosis. Also how would Pickles cope with all the treatment, I had to consider that my mare was a shy/nervous type and I didn't want her last 6-12 months spent on hospitals/operations/box res and strangers only to have her PTS at the end.

Edit to add, I had Ellies front feet xrayed so we knew for sure what we were dealing with before any final decisions were made.

 

[BBs]

Oh hunny

I am sorry to hear about Pickles! damn blast!!!!

Personally I would (as hes insured) cover most angles with this, as hes still only young. Speak to your farrier and possibly your vet again and I would be inclined to get X rays done just to make 100% sure.

Remember I had a very lame horse with serious ringbone diagnosed this year, however, the lameness was caused by pussy and bruised soles, the ringbone hasnt caused any problems, he isnt on any pain killers and is sound as a pound!!!

Tildren is our next option should the Ringbone get worse!

Winston is only 11 and I wanted to give him a fighting chance - even if he only could manage dressage and light jumping.

Give it a little more time, explore the avenues, at the end of the day, if you get him back good enough for hunting, surely thats a bonus???

 

[Alibear]

hmm I know exactly what you mean
personally I'd let the farrier take a good long look and see what he says , perhaps a winter off unshod? Then go for hock x-rays.

If nothing showed up then I'd turn him away for the winter and if that didn't help I'd retire him.

But that's just me, I always always swear I'm going to stop putting my horses through umpteen procedures yet I do it every single time!

Thing is though Mac last X-rays were shocking the vet went white they are dire, but they are thankfully clear cut enough to retire and go for loss of use.

Having a definite answer from the vet is a very rare thing unfortuantly.

 

[aran]

if your footing the bill then i'd do xrays - see what comes up. if you've got active bone spavin then i would leave well alone - injections have very limited success and are expensive. plus at best you are attempting to fuse the joint and therefore stop pain but the gait is forever altered (if you see what i mean!). shoeing can help if his hooves will allow. i was insured so aran had surgical arthrodesis as his was nearly fused - it has 70% sucess over 10 months - i reserve judgement until the new year - but i doubt its worked!
if you've got space and time could you take his shoes of and turn him away for the year - see if the front feet resolve and the hocks fuse or if he begins to deteriorate then you know youve got a rapid degenerative change and you can make your decision.
tough call - good luck!

(omega 3 oils plus glucosamine/chondroitin sulphate combination may help!?!)

 

[OWLIE185]

If you really want a second opinion take him down to one of the specialist veterinary practices in Newmarket.