What would you do?

P

Paddy-Wac :)

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Okay, so I'm feeling a little disheartened at the moment. Patrick, the horse I have on loan, is a real pain. He's nearly nine but really green (or naughty, can't really work him out!) and bucks, naps, goes backwards... you name it, he does it. It's been two and a half years and I'm really sick of it to be honest. Every time we seem to be making progress he does something and my confidence is in pieces. It's not like I'm not an experienced rider! He has his good points - he is completely and utterly bombproof and is really sweet on the ground.
The thing is, I would give him up, but no one at my yard will have him and so his owner says if I give him up she'll exchange him, he'll go to a dealer, and , in her words, will 'probably end up as meat'. How can I do that to him? I love him. But I feel like I've hit rock bottom and I don't know what to do.
What do you think?
Sorry for the rant :)
 
Hmm thats a tough decision but if he's on loan and isn't the right horse for you give him back. She is probably just playing on your emotional heart strings and I'm sure she would just find a new home for him, maybe as a companion horse if anything. try not to worry she's maybe just trying to make you keep him but that's not fair on you if he's not what you need.
 
Carolina24 said:
Hmm thats a tough decision but if he's on loan and isn't the right horse for you give him back. She is probably just playing on your emotional heart strings and I'm sure she would just find a new home for him, maybe as a companion horse if anything. try not to worry she's maybe just trying to make you keep him but that's not fair on you if he's not what you need.
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this ^

if hes on loan - send him back,,,,,,,,, no horse is worth making you that scared.
 
Carolina24 said:
Hmm thats a tough decision but if he's on loan and isn't the right horse for you give him back. She is probably just playing on your emotional heart strings and I'm sure she would just find a new home for him, maybe as a companion horse if anything. try not to worry she's maybe just trying to make you keep him but that's not fair on you if he's not what you need.
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She really isn't as she is a dealer herself! But thank you for the advice :)
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
Yes I have regular lessons, but at home in the field isn't where he misbehaves majorly, its on hacks and at shows.
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Is there any way you could hack out with your instructor or get her to accompany you to a show? I do understand though that you don't want to send him back. Probably perserverance is the key! Do you think he's taking the p*ss or is he just overwhelmed at being out?
 
bumblelion said:
Is there any way you could hack out with your instructor or get her to accompany you to a show? I do understand though that you don't want to send him back. Probably perserverance is the key! Do you think he's taking the p*ss or is he just overwhelmed at being out?
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Out on hacks, he is just taking the p*ss! Shows... I'm not so sure, I have endeavored to get him out to different places at least twice a month to get him used to them, but he still spins and goes backwards. He does scour and wee a lot so I do think this is nerves. But he has spun into a little old lady or a horsebox too many times for my liking!
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
Out on hacks, he is just taking the p*ss! Shows... I'm not so sure, I have endeavored to get him out to different places at least twice a month to get him used to them, but he still spins and goes backwards. He does scour and wee a lot so I do think this is nerves. But he has spun into a little old lady or a horsebox too many times for my liking!
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What do you do when he does this on a hack? Or at a show?
 
Since you do not own this horse, it is his owner's responsibility. If he really is as difficult as this then possibly he would be better off being PTS (or meat, if you prefer).
 
bumblelion said:
What do you do when he does this on a hack? Or at a show?
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Lots of leg!! If he goes backwards, immediately give him his head and squeeze till he even makes a step forward and then praise. If he spins I block with the rein and leg in the direction he's going and open the other one so he can move back to the direction that I want him to go in. He's uber clever so I have to keep him moving all the time, if I stop, I'm doomed :rolleyes:
 
Cortez said:
Since you do not own this horse, it is his owner's responsibility. If he really is as difficult as this then possibly he would be better off being PTS (or meat, if you prefer).
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Thats a bit harsh on the horse, I have had horses that other people were going to have destroyed because in their eyes they saw the horse as being difficult, but in actual fact the horse was far too much for them.

This problem could be something very simple.
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
I am an experienced rider - everything has been thrown at me! And other, more experienced, riders have ridden him and have had the same difficulties. And a low energy mix.
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What breed is he? When was he gelded, you say he is green - how green, how much experience has he had in the past? How much of his history do you know?
 
And I think the owner is trying to emotionally blackmail you into keeping a horse that you don't enjoy/trust, and taking advantage of your soft heart.
 
Dancing Queen said:
What breed is he? When was he gelded, you say he is green - how green, how much experience has he had in the past? How much of his history do you know?
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He's a 14.2 irish cob. He was in a hacking school for a year before I got him. He's green in the fact that he hasn't done much. Before that? I have no idea. He came over from ireland, but we think he has been driven.
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
Lots of leg!! If he goes backwards, immediately give him his head and squeeze till he even makes a step forward and then praise. If he spins I block with the rein and leg in the direction he's going and open the other one so he can move back to the direction that I want him to go in. He's uber clever so I have to keep him moving all the time, if I stop, I'm doomed :rolleyes:
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All sounds good, but if you are sure he is taking the mick, then there is nothing wrong with a kick and a good smack when the 'ask polietly' approach has stopped being very effective. He needs to know that the behaviour he is showing isn't acceptable and that you won't tollerate it. Then when correct behaviour is shown then a good pat and praise. How is he in company?

I must admit that I wonder if his owner is just saying these things to you to ensure you keep the horse - like you I would find it hard to send a horse back if I knew it was going for meat - I expect the owner knows you would find this hard and is playing on this to ensure she/he isn't stuck with a difficult horse over the winter.

Are there any ridden activities that he enjoys and behaves well for or is it just on the ground that he is nice to be around?
 
ThePony said:
All sounds good, but if you are sure he is taking the mick, then there is nothing wrong with a kick and a good smack when the 'ask polietly' approach has stopped being very effective. He needs to know that the behaviour he is showing isn't acceptable and that you won't tollerate it. Then when correct behaviour is shown then a good pat and praise. How is he in company?

I must admit that I wonder if his owner is just saying these things to you to ensure you keep the horse - like you I would find it hard to send a horse back if I knew it was going for meat - I expect the owner knows you would find this hard and is playing on this to ensure she/he isn't stuck with a difficult horse over the winter.

Are there any ridden activities that he enjoys and behaves well for or is it just on the ground that he is nice to be around?
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Oh believe me he has had more than a good smack on occasion!! The thing is she wouldn't have it over the winter as he would just go back to the dealer from which she got him from - that's why I doubt it's just to get me to keep him. Plus she is honestly a very genuinely nice person :)

He quite likes to lunge??
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
He's a 14.2 irish cob. He was in a hacking school for a year before I got him. He's green in the fact that he hasn't done much. Before that? I have no idea. He came over from ireland, but we think he has been driven.
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Do you know what, I would have put quite a lot of money on this horse being a cob.

Have you tried being seriously firm with him?
 
Ok try this;

When he spins and go backwards - allow him to go backwards (as in safely - ie no people directly behind him, cars etc) when he has had his fit and i mean as soon as he stops going backwards you make him go backwards, you reinback and back and back and back and stop when you want. (no need to be harsh with him, just make him go back) He may try it again a couple of times but it will soon sink in that he actually isnt getting one over on you.

Works a treat BUT you HAVE to be QUIET in the saddle and a kind rider.

I would drop all mix, if you have to give him something just a few carrots, I have been sent cobs displaying the same kind of attitude and by dropping the feed (low energy or not) as long as they have access to grass and hay they dont NEED feed, they come right.

You need to ride positive, if he has been in a school - he has got so used to doing what he wants with whoever is on his back.
 
bex1984 said:
Do you know what, I would have put quite a lot of money on this horse being a cob.

Have you tried being seriously firm with him?
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Hahaha, of course! They're not always little angels as some people think ;)

There have been lots of occasions where I have completely lost my rag and really come down like a ton of bricks on him, but this seems to make him worse and he goes into blind panic mode, so I have since tried to avoid this.
 
Paddy-Wac :) said:
Oh believe me he has had more than a good smack on occasion!! The thing is she wouldn't have it over the winter as he would just go back to the dealer from which she got him from - that's why I doubt it's just to get me to keep him. Plus she is honestly a very genuinely nice person :)

He quite likes to lunge??
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Smacking doesnt work - and he has become immune/desensitised to it - you have to play a different game now.
 
Dancing Queen said:
Ok try this;

When he spins and go backwards - allow him to go backwards (as in safely - ie no people directly behind him, cars etc) when he has had his fit and i mean as soon as he stops going backwards you make him go backwards, you reinback and back and back and back and stop when you want. (no need to be harsh with him, just make him go back) He may try it again a couple of times but it will soon sink in that he actually isnt getting one over on you.

Works a treat BUT you HAVE to be QUIET in the saddle and a kind rider.

I would drop all mix, if you have to give him something just a few carrots, I have been sent cobs displaying the same kind of attitude and by dropping the feed (low energy or not) as long as they have access to grass and hay they dont NEED feed, they come right.

You need to ride positive, if he has been in a school - he has got so used to doing what he wants with whoever is on his back.
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Thanks, will deffo try this!! But I am afraid I have to feed him as he is not a particularly good doer and drops off very easily, especially at this time of year :)
 
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