What would you feed this horse?

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AmeliaVDW

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Following on from my previous thread (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=582321) and after speaking to numerous feed companies, I am none the wiser.

So the horse details:
16.1hh TB mare
Poor-doer. Will drop weight at a drop of a hat if stressed or nervous etc..
4 years old
Light hacking (30-45mins a couple times a week)
She's very sensitive and is hot headed.

She is currently under-weight. I've tried many feeds; Calm and Condition, barley/chaff/conditioning feed, balancer/alfalfa, Baileys No 4, conditioning cubes/mollichaff extra, and many other combinations! She gets adlib hay off the floo (literally two wheelbarrow full)

So what you you advise?

This was a couple of weeks after I got her, had put on some weight on at this stage.
2012-09-12154811_zps2f85d99e.jpg


Then she put more weight, but has now lost it again and is worse then the above photo.
2012-11-14151251_zps46e86fab.jpg



EDIT - Just realised I've put the wrong first photo- this was a month after I got her and she'd put on A LOT of weight on compared to when I first got her (can't find a photo of when I first got her).
 
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I'd have a good look at her whole management including the size of stable, where it's located, companions, daily turnout etc.

I'd also be splitting her feed into three a day, using plenty of unmolassed sugar beet, barley rings if she can tolerate them, some chaff or alfalfa, pink powder and I'd try her on haylage rather than hay. I'd start with that because that's what I keep in for mine and I've yet to have one that doesn't pick up some weight on that with some mix to add a bit of flavour interest.
 
If she was mine I would do a blood, before trying to formulate a diet plan.

It will take time and money to achieve the right diet for her and having the knowlege she has no under lying problems would be a help.

Many others won't agree with my thoughts but a quick blood test at £50 ish is only the cost of 4 bags of decent conditioning feed.
 
AmeliaVDW said:
*hic* said:
I'd have a good look at her whole management including the size of stable, where it's located, companions, daily turnout etc.
Her management has changed as of yesterday as moved yards. Shes now in a large 15x13 stable and has a miniature for companion. Has daily turnout (8am to 4pm).
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In that case you now need to give her a chance to settle in before you go frantically changing feeds or you won't know what has made the difference to her if she suddenly picks up!
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As much fibre as she will eat as in hay or haylege, have you wormed her? Have you spoken to a vet about her weight I would do both, most conditioning feeds will hot some horses up so its a case of try and see really, but stick to what you choose as it can take a while, I have used equijewel with good results might be worth a try its not cheap though.
 
*hic* said:
AmeliaVDW said:
*hic* said:
I'd have a good look at her whole management including the size of stable, where it's located, companions, daily turnout etc.


In that case you now need to give her a chance to settle in before you go frantically changing feeds or you won't know what has made the difference to her if she suddenly picks up!
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Planning for a diet change after Xmas and New Year, so should be settled in by then, but my local feed merchant has to order it in, so if I do it now I know it'll be in by January.

Pinkvboots said:
As much fibre as she will eat as in hay or haylege, have you wormed her? Have you spoken to a vet about her weight I would do both, most conditioning feeds will hot some horses up so its a case of try and see really, but stick to what you choose as it can take a while, I have used equijewel with good results might be worth a try its not cheap though.
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Last wormed in September. I've heard a few good things about equijewel and the show improver pencils. Anyone else have an expereince of these feeds?

joeanne said:
I would want ulcers ruled out too....
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Silly question, but how would you tell a horse has ulcers (without scoping)? She seems fine when grooming her belly and you can girth up no problem.
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Good quality fibre, ad lib hay, 3 feeds a day of fibre, grass nuts etc, micronised linseed and garlic for the blood... works wonders on ym sensitive 17hh hanovarian who is a poor doer.
 
AdorableAlice said:
AmeliaVDW said:
*hic* said:
AmeliaVDW said:
I've heard a few good things about equijewel and the show improver pencils. Anyone else have an expereince of these feeds?

All work and put top onto a horse doing plenty of hill work and correct schooling. Not much quantity is needed from any of the above and the product was added to a basic ration of adlib haylage, quality chaff and competition mix.
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They made my horse explosive! Not good for sensitive horses imho. IMO competition mixes etc are high indigestable for horses due to their high startch levels, same with show improver or conditioning feeds. They cause a lot of sugars to be releases very quickly into the blood stream. Horses are hind gut fermenters(sp?), evolved to break down fibre based diet in their large intestine, i would feed a diet as natural as possible, you can get good calories from fibre, artificial mixes are not always what they seem. ;)
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Pinkvboots said:
As much fibre as she will eat as in hay or haylege, have you wormed her? Have you spoken to a vet about her weight I would do both, most conditioning feeds will hot some horses up so its a case of try and see really, but stick to what you choose as it can take a while, I have used equijewel with good results might be worth a try its not cheap though.
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id be looking at a non heating feed UNLESS... imo a horse that is that badley underweight should not be being ridden, worgen off the ground to encourage the top line yes .. but no rider..

equi jewel, blue chip etc can work, but id only use if i could give the horse 3-4 small feeds a day, if you can lay off the riding work then a straight barley, or even linseed (can heat some neds up) and a good general vit supplement.

id also be looking at conditon of feet and coat, even gum colour, as some horses will loose weight stressing, the other issues would indicate an underlying issue..
 
Fibre, oil, maybe magnesium to help destress? I'd avoid sugar as much as possible, if she's a stressy type she might be worrying the weight off and sugar could be winding her up.
 
The general inability to hold condition could be indicative of ulcers.
You have an animal that has never really looked all that great weightwise, so I would be looking for an underlaying cause. Ulcers could be part/some/all the reason.
 
Sorry missed your post Pinkvboots - yes I've spoken to a vet. He believes that is the the stressing the weight off! So need a feed that isn't high in sugar or energy as she isn't worked a lot, especially as she doesn't hold her weight at the moment.

Been looking at balancers - but not sure they will add weight. The more I look into the anaylsis of feed the more worried I'm getting! I like A&P's ingredients, but it doesn't seem to have an effect on the mare.

Ideally I want to keep it simple and not have X amount of different feeds to give her.

Would keeping her on C&C then offer fast fibre at night so she's got maximum intake of fibre as well as adlib hay.

Possibly add something to C&C to help more with weight gain?
 
C&C is the work of the devil.....
You need to keep it fibre based if at all possible.
You could try switching hay for haylage (higher protein content), and something like pure easy and then add oil (linseed, soya....).
I honestly do think you need to get a good equine vet out to start some investigations into why she is not holding weight.
 
joeanne said:
C&C is the work of the devil.....
You need to keep it fibre based if at all possible.
You could try switching hay for haylage (higher protein content), and something like pure easy and then add oil (linseed, soya....).
I honestly do think you need to get a good equine vet out to start some investigations into why she is not holding weight.
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A vet has seen the mare. She's the type that lives off her nerves and since being re-broken she has been rather stressed which has caused the detoriation.
 
As a 4 year old I think you need to be looking to put muscle on as she is lacking any topline from tail to ears so ad lib good quality hay or haylage if it does not make her stressy along with 3 or 4 feeds a day but keep it simple and don't be tempted to rush things as she looks to have a fair bit more to develop, and then slow work long and low but active so that she builds up muscle. its possible that she has never been ridden to work her top properly and it takes longer to develop the muscles than to get them back after a rest.
 
My tb would lose weight very quickly and we went thought winter after having her back and teeth done to rule out anything, we didn't think it was ulcers but they we next on the list if feed didn't work and a calm yard.

We opted for hay, as much as she could eat in the field and stable , Alfa a oil, linseed and equine answers 365. During the coldest periods I would soak grass nuts and add. A Stubbs scoop of Alfa was fed three times a day. She was also rugged very well.
 
adlib haylage, topline conditioning cubes (weigh it out-I'm guessing you probably only fed two scoops or so a day?) and I'd worm qith equest pramox too.
 
My 16.1 TB, who also needs more weight on but feeds high in sugar/starch are a no no, is on speedi beet, mollichaff conditioning, and linseed twice a day, plus all the hay he can scoff. This seems to be a good combination for him as he's started putting weight on, and has decreased his wind sucking.
 
AmeliaVDW said:
A vet has seen the mare. She's the type that lives off her nerves and since being re-broken she has been rather stressed which has caused the detoriation.
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Unless your vet scoped her, I can't see how he would have ruled them out.
Same with bloods....unless taken, you have no idea of whats going on...or whats not going on...
I would seriously think about getting a decent equine vet out to investigate the reason she cannot hold weight.
 
joeanne said:
Unless your vet scoped her, I can't see how he would have ruled them out.
Same with bloods....unless taken, you have no idea of whats going on...or whats not going on...
I would seriously think about getting a decent equine vet out to investigate the reason she cannot hold weight.
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^^^this
 
She is 4, is she growing much? If so that could explain things, one of mine looked crap as an early 4yo, turned out he had grown 2 inches in 3 months!

If she were mine I'd firstly run a blood sample, including tape worm testing, and pramox her.

Feed wise, I'd either do a coolstance copra and Alfa oil with a cut/min supplement or I'd try pure feeds. I'd also add protein acid ease which is a pre& pro biotic plus an ant acid.
 
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