What would you have done ?

Goldenstar

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Last night someone rang me they have an old pony and they wanted to borrow some Danilon from me because ' the vet would not give me any more until I pay my bill' they said they where away and could not get home and their partner said the pony was in 'bad way' .
The pony is very old has Cushings and repeated bouts of lami and should IMO been PTS a long time ago , a friend kicked them off her yard for non payment and because of the state of the pony that must be five years ago .
I refused to give them the drugs , my vet lets me have boxes of danilon to manage Horses they see regularity and the vets are very involved in the horses health.
I don't know what's wrong with the pony over and above the usual , It might the frozen ground hurting it's awful feet and I just felt I it was not right to just hand over drugs to be given to some else's pony and I was worried they would just delay paying the vet and getting proper advice .
I have feeling awful all day ,what would you all have done .
 
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Shay

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You did absolutely the right thing. You cannot give controlled drugs to someone for use on a pony who hasn't seen the vet. Especially in these circumstances! I expect you feel pretty mean to the pony but the only way to get proper attention for him is to refuse. Plus of course giving them the drugs would be breaking the law - although I'm sure that is one of those laws that is difficult if not impossible to enforce. You did the right thing.
 

be positive

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I would probably have done the same as you, I also would have felt bad all day for doing so, like you I have Danilon in the yard to use as and when required I will hand some over to a livery if I know what it is for or use it myself short term for minor issues, the pony you were told about sounds beyond a few sachets, in the circumstances it would probably be far better off pts but they probably cannot afford that either or think they are doing the best for the poor thing.

In cases such as this I really wish vets would speak out and suggest pts, most avoid doing so unless actually asked about it, even then they often go round in circles trying to be tactful, if it is on prascend it will be running up a fair bill each month with it only delaying the inevitable possibly causing the owners hardship in the process not to mention not getting pain relief when it needs it as they have no cash.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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You did absolutely the right thing. You cannot give controlled drugs to someone for use on a pony who hasn't seen the vet. Especially in these circumstances! I expect you feel pretty mean to the pony but the only way to get proper attention for him is to refuse. Plus of course giving them the drugs would be breaking the law - although I'm sure that is one of those laws that is difficult if not impossible to enforce. You did the right thing.

Totally agree ^

Are they local? If pony really poor & needing meds, perhaps call a welfare officer (BHS or WHW) to see if they can give verbal assistance to the owners? (just an idea)
 

millikins

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I really don't know, you know these people, I don't. I think I'd call WHW or BHS though, if the pony needs a vet and theirs won't attend.
 

Wagtail

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I think you did the right thing. If put in the same situation I would probably have talked to the owners and asked what they plan to do about getting the pony veterinary attention. I may have agreed to give them a handful of sachets on the proviso that that I would not be giving them any more and it was just a couple of days worth to keep the pony comfortable until the vet or even hunt could come and see to the pony. But I would probably be wrong in doing that. I'm just a bit of a soft touch unfortunately.
 

Tiddlypom

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I'd have done the same as you. Not given the Danilon, and then spent the day feeling dreadful. You can't go handing out drugs to other people's animals.

I would hope the vet would come out to a seriously ill animal even if there was money owing, but maybe they've been made a mug of too often.

Take care, and go easy on yourself.
 

Goldenstar

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Totally agree ^

Are they local? If pony really poor & needing meds, perhaps call a welfare officer (BHS or WHW) to see if they can give verbal assistance to the owners? (just an idea)

Been done many times BHS RSPCA the lot , the partner of the person who made the call is completely against PTS I would go as far as saying is an anti euthanasia fundamentalist and has threatened to end the marriage if the other person PTS the pony( and the horse they had too that's another whole story in the drama over that one I gave them a thermatex a no fill turnout rug a he'd collar a graze guard muzzle and a bit bridle and a lunge rein never saw them again ).
The horse ended up being PTS for complications connected to cushings during one of those PTS in extremity situations that we all hope to avoid .
I feel terrible I know they will be thinking I am a rich bitch who would give them a few quids worth of drugs when my horses have anything .
She's a very sweet little pony to, deserves so much better .
 

Honey08

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God, how awful Goldenstar. What a stupid person! I'd be livid at them. I'd probably give them a couple of sachets but I would also tell them exactly what I thought of them for putting the pony through what they're putting it through,cand they ought to be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame vets haven't the right to seize and PTS animals that are obviously suffering whose owners won't PTS or treat.

ETA if my husband refused to PTS something that was suffering and threatened to end the marriage if I did that marriage would be done!
 

EventingMum

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I think you were totally in the right. I would have encouraged them to speak to the vet, if the pony was in such pain the vet would have had a duty of care to see the pony regardless of the bill being paid. I know our vets have a "black list" of non payers and won't go out for routine treatments like vaccinations but will do for colics etc, I suppose it would depend on how the vet classed the pony's suffering.
 

Handsome Jack

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I agree with Honey08 I would of given her a couple of sachets - whoever she is life is obviously hard to behave in this way, but that is not the fault of the poor horse. I hope it gets the treatment whatever that is soon :(
 

Goldenstar

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I think you were totally in the right. I would have encouraged them to speak to the vet, if the pony was in such pain the vet would have had a duty of care to see the pony regardless of the bill being paid. I know our vets have a "black list" of non payers and won't go out for routine treatments like vaccinations but will do for colics etc, I suppose it would depend on how the vet classed the pony's suffering.

It's not my vet practise , they parted company with them some years ago .
If it had been I would have rung the vet for advice .
I suspect perhaps they ran out of routine meds and the vet won't give more .
Your not getting the whole story here it's long .
I feel very bad for the pony .
 

EventingMum

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It's hard, as no one likes to hear of a pony suffering and perhaps the ongoing bute is preventing the owner from seeing the true problem, especially if the partner won't accept PTS presumably he won't want to acknowledge the extent of the pony's pain. I wasn't suggesting you should get involved with their vets, client confidentiality etc apart, just that they should be encouraged to discuss the current situation with their vets though from what you say they may not be agreeable to that. You're between a rock and a hard place - not easy for you at all and definitely not fair on the poor pony.
 

Spring Feather

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Because of where I live, my farm is in a central location between two big vet practices (I use both practices) and I often have people ask the same because they know I hold a very well stocked vet room. I am more than happy to hand over drugs to these people in emergency situations however whichever vet is telling them to use whatever drug MUST phone me first and give his permission and the dosage. I will NOT give out more drugs than the vet specifically tells me to.

Sooo had I been put in the same situation GS, I would also have refused unless I was contacted directly by their vet.
 

Emma_H

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You're only human to feel bad, you're a responsible owner who does the best for her horses and can't bear seeing others neglected.

I would feel the same in your position but I don't know what I would have done, I think I would have given them it but with a talking to. I don't know as I've never been in that position with anything other than a sachet of bute.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Goldenstar, I've been ruminating on this over early dinner.
Are you solvent enough to offer them 50 or a hundred quid or so & buy the pony, then PTS?
Long story, but I did exactly that in a similar case with a pony my late friend owned yrs ago. Hated handing over the cash, but (to me, at that time) it was the quickest solution. Sorry, prob not of help at all.
xx
 

Polos Mum

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I'm a sucker so would have handed it over. That doesn't make it the right thing to do. Sounds like lots of people have given them lots of sensible advice for this pony and previous ones - you can't help some people which is really sad on the animals they inflict their crazy beliefs on.
If agencies have been involved before there's not much more you can do.
 

twiggy2

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God, how awful Goldenstar. What a stupid person! I'd be livid at them. I'd probably give them a couple of sachets but I would also tell them exactly what I thought of them for putting the pony through what they're putting it through,cand they ought to be ashamed of themselves. It's a shame vets haven't the right to seize and PTS animals that are obviously suffering whose owners won't PTS or treat.

ETA if my husband refused to PTS something that was suffering and threatened to end the marriage if I did that marriage would be done!

vets can override the owners wishes but there is a lot of red tape in doing so and the vets put themselves in a risky position by doing it
 

happyclappy

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I would have done exactly the same thing, and think you made the correct decision. There are a few close friends I would allow to have a few, but this would be a very rare thing and only to someone I know and trust well.
 

Goldenstar

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Goldenstar, I've been ruminating on this over early dinner.
Are you solvent enough to offer them 50 or a hundred quid or so & buy the pony, then PTS?
Long story, but I did exactly that in a similar case with a pony my late friend owned yrs ago. Hated handing over the cash, but (to me, at that time) it was the quickest solution. Sorry, prob not of help at all.
xx

I could of course but MrGS would go nuts not because he's ungenerous because he's not but because I have been here with them before .
And also there's no way the partner would allow it , I would describe them as an anti PTS fundamentalist .
 

twiggy2

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sad situation but if you gave them bute this time then they would never go to the vets and you would end up illegally and financially supplying bute for a pony that should be PTS-I do not give it to anyone anymore as I am fed up with people not replacing it-my vet is happy for me to have a few and to advised the use over the phone in certain situations
 

zaminda

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I would have done the same as you, and then rung a welfare organisation and possibly also tried to work out which vet they use, and contacted them too. They sound like the sort of people who shouldn't be allowed animals.
 

fatpiggy

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I'm afraid if someone told me they would end our marriage like that I'd beat them to it with the divorce papers. They are just a control freak, and they are controlling the poor pony too to suit themselves. Disgusting. Definitely call the welfare people, WHW are brilliant.
 

Goldenstar

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I'm afraid if someone told me they would end our marriage like that I'd beat them to it with the divorce papers. They are just a control freak, and they are controlling the poor pony too to suit themselves. Disgusting. Definitely call the welfare people, WHW are brilliant.

All the welfare organisations have done their bit with them theres a huge amount of back story here .
I can't get to where the pony is now it's very private I think personally the vets are at fault however when someone's very anti PTS I can see it's difficult and they are the Errrrr cheapest vets in the area.
 

Tobiano

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Awful situation. You did the right thing. That pony needs the vet and it's owners need to get the vet to it. If you had given them Danilon it would have given them the excuse not to for even longer. Poor pony.
 
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