What would you pay?

[TheChestnutThing]

Good morning everyone,

I am looking for opinions to make sure that we don't under charge.

Livery yard in an exclusive area with no other liveries that offer the same space etc within 10 miles. Only yard in the actual area.

We would like to offer full livery only or 5 day livery and limit to people preferably with more than one horse due to the estate being a private family yard.

Based in Hertfordshire.

All year turn out, irrigated paddocks with rotation. Herd environment with mares and gelding seperate, no stallions.
All weather arena
Indoor will be built
large old stud farm type stables
rubber matted
Hay ad lib in stables
Concentrates/feed catered specifically for each horse up to 4kgs per day (speedi/fibre/balancer all included)

Based in Hertfordshire on the London side.

I had at other yards to get an idea and I would hazard to say between 550 and 700 a month.

Would I be barking up the right tree so to speak?

 

[Goldenstar]

When you say the stables are rubber matted are they to bedded properly ?

 

[TheChestnutThing]

When you say the stables are rubber matted are they to bedded properly ?

yes, sorry I should have said, will be bedded with shavings.

 

[Goldenstar]

then you should get the top price for your area .
you might need to provide some small paddocks as well for horse waiting for vet and farrier visits that sort of thing and some owners may freak at group turnout and you will have to be ready to manage when group does not work
Are you adding in grooming and tack care exercise when owners are not there ,is it truly turn up and ride livery when you want livery .
you need to charge £250 a week for that but the question is is there enough people who will pay it in the area .

 

[TheChestnutThing]

then you should get the top price for your area .
you might need to provide some small paddocks as well for horse waiting for vet and farrier visits that sort of thing and some owners may freak at group turnout and you will have to be ready to manage when group does not work
Are you adding in grooming and tack care exercise when owners are not there ,is it truly turn up and ride livery when you want livery .
you need to charge £250 a week for that but the question is is there enough people who will pay it in the area .

Thank you for this.

Grooming will be included every day when they come in from the field. Exercise is optional and extra. Tack cleaning will be extra aswell. Outside instructors are welcome at no extra cost. Liveries will have separate arena to owners aswell.

We would rather have the right clients and only have a few then 20 liveries and they are not right if that makes sense. In this case we are limiting to 10 livery clients. If group turn out is not what they want, then we would sadly not be right for them. And we have a tack up bay and wash bay with cross ties as well as a sick paddock which would double as a holding paddock for farrier etc.

 

[Frumpoon]

I used to stable in this area and the price you describe is about right but what people will pay for are things like guaranteed daily turnout, a welcoming atmosphere, space to ride so an uncrowded manege or similar, onsite tuition, knowledgeable staff

The fact that you even mention that you want to limit to people who have more than one horse would ring alarm bells for me and I wouldn't have considered a yard that suggested this despite having more than one horse. Part of doing livery is having people on your property and that is at all times potentially regardless of it being a private family estate

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I used to stable in this area and the price you describe is about right but what people will pay for are things like guaranteed daily turnout, a welcoming atmosphere, space to ride so an uncrowded manege or similar, onsite tuition, knowledgeable staff

The fact that you even mention that you want to limit to people who have more than one horse would ring alarm bells for me and I wouldn't have considered a yard that suggested this despite having more than one horse. Part of doing livery is having people on your property and that is at all times potentially regardless of it being a private family estate

Thanks for advice.

I think limit would be the wrong word. I will go back and change it. However I don't think it would ring alarm bells to be honest and wouldn't be advertsied as such.

As stated we have year round all day turn out.
There is onside tuition and an experienced stable manager as well who is very hands on.
Staff will obviously be experienced. No point to me in having staff who don't know their stuff as it makes your job harder.

 

[Frumpoon]

Sounds good

I think if you're on that heavy clay bit of Herts near Elstree then the offer of daily turnout in winter would swing it for me

 

[ihatework]

You’ll be at the upper end of the price bracket. Round me £150/week is the going rate for smart non-ridden livery. I think there is a premium to be had in London commuter belt. So £700pcm is just over £160/week. I actually wonder if you could break even on that with rates on an indoor school and the level of feed you are including.

If you can, and I appreciate wanting to limit numbers, but the multiple horse requirement might catch you out. You could possibly offer a discount on more than one horse?

For me, the winter turnout and the group turnout would be the selling point. But not everyone, especially looking for that type of livery, would be the same. You will probably exclude a few for no individual turnout.

Can they go out overnight and come in during the day in summer?

 

[TheChestnutThing]

You’ll be at the upper end of the price bracket. Round me £150/week is the going rate for smart non-ridden livery. I think there is a premium to be had in London commuter belt. So £700pcm is just over £160/week. I actually wonder if you could break even on that with rates on an indoor school and the level of feed you are including.

If you can, and I appreciate wanting to limit numbers, but the multiple horse requirement might catch you out. You could possibly offer a discount on more than one horse?

For me, the winter turnout and the group turnout would be the selling point. But not everyone, especially looking for that type of livery, would be the same. You will probably exclude a few for no individual turnout.

Can they go out overnight and come in during the day in summer?

Yes we could offer a discount on more than one horse.
I have the price list of the nearest comparative yard and they would be just under us but don't include grooming and shavings.

In summer we can offer full live out.

 

[ihatework]

Okay so for someone to groom a horse daily, even at a very conservative price of £1/day that adds £30 to the monthly fee. People on that type of livery will want good clean beds so I’d imagine a minimum of 2 bales a week - circa £60-70/month on bedding per horse.
In reality that is already costing you £100/month over your competitor

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Okay so for someone to groom a horse daily, even at a very conservative price of £1/day that adds £30 to the monthly fee. People on that type of livery will want good clean beds so I’d imagine a minimum of 2 bales a week - circa £60-70/month on bedding per horse.
In reality that is already costing you £100/month over your competitor

So in the right price bracket then?

 

[ihatework]

So in the right price bracket then?

Depends what the competitor is charging really.

For me as a paying customer I would rather spend £100 a month less (that’s an extra lesson or two a month) and have straw and no grooming because I like to groom my own horse and I have no issue with a good straw bed. That is assuming the yards were equivalent in all other ways.

Thing is, you can’t accommodate everyone so you need to set a hard line about what is and isn’t negotiable in your services. Cost it out and then compare to what else is around.

 

[Bernster]

Sounds lovely. Good turnout and good horse care are the big ones for me, plus good facilities, decent hacking, and a friendly yard that allows outside instructors or specialists like farrier etc. And where you can school and jump albeit with reasonable parameters (book ahead, don’t jump during busy periods) or a separate jump area.

Yards like this often have exercise, tack clean and some turnout (show prep etc) services at extra cost or in a special livery.

If it’s a top notch posh yard netherwylde charges 1150 pcm but others tend to be 650 pcm upwards. I’ve been at a few yards in Herts.

 

[TheHairyOne]

No idea qbout prices for your area but most yards my way include 1 bale of shavings a week (after the full bed when they arrive), but extra is charged for. Be startimg at about £700/month where I am and going up from there!

Some horses are totally disgusting, but having them out more than in will keep costs down for you.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Depends what the competitor is charging really.

For me as a paying customer I would rather spend £100 a month less (that’s an extra lesson or two a month) and have straw and no grooming because I like to groom my own horse and I have no issue with a good straw bed. That is assuming the yards were equivalent in all other ways.

Thing is, you can’t accommodate everyone so you need to set a hard line about what is and isn’t negotiable in your services. Cost it out and then compare to what else is around.

That's the thing isn't it. If you want to pay less you will and if the price is right and the yard is right then that is what you pay.

 

[Bernster]

Maybe just to add, from your post I’d say go top end of that range if it’s a smart yard and the care is good quality. For comparison full livery with exercise and grooming where I am is 700pcm and I left a similar livery charging more like 800pcm.

 

[teapot]

Yard near me that has 24/7 turnout in herds, decent sized rubber matted boxes (if you want one), two outdoors (both floodlit), one massive indoor, jump field, checks are done twice daily, all feed/hay is included, vet clinis/farrier/saddler all organised for you. Cost - £800 a month.

That's West Sussex, but not just a sole livery yard.

 

[IrishMilo]

I keep my horse in Herts and I would say for what you're offering £7-750pcm would be about right, with riding charged extra.

If I didn't love my current yard so much I'd be on the phone to you now!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I had my chestnut mare on part livery (all care bar exercise, also had mare and gelding daily turnout) for a few months in the Herts commuter belt area, so similar to what you are offering and I left it to go DIY. The issue was't the cost, it was that I felt unwelcome at the yard plus my mare did not like the staff as she's sensitive and needs a bit more time to gain her trust ad they just didn't seem willing to adjust their handling to suit a more timid type personality horse. I also did not trust the YO after an incident where my mare was hurt and they ever explained to me what happened despite me asking.

I'm really typing this to show you where that yard went wrong so that you don't make the same mistakes. I don't think that I was an unreasonable client, I accept that accidents happen with horses, but I want to be told the truth and kept informed. I don't expect to turn up at the yard after a weird phone call asking if I was going to the yard today and find my horse with blood coming out of her mouth plus other cuts due to a accident that wasn't mentioned in the phone call.

Livery isn't just about the price, it's also about feeling comfortable going to the yard, trusting the yard to look after your horse and feeling that you can communicate calmly and effectively with the staff/YO.

This yard is still running so probably will be one of your competitors. I had fellow liveries who were unhappy but stayed there due to needing full/part livery, so if you have really good customer relations and can deal with sensitive horses, I can imagine that people would pay well for that.

 

[Bernster]

I keep my horse in Herts and I would say for what you're offering £7-750pcm would be about right, with riding charged extra.

If I didn't love my current yard so much I'd be on the phone to you now!

waves! Love to know where you are, pm if preferred, always good to know good yards in the area ?

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I had my chestnut mare on part livery (all care bar exercise, also had mare and gelding daily turnout) for a few months in the Herts commuter belt area, so similar to what you are offering and I left it to go DIY. The issue was't the cost, it was that I felt unwelcome at the yard plus my mare did not like the staff as she's sensitive and needs a bit more time to gain her trust ad they just didn't seem willing to adjust their handling to suit a more timid type personality horse. I also did not trust the YO after an incident where my mare was hurt and they ever explained to me what happened despite me asking.

I'm really typing this to show you where that yard went wrong so that you don't make the same mistakes. I don't think that I was an unreasonable client, I accept that accidents happen with horses, but I want to be told the truth and kept informed. I don't expect to turn up at the yard after a weird phone call asking if I was going to the yard today and find my horse with blood coming out of her mouth plus other cuts due to a accident that wasn't mentioned in the phone call.

Livery isn't just about the price, it's also about feeling comfortable going to the yard, trusting the yard to look after your horse and feeling that you can communicate calmly and effectively with the staff/YO.

This yard is still running so probably will be one of your competitors. I had fellow liveries who were unhappy but stayed there due to needing full/part livery, so if you have really good customer relations and can deal with sensitive horses, I can imagine that people would pay well for that.

I am so sorry to hear that you went through this experience. We definitely would not work like that. In fact one of our weekend grooms is a vet student.
I have been at a yard like the one you a describing and have learnt from being at yards what not to do. Without your clients you are nothing. Also having run two yards we know that customers always come first and the customers are the horses. I think nothing of pulling a livery off their horse if I see any type of cruelty or abuse and we will have someone on site all the time.