what's the difference between DHP's and dartmoors?

[riding_high]

i'm trying to work out what the difference is between dartmoor hill ponies and dartmoors, i know they are bred by commoners and stuff but that's about it.

i also know the dartmoor association isn't the same as the dartmoor hill pony society.

are you able to show dartmoor hill ponies in native classes? i know that sounds stupid but i've been looking and so far can only find the dartmoors in the native 'grouping' but not the DHP's.

anyone able to explain it better for me to understand please??

 

[Maesfen]

I'm not the best person to ask but basically, the Dartmoor Pony is one of our nine native breeds and as such will have verified parentage going back years which also means they are very much of the same type, height, colour and the usual characteristics that you associate with proper native breeds such as hardiness and strength. I think in the past they have occasionally had an influx of Arab blood but in the main they are a pure breed and should be encouraged to keep their traditions; they should not be diluted if they are to still run on the moor; they are a precious heritage of this country.
The Dartmoor Hill Pony can be any breed, many jumbled up whatsoever and they only get the name Dartmoor because they have been owned and bred indiscriminately by the commoners of Dartmoor. The ones I have seen have all been ugly and with not very good conformation, typical market place ponies and why anyone is trying to preserve them is totally beyond me. The Park Authority should be encouraged to ban them from the moor and encourage the commoners to engage in pure Dartmoor breeding as they make excellent children's mounts or perhaps get more cattle and sheep on the moor if they are worried that the grazing will get on top of the ponies. But that's purely my view as a traditionalist and lover of our native breeds being able to be kept and bred on their own turf as has happened for centuries.
I'm sure there will be DHP fans somewhere but even they must agree that too many of them are being bred hence why there is the latest appeals for homes for them.

You can show Dartmoors in registered M&M classes but not the DHP as they are not registered as a native breed.

 

[Spudlet]

^^Sounds about right to me.

Sadly DHPs are not well bred in my experience, they are normally a pretty pathetic sight to be honest. They tend to be pretty small, pretty scrubby, and pretty badly built.

Dartmoors are lovely, but DHPs not so much - I'd like to see an end to their breeding too. These poor little mites only end up suffering.

 

[fleabittengrey]

The DHPs I have seen (have two and a show pony out of a DHP mare) have all been about 13hh and built like brick proverbial-houses although no glaring conformational errors just a leg at each corner pony, but then I suppose by nature of them being such a Heinz 57 there are all different sorts.

 

[pip6]

A lot of hill ponies (especially on Bodmin) are coloured. Guess they reckon they will sell better.

 

[riding_high]

thanks, that sort of makes more sense to me than what i've been reading on the internet! lol

so if you had one what classes could it be shown in (either in hand or ridden)??

i agree that the DHP's should be stopped, if only to stop so many poor little things being shot. no point in breeding if you can't look after yourself or sell on to good homes.

 

[pip6]

They don't breed them to keep themselves or worry about what homes they go to. They breed because their forebears have (my great grandfather strated the herd in etc) & too make money. These are still very tough ponies, surviving with some assistance in winter. The only reason they will stop breeding is when they don't make money (as is the current situation), even if it's only meat money. Often the excess is just shot, even if very young. The farmers wont keep them out of the goodness of their hearts generally if they don't at least pay their way. Farming is their livelihood, they can't afford to be overly sentimental. Bullocks & sheep after all are kept to provide a living.

 

[Spudlet]

They don't breed them to keep themselves or worry about what homes they go to...

That's for damn sure.

 

[riding_high]

totally agree, i wasn't saying that they did care, they do only do it for money why else would they keep doing it. i was making a 'sweeping' statement.

i know of 2 brothers who breed the DHP's and they really don't give a damn about the ponies, they just want the money. they don't give them a single thought.

 

[Maesfen]

Sorry late getting back to you.

Your pony could go in any un registered classes of course but not classes for registered M & Ms and depending on type, possibly SHP or WHP under saddle. There are lots of classes at small shows you could do but the bigger shows usually need registration with a certain society to do them; each show is different. You need to decide which type your pony is and find classes to suit you both. Good luck.

 

[jhoward]

^^Sounds about right to me.

Sadly DHPs are not well bred in my experience, they are normally a pretty pathetic sight to be honest. They tend to be pretty small, pretty scrubby, and pretty badly built.

Dartmoors are lovely, but DHPs not so much - I'd like to see an end to their breeding too. These poor little mites only end up suffering.

what utter tripe! whilst some are not well put together many are! it is this opinion that often lands them up with no hope or purpose. the lad below is a 6 yr 13.1 dartmoor hill pony. lovley study chap jumps like a stag and certinally isnt a pathetic site! I could post many more pictures of DHP to prove that not all or even most are anything like what you think.

 

[s4sugar]

what utter tripe! whilst some are not well put together many are! it is this opinion that often lands them up with no hope or purpose. the lad below is a 6 yr 13.1 dartmoor hill pony. lovley study chap jumps like a stag and certinally isnt a pathetic site! I could post many more pictures of DHP to prove that not all or even most are anything like what you think.

Some turn out ok but are in the minority. Many are bred from poor stock and are not going to be good prospects especially as often the people "saving" them lack experience and these poor foals end up back at the sales or passed around.
I have seen batches of these with legs in all directions & upside down necks -things that can't be corrected by TLC.

It costs the same in feed and care to keep a poor pony as a good one. If you can buy a NF or Welshie of known parentage for the same as these mongrels why keep breeding them?

IMO the stallions should be taken off the moors for a couple of years and then a strict grading system brought in and stallions only allowed out for a couple of months so you don't get Autumn & Winter foals.
Any mare with bad conformation should be removed too. Many of these ponies are descendants of animals left behind because they were too poor to sell.

 

[Maesfen]

I did say in my post 'the ones I have seen' so was personally speaking about the ones I have seen, no others. There are good and bad in all types but the ones I saw (several different herds of them, not all in the same place) were certainly a load of rubbish conformation wise as in over/back at the knee, sickle hocks, goose rumps, ewe necks and ugly heads which can't all be attributed to age or condition. I can only speak as I found.
Good to know there are some useful sorts out there.

 

[Spudlet]

IN. MY. EXPERIENCE.
Does that help?

 

[jhoward]

take a chill pill spudlet, my point was by saying such as you did it gives them a bad reputation and puts people off, resulting in more ending up in the incinerator, fact is no one will stop the breeding, and its very unlikley pure dartmoors will be on the moors so in the meen time the ponies need all the help they can get!

start eating horse meat in the uk thats what i think, least then they would have more of a purpose! alond with all the other mongrels that are bred, usless races horses, and the average knackered ned!

 

[Dolcé]

A lot of hill ponies (especially on Bodmin) are coloured. Guess they reckon they will sell better.

Are the ponies from Bodmin called DHP then? We have 1 DHP and one from Bodmin, the DHP is more like a coloured mini shetland and odd to look at, the Bodmin pony is about 12.hh, was really ugly as a youngster but is very impressive to look at now, I never realised that he was a DHP too. We also have a pretty DHP (Bodmin) x Arab, that arrived with the other Bodmin pony and they bred a gorgeous foal that tbh, is very Dartmoor to look at, may explain why (12hh, bay, dorsal stripe, small neat head, unlike his sire).

 

[pip6]

Absolutely no idea, I just live between the 2 moors so see 'hill ponies' when I drive past (Dartmoor) or over (Bodmin) them! Bodmin especially there do seem to be far more coloureds than solids.

 

[hellspells]

Some turn out ok but are in the minority. Many are bred from poor stock and are not going to be good prospects especially as often the people "saving" them lack experience and these poor foals end up back at the sales or passed around.
I have seen batches of these with legs in all directions & upside down necks -things that can't be corrected by TLC.

It costs the same in feed and care to keep a poor pony as a good one. If you can buy a NF or Welshie of known parentage for the same as these mongrels why keep breeding them?

IMO the stallions should be taken off the moors for a couple of years and then a strict grading system brought in and stallions only allowed out for a couple of months so you don't get Autumn & Winter foals.
Any mare with bad conformation should be removed too. Many of these ponies are descendants of animals left behind because they were too poor to sell.

I ditto this ^^^ entirely. Sadly most DHP are confirmationaly dreadful. I feel incredibly sorry for the breed, especially when you hear that a whole shipment of them ended up in abroad, probably for their coats (If you have the heart look at this link half way down http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2010/11/and-the-ugly-2/# ).

But give me a purebred dartie any day. I love mine to pieces!

 

[Dolcé]

Funnily enough the original one is bay roan, as is the mare that came with him, the ones Ive seen at recent sales all appeared to be coloureds though and much poorer quality, it is 6 years since we bought the original pair.

 

[jhoward]

I ditto this ^^^ entirely. Sadly most DHP are confirmationaly dreadful. I feel incredibly sorry for the breed, especially when you hear that a whole shipment of them ended up in abroad, probably for their coats (If you have the heart look at this link half way down http://www.equinerescuefrance.org/2010/11/and-the-ugly-2/# ).

But give me a purebred dartie any day. I love mine to pieces!

there is a debate over weather thoose are DHP.. far to small even if foals.

 

[hellspells]

there is a debate over weather thoose are DHP.. far to small even if foals.

There is no debate to whether these were DHP or not, they are their chips were read at the sale and very sadly they are DHP.

 

[competitiondiva]

Surely the DHL is not a breed???? It is a type, they are cross breeds etc without known ancestory, and quite often due to the uncontrolled colts/stallions etc on the hills, can often be inbred. BUT I am sure there will be a few 'farmers' who take a little more pride in their stock and probably breed better stock as a result. JHoward, your little pony is gorgeous but surely that has actual dartmoor blood in it? It resembles a pure breed remarkably!!???

 

[jhoward]

Surely the DHL is not a breed???? It is a type, they are cross breeds etc without known ancestory, and quite often due to the uncontrolled colts/stallions etc on the hills, can often be inbred. BUT I am sure there will be a few 'farmers' who take a little more pride in their stock and probably breed better stock as a result. JHoward, your little pony is gorgeous but surely that has actual dartmoor blood in it? It resembles a pure breed remarkably!!???

hes not mind, sadley id squish him! he is off the moor, bought from the sales and is just classed as a hill pony.

shame though as many have said hes very dartmoor like. and he is a stunning looking pony.

 

[RuthnMeg]

The ponies who are on Bodmin Moor are known as Bodmin Hill Ponies, but to me are very much like DHP.
So many DHP are here, you can see how different they all are, a few scrawny little things, but many end up being good childs ponies.
http://www.mareandfoal.org/db/disp.cgi
I am another one who thinks that the commoners should have a stallion grading, just to get a better pony, there is only so much Heinz you can have!
A good pure Dartmoor is a great pony, as is the Exmoor, whom I believe is nearer to extinction than the D's. Sad.

 

[paddy555]

hes not mind, sadley id squish him! he is off the moor, bought from the sales and is just classed as a hill pony.

shame though as many have said hes very dartmoor like. and he is a stunning looking pony.

a lovely looking pony Jhoward. A real credit to you

I agree many of the comments about over breeding, farmers etc etc and I see it at first hand as I drive through these ponies every day.
I don't however agree that they are as poor or as useless as people are suggesting. I have 2. I certainly didn't choose to have them and I always thought, as many do on here, that they were rubbish. I was very wrong. I have taken kids out on pure bred Dartmoors and after experience of the DHP I would choose the hill pony in preference. My first DHP, which was basically a resuce case, is a beautiful looking pony. My horses struggle to keep up with it at a canter and it jumps like a stag. If I had a rider it would be tearing around hunter trials courses and pony club games.
My second is only a foal. He looked awful when he came, undergrown and malnourished. Three months on and he is a different pony with a temperament to die for.
I wish they would stop breeding,, I hate the culling, the greed of the farmers and all the rest of it but I just wanted to point out that they are not rubbish. Get them off the moor, feed and worm them and they blossom.

 

[jhoward]

an intresting job for a DHP

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/...orsepower/article-3115210-detail/article.html

 

[Spot_the_Risk]

Just as a point of interest, the pure bred Dartmoors were 'created' using Welsh and Arab blood, and will all go back to the stallion 'The Leat' - http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/history.html DHP means Dartmoor hill pony, bred on the commons of Dartmoor, therefore does not include ponies bred off the moor ie Bodmin ponies!

Just to confuse the issue further, there is also the Dartmoor heritage pony, of pure bred type, colour etc, but not registered as purebred! This may clarify the different types http://www.dpht.co.uk/comparison.php

 

[Potato!]

I know many of the farmers who keep both Dartmoors and DHP and BELIEVE ME ITS NOT FOR GREED! They have to make a living and while there is a market then they will breed them, they last couple of years there hasn't a market for them here but there is elsewhere. I agree with j howard in until people start eating horse meat over her then they will have to go elsewhere.

Oh and by just grazing cows and sheep on Dartmoor wont work because they eat different grasses and cows are not allowed out on Dartmoor in winter when ponies are.