When do you admit defeat *long*

[ilvpippa]

& decide your horse just doesnt want to do dressage after a certain level. She can do lateral work etc, she has lovely paces, active hindleg & looks stunning.
I brought her as an allrounder small scale eventer to aim to about BE100. Dont get me wrong, she loves to jump, awesome hunter, bold, brave, hacks, you name it, she does it - except enjoy flatwork much shes so stubbon & dominant she always knows better in her eyes. I love my little mare so much, im proud to have that horse that everyone wants. The option is just to hack, hunt her & jump intill summer to give her a break or crack on as you wouldnt believe the improvment in her i could send her away for schooling but shes a sensitive soul
It would break my heart to sell, but i get so frustrated with her. Keep changing my mind every minute. Instructor says perseve as she went amazing the other day. I really want to give her every opportunity to come through. Had her 2 years shes only 9 & had 7 different owners. So selling is the last last resort.

Sorry its so long.

 

[AmyMay]

What exactly is her issue?

 

[ilvpippa]

She fights you the whole time when taking a contact, head up, head down, snatching the reins, i get none of this, only when schooling. She can do a decent test when shes in a good mood, but like today, she just fights the whole time.

 

[noblesteed]

I can't help but I do sympathise. I have one that hates dressage. I bought him aiming for novice, he is perfectly capable. But he hated being at the competition yard, hated schooling, and is utterly unreliable in a dressage comp - can either go round like a speedy giraffe whinnying, spook at everything or he will be fab and do really well. I just can't be bothered with it any more. Selling him is out of the question. He doesn't behave like that doing sj so I do a bit of that and the odd prelim for a bit of fun, rc, hunting, hacking. I guess it depends on how much you want to compete.

 

[Honey08]

Am I understanding the issue right - you don't want to jump anymore, but concentrate on dressage, and the horse, although ok at flatwork, loves to jump?

I've a mare a bit like this, and I've taught lots of people that have bought ex-eventers to be dressage horses, then wondered why the horse started exploding with frustration. I haven't jumped my mare for two years, as I'm recovering from a shoulder injury and operation. I gave our Sunday groom a lesson on her a few weeks ago, as she will use her for PC this year, and I did a bit of grid work with them. You could see the look of pleasure and relief descend over my mare..

I think that if you want to go down the dressage route, sell her, find her a home who will do the things that s he enjoys with her, and find something that will suit your desires and aims more. My mare could be described as you did your mare - works fine, nice action etc, but she really is a speed junkie, and only tolerates dressage as she knows it will lead to a good blast round XC later! I don't think a dressage-only home are the fairest to these horses.

Its not a failure to sell....

 

[ilvpippa]

I don't have transport so only go out with my friends when they do. It just would be nice to school for half an hour & jer to get on with it. She's so capable, I just want to go out & show her off bless her. I ride someone's horse twice a week for them & I lve the fact I ask, she listens & then does. Mine knows exactly what to do, just ignores me. To be fair on her, she played polo till she was 7 till I brought her, so she has very different start to most horses. If only she was in a good mood all the time!

 

[ilvpippa]

Thank you ho ho honey. She loves it, when we go hunting it's like she has a deep breath & goes yes, I'm here, this is my job. I wouldn't mind only doing the dressage to go round cros country, but as I have no transport ATM, I can't get out hunting etc, I love hunting, fast sports, just would like co- operation on her behalf to use the talent she has in that area.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

In a nutshell- She's a mare, who doesn't like dressage, who used to play polo and now she is being tempremental?

Maybe you need to mix it up a bit, have you got a UK chasers course near you for XC and fun? Can you do pole work in your schooling? Can you play music and go down that route? Can you take her on a fun hack, school her half way round in a field and then carry on with the fun hack?! Do you set yourself time goals, or activity goals when you school her? Do you ride for 45 mins then stop, or wait until you have achieved what you set out to? How do you praise her for her hard work? A pat and bed, or a good hack and a bit of a jump?

IMO I think you need to make her life interesting again! Mix in what you want and then when you get to a comp at least she won't be board of dressage!

 

[maree t]

What a shame that you arent enjoying as much as you should. I would be inclined to perservere a bit longer if possible. If she has loads of variety in her work she may settle to it. My sons pony has been a bit of a nightmare over the past few years (he is only 6) and has argued and done his "mule " impression whenever doing flat work. Just recently he seems to be actually enjoying it and is going nicely. It is a heck of a change from polo and I hope you keep with her for a bit longer. Good luck

 

[AmyMay]

Thank you ho ho honey. She loves it, when we go hunting it's like she has a deep breath & goes yes, I'm here, this is my job. I wouldn't mind only doing the dressage to go round cros country, but as I have no transport ATM, I can't get out hunting etc, I love hunting, fast sports, just would like co- operation on her behalf to use the talent she has in that area.

So if you can't hunt or compete, because of lack of transport I'm struggling to see where the issues are.

A lot of the schooling you want to do can be done whilst hacking and you may find her more obliging.

I'm assuming you've had her teeth etc. done. But very few horses fail to accept the contact, and many of the problems we experience are down to us as riders not communicating effectively with our horses.

 

[Honey08]

She sounds very like my mare! My SJ instructor once described her as a "typical female - thinks she knows everything and won't listen!" (Don't worry - he was semi-joking, and I got my own back when I bought my husbands gelding - A typical bloke - perfectly capable but won't do it unless nagged..)

Anyway, with that kind of horse, you have to accept it to an extent. Thats how they are. I've been bringing my mare (and indeed myself) back to work this autumn, and trying to spend much more time working on the flatwork. Its helped a bit, but it will never really be her thing! Each time I get fed up I remember the feeling she gives me round a XC - bold as brass and like she has wings, and remember thats why I liked her!

It sounds like your real problem is that you're not getting out to enough things that you both enjoy and are stuck in a schooling rut..

 

[ilvpippa]

I try to hunt, hack whenever possible. Hack at least twice a week. Once if not twice there fast hacks. Hard atm cause of the ground being a bog. I was think of joining a horseball beginner team? As she would love it. Amymay, i know part of it, is my contact, which has improved, but she makes you work for everything. Never gives you an inch schooling. Jumping she gives you everything. I think i might try schooling once every 2 weeks.

 

[ilvpippa]

Your so right ho ho honey. Had to sell trailer as my car died! So i think when i can get her out more, she will thrive again. Think winter blues arent helping either.

 

[AmyMay]

Amymay, i know part of it, is my contact, which has improved, but she makes you work for everything.

I had a horse like that. Made me a much better rider. So, sort out your contact, and a lot will fall in to place. Bit mean to blame the horse, when perhaps some of the problem lies with you.

An easy horse to ride is great - but does it make us a better rider? I don't think so. It's the challenges that enable us to reach the goals we want, whatever they may be.


On the schooling issue - do you ever mix up the jumping and flat work? Would probably really help.

Also don't school in a menage - do it in a field if you need circles.

 

[Tammytoo]

I have an ex polo pony - she's brilliant, but hates schooling in an arena, just goes ploddy and very hard work. I'm giving her a break from formal schooling until the summer and in the meantime I'm just hacking out, but schooling as we go along i.e. leg yielding across the lane, shoulder-in down the side of the verge etc.

Is it so important that you do dressage? I am considering doing Western Riding which has its roots in Classical Dressage and encourages the horse to carry itself in a very balanced way with minimum effort from the rider.

Your horse sounds fabulous so I wouldn't be too quick to sell her on.

Just a thought, but have you had her teeth, neck and back thoroughly checked? If she's resisting the contact so much, even though you say you are partly to blame, it could be discomfort which is causing her to act the way she does.

 

[ilvpippa]

Thankyou everyone. I have a flat lesson once a week, thats the only time i school her as such. But i might give her the week off & then see if i can.have my lessons in the fields we are allowed to ride in? To add something different to her life. I know shes bored, but im finding it hard atm with work & dark nights to get out as much as i could. Im hunting with a friend on the 29 & a cross country clinic in feb. Hopefully it will revitalise her abit. Shes also had all checks done, before xmas but physio is out on monday.

 

[Bikerchickone]

Just a thought, but have you had her teeth, neck and back thoroughly checked? If she's resisting the contact so much, even though you say you are partly to blame, it could be discomfort which is causing her to act the way she does.

This. When schooling and asking the horse to work properly it puts more pressure on areas that may not be comfortable, which can give the reaction you got. Of course if she's all checked out regularly then this may not be the case but definitely worth discussing with your back person. My osteopath is amazing and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend her to anyone.

 

[Flight]

I too have a very similar mare, fortunately I don't really like dressage either so am not that bothered. She is my perfect horse in every other way so the fact she acts like a complete prat when doing dressage isn't a real problem. Some days she is fantastic and will do anything asked and other days she canters on the spot doing an impression of a giraffe. I have had some ride with your mind lessons and these have really helped as it has made me far more aware of little things that I do which she reacts too by changing contact. When I get it right she tries much harder to get it right too. I have also found that when she starts off in uncooperative mood I can get round it by trotting lots of small circles and changes of direction etc. I find that transitions can make her worse. I have tried lots of different instructors and some of them have been really good and had lots of different ideas to get her listening. I also find that just asking for short periods of good work followed by allowing her to stretch down for a couple of minutes before picking up again seems to help keep her relaxed. Don't give up just yet, have had mine 5 years and she is getting much better. Good luck.

 

[Honey08]

Its been quite interesting teaching someone else on my horse this winter too. It means that I can see whats happening as well as feel it, and have a different perspective on how to work through thing. Have you ever seen anyone else on her?

 

[ilvpippa]

Yep, all checks done regulary, she is spoilt! but I getting a physic out again on monday & she's having a new saddle soon. When she came to me, she had no idea what my hands were there for, she had been in a gag all her life pulled around & her mouth has suffered. But she lacks confidence in the contact, and I dont help as my contact is not always constitant. My instructor rides her, she is very experienced and she also backs me up that she's very strong willed. She has got a lot better, I feel harsh, when I have to. Say to her, no, I. Want you there're not bouncing around like a giraffe. It doesn't help I am at a yard where there are lots of very nice horses who cost a lot of money. I think I need to stop getting worked up & enjoy her, as she is a superstar.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Yep, all checks done regulary, she is spoilt! but I getting a physic out again on monday & she's having a new saddle soon. When she came to me, she had no idea what my hands were there for, she had been in a gag all her life pulled around & her mouth has suffered. But she lacks confidence in the contact, and I dont help as my contact is not always constitant. My instructor rides her, she is very experienced and she also backs me up that she's very strong willed. She has got a lot better, I feel harsh, when I have to. Say to her, no, I. Want you there're not bouncing around like a giraffe. It doesn't help I am at a yard where there are lots of very nice horses who cost a lot of money. I think I need to stop getting worked up & enjoy her, as she is a superstar.

I think therein lies the problem being an ex polo horse and in a gag at that Chances are she has been pulled to hell and back in that bit. Is it surprising that she now resents contact?
Have you considered going back to basics with her, join up? Or trying a neue schule bit or one that is softer in the mouth and promotes salivation like Salox, German silver, copper or sweet iron?
Or even just try in a bitless bridle for a while and mix schooling in this and a bitted bridle. Not sure what bit she is in now? But maybe something that is kind and will make her want to accept contact more.
I have a horse that is strong in the mouth. Why because he was hunted and jumped in a gag. Have tried various different bits and currently trying to get a neue schule or similar at a reasonable price in his size as he is rather large.
In total contrast is a cob we got as a green just broken in horse. Went back to basics with him. Have tried happy mouth, sweet iron and bitless bridle on him. He now has a neue schule and salivates lovely. He is not strong in his mouth, you can ride him so light he is like butter in your hands. I am convinced the big lad who is no spring chicken has been ruined by pulling on his mouth and a strong bit being used instead of trying other methods.
Also agree about other comments about mixing it up for her to keep her interested.

 

[ilvpippa]

Sorry to add, she's in a neue schule bit, not a gag, this is what she was in before I brought her.

 

[TigerTail]

To me she sounds like she needs rebitting and her mouth re educating from scratch. Not many 'normal' instructors would suggest or know about this tbh.

Whereabouts are you?

 

[ilvpippa]

East mids area. I was thinking of doing this, restarting her accept the hand

 

[honetpot]

Having had a TB that no contact was contact is there another way. If contact is weight in the reins perhaps she needs less,and no stiffness in the arms or shoulders.If she played polo as long as she went in the right direction at the right time who would care where her head was?
The TB we had would go beautifully 'on the bit' with no contact, no fixed elbows, shoulders etc. You literally legged him in to it and then he clicked. So as long as your safe I would forget the front end, ride with your seat and body and breathe. As soon as she gets it leave it and do something else and build up.

 

[TigerTail]

If I was you id try and get hold of Becky Holden, shes fab with the inhand stuff and mouthing and im fairly sure she covers your area

 

[AmyMay]

I think I need to stop getting worked up & enjoy her, as she is a superstar.

Exactly!

 

[flintfootfilly]

I was also thinking that Becky Holden would be an ideal trainer for you to contact. She is undertaking training with Philippe Karl at the moment, to become one of his accredited teachers, and has been teaching for years in her own right.

I would (and do) trust her with any of my gang. She is excellent at helping a horse feel confident with balance and contact. And she is also great at helping the rider/handler become more proficient in asking/rewarding the horse.

To be honest, though, I think you have to set aside any worries about how expensive your horse or any other horse around you is, and just treat her as you would treat any horse. Listen to her, respond, and ensure you are clear and consistent, and see where you get to.

When you let go of any preconceptions about what your horse should be able to do, or what others may expect from your horse, you'll free yourself up to really learn from your horse and develop together.

Hope this doesn't come across as arrogant. It's not intended that way. It's just that I really do believe that horses need us to be honest with them.

Oh, if you've not come across Philippe Karl's book "Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage", you may find it a really interesting read. I love it, and keep coming back to it, to remind myself of classical principles.

Sarah

 

[Fantasy_World]

Sorry to add, she's in a neue schule bit, not a gag, this is what she was in before I brought her.

Yes I realised she wasn't in a gag now. I just meant that misuse of the gag may have taught her bad habits, such as evasion of the bit etc.
I think someone else has now said what I was referring to which was to reschool over again from the beginning and to rebit too. Maybe even some join up, or don't just use the school for work. Play with her, I know some people hate the parelli word or natural horsemanship but sometimes some aspects of either can be good to get that bond back with your horse again. You could do this with or without tack. Or ride, or lunge with tack and then take it off and have some play time. My horses used to really enjoy this wind down time. I think it does also help to alleviate boredom as I see so many horses that just become brain dead the minute they enter a school as their routine is so structured and so much the same. I am not saying that is the issue with your mare but I wish more people would use schools to have fun with their horses, even if just to let them have a stretch and roll.

 

[ilvpippa]

Some interesting replies. We have a little indoor school where I try to go in and do join up, playtime & I do clicker training which she loves. She's just a mare that gets bored very easily. I'm not a massive believer in the natural horsemanship, but I might try and start more so her work varies. I ride her in the school once a week, hack the rest of the time. I think it's more the bit that's the problem, as in a hackamoore she is a different horse, a lot brighter & happier it seems, ditto when we go to parties. I will look up this ladies number. & give her a call. Thanks x