When is a 17 1/2”seat NOT a 17 1/2” seat?

[brighteyes]

Or, why would anyone 5’3” with a size 8/10 breech size and normal thigh length be recommended for one, especially if the rider rides quite long and their pony is short-coupled?

 

[Sossigpoker]

I can't imagine a pony especially a short backed one being able to accommodate 17.5 so that sounds a bit odd.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Or, why would anyone 5’3” with a size 8/10 breech size and normal thigh length be recommended for one, especially if the rider rides quite long and their pony is short-coupled?

Person recommending must either have a saddle that size they want to flog, or has done a 1 day course in saddle 'fitting' ?

 

[Fieldlife]

Person recommending must either have a saddle that size they want to flog, or has done a 1 day course in saddle 'fitting' ?

Or it’s a “small 17.5””? Some brands do come up small.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Or it’s a “small 17.5””? Some brands do come up small.

I'd suspect a 'small 17.5" would still be too large for a petite lady on a short coupled pony tho.
More likely a 16 or 16.5 at max needed.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

Who recommended a 17 1/2 saddle? a random member of the public or a saddle fitter? were they qualified?

 

[Cob Life]

Considering I’m the same height a size 12 I prefer a 16 1/2 seat.

 

[Widgeon]

Ooh, all the time. Maybe, if it's a Wintec? But regarding the longer question in your post, that does seem odd. I'd be quietly questioning the reasoning of the person who told you this!

 

[Cowpony]

I'm 5ft short, with short legs and I have a saddle stamped 17.5" .....BUT a saddle fitter I trust said he had measured it 3 times and each time it came up as 17" . It's also a dressage saddle with a very high cantle, so the actual seat is pretty small. But I wouldn't set out to buy a 17.5.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I'm 5ft short, with short legs and I have a saddle stamped 17.5" .....BUT a saddle fitter I trust said he had measured it 3 times and each time it came up as 17" . It's also a dressage saddle with a very high cantle, so the actual seat is pretty small. But I wouldn't set out to buy a 17.5.

Is this on a short coupled pony tho, like the OP?

 

[sbloom]

I see it ALL the time. Sure, some measure slightly smaller though that's rare, they are more likely, occasionally, to measure larger because an extended cantle has been added. People are generally in much too large saddles, especially if you're fitting to pelvic length where the most common size needed is 16.5 and that's a really open seat. Bigger seats are often recommended because they're too darned deep, and if it's smaller the pelvis gets tipped up by the cantle.

The larger the seat the further you are likely to be from the stirrup bars, so it's not the best way to solve the issue of a long femur in most cases. It's just as common for this set up to cause the rider to slide back and sit on the cantle as it is for a too-small saddle to cause a rider to sit on the cantle. A very well known biomechs person sent someone away to get a bigger saddle (18") as they were on the cantle whereas they needed a 17" and to be more over their feet and supported (customer of a good friend saddle fitter).

@Cowpony at 5' with the saddles I fit (all open seats) you'd be in a 16" or possibly 16.5" where fitting for the external size of the rider, who know if we were fitting to pelvic length....

 

[Cowpony]

Yes, I'm always saying I can fit a 16.5 or even a 16" but saddle fitters always produce 17" saddles for me. Probably because there are more of them around. The current pony is 14h and can take a 17" , so it just makes their job easier......

 

[sbloom]

Yes, I'm always saying I can fit a 16.5 or even a 16" but saddle fitters always produce 17" saddles for me. Probably because there are more of them around. The current pony is 14h and can take a 17" , so it just makes their job easier......

Yep, they don't carry stock in smaller sizes. I'm the opposite, tons of stock in 16.5, and a little either side! Compact horses need smaller saddes and short pelvises too...all depends on how the fitter approaches fitting the rider.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I have seen so many saddle for sale lately that say....17 inch used on a 13.2 or 15.5 inch used on a 15hh....and I'm over here like WTF...

 

[brighteyes]

I can’t thank you all enough for the replies. Some I have PM’d as a courtesy and with a lengthier explanation for the question.

I love HHO, mostly for the fact that on this occasion it looks like I am not going mad!

 

[brighteyes]

@sbloom @Cowpony

I have an ancient Cliff Barnsby ‘John Whitaker’ stamped 17” but measures 16 1/2” and two others at 17 1/2” which come up just over 17”. Must be the style/design and fit of the times. I also had a 16 1/2 “Jeffries Falcon Adler stamped 17”. I called Jeffries and they looked up the serial no and said ah yes, this was a compact, made to order but on a 17” tree. Or some such. It fitted me and the pony.

My question turned out not to need an answer in this case and outside the weird and wonderful adjustments and ex-spec or made-to-measure saddles, this has been a clear case of 17 1/2” = 17 1/2”

Thank you all again. Your answers will be helpful generally to others ?

 

[sbloom]

Nail heads aren't always put in the same place, it may be that those brands, or the individual maker put them further back than usual. I don't think there's a rule about how different makers do these tree-seat-footprint/panel differences. The way my makers work I have no idea how you would have a seat that measures 16.5 on a 17 tree unless the nail head is further back. It is interesting though when someone says they have a bigger seat/shorter panel combo how often it's simply an extended cantle. This keeps the panel exactly the same shape as for the original size of the tree but the nature of this alteration means the centre point of the saddle barely changes, the seat can sometimes ride SMALLER not larger (if the cantle is upright) and I only use this in jump saddles where a body protector is an issue with the placement of the cantle. It might also be useful for a pure XC saddle to allow more space when dropping down banks.

 

[conniegirl]

I can't imagine a pony especially a short backed one being able to accommodate 17.5 so that sounds a bit odd.

My Pony can take a 17.5 ideal ramsey and he isnt particularly long. However I much prefer him in a 16.5 or 17”

 

[GoldenWillow]

I'm 5'4" size 10 and fit 16.5 or 17" saddle depending on the saddle. I've had a saddler insist that a 171/2" was perfect for me as it was what they had in stock. I was swimming in it and constantly fighting against it.

 

[sbloom]

I should say that some saddles run especially tiny, but they're rare. Nearly all Fyldes run 1-2 sizes small for both horse and rider, and the Fylde Nathan especially so. I've seen an 18" which to me was like a 16.5" in any other brand.

 

[Mari]

Sometimes the size of the tree that the saddle is built on is different to the seat size. I have a 14hh short coupled pony. I had his saddle made to fit both of us. It’s on a 16” tree with a 16.5” seat. (I’m 5’ size 10)

 

[maya2008]

I’m 5ft4 and a size 8…I have never been comfortable in a 17”, happiest in 16” but ok in 16.5”. To be honest, 15.5” makes no difference either.

 

[sbloom]

Sometimes the size of the tree that the saddle is built on is different to the seat size. I have a 14hh short coupled pony. I had his saddle made to fit both of us. It’s on a 16” tree with a 16.5” seat. (I’m 5’ size 10)

Extended cantle as I mentioned above, it doesn't really make the seat 1/2" bigger unless the saddler webs and strains it differently.