When is pp NOT required for a school?

[~ Clear Light ~]

Lots of recent posts about constructing outdoor arenas. I know it varies from council to council, but in general when is planning permission not required? People have told me wood bark doesn't need pp, and I've also heard that if there's no permanent fence it doesn't,*but is this really true? Just doing some research as all I want is a 20x40 without floods, but I want a decent fibre surface and not sand, unless this also complicates things. Any advice appreciated, many thanks.

 

[Highlands]

Check your local planning but normally you always need planning permission.

 

[pogface]

Pretty sure you need planning permission for any type of school. Happy to be proved wrong though! My best friend is a planner and I have mentioned building a school a few times and she always talks about needing permission.

 

[galaxy]

A friend of mine has a wood chip school, no lights, no permanent fence. That was ALL the planners would allow!

You have to have planning for anything with permenent drainage basically. What you are allowed ontop or around is another fight.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

Thanks everyone, sounds like a mission and trying to decide if the struggle will be worth it. Yes I had a friend put in a small bark school and it hasn't worked at all :-(

 

[Orangehorse]

Any sort of engineering work would need pp. Maybe if you could do it within your garden?

Planning permission is not that scarey, although it is more expensive than in the past. So long as you are not going to annoy the neighbours and there is enough room, there shouldn't be too much trouble. What the Parish Council doesn't like is lighting - so they might put on a limit on the time when you can have it on, and any hint of commercial use.

 

[dominobrown]

I think if you use sand/wood bark etc, but don't put down a membrane /drainage/or fence you probably wouldn't need pp, but then it would be a rubbish school! Depends on how awkward your planning people are!

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

Orangehorse there is the potential to have it in the garden rather than in the field, I wasn't even sure if this was allowed?

Dominobrown haha yes that doesn't sound much better than riding on grass does it.

Thanks for you help

 

[Ranyhyn]

Loads of conflicting advice but I am sure I read if you're permanently changing the use (ie grazing -> school) then you need planning.

 

[Doris68]

Not sure, but the best bet is to ring your planning department and ask! We applied for pp as it was "change of use" of the land. We had no problems at all. Our neighbours knew what was happening and that it was for my private use only and no one could whinge in the future that they weren't kept informed. Best to do the right thing and save yourself a whole load of (potential) future problems. Good luck!

 

[foxy]

When I applied for my school, I spoke with the planning dept and they suggested looking for one's in my area that had permission and basing my application around these to reduce the number of issues that can arise. It did work as my application was passed first time and our council is notorious for rejecting applications.

 

[Singing Dawg]

You don't need planning permission to put drainage in your field.
You don't need planning permission to put woodchip/fibre/sand on your field.
You don't need permission to put fences on your field.

Build your arena, and if you have any problems, just write to them and ask the above as questions. Planners are horrid jobsworths and in the main don't know the laws but try to intimidate people by threat. It's time we all could do what we want to on our own land, provided of course it's not illegal or unsightly as nobody who cares about it wants the countryside ruined.

 

[EmmasMummy]

I looked into it here and really only thing we could do was mark out an area and dump sand down - anything more needed permission.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

You don't need planning permission to put drainage in your field.
You don't need planning permission to put woodchip/fibre/sand on your field.
You don't need permission to put fences on your field.

Build your arena, and if you have any problems, just write to them and ask the above as questions. Planners are horrid jobsworths and in the main don't know the laws but try to intimidate people by threat. It's time we all could do what we want to on our own land, provided of course it's not illegal or unsightly as nobody who cares about it wants the countryside ruined.

This is true IF the works are agricultural and on agricultural land. Which they are not when constructing a horse arena.

Equestrian works are absolutely NOT agricultural and that is why planning permission is required for the second item at the very least. Any engineering works and or import of aggregate stone/sand/other similar materials requires PP if for equestrian purposes. In addition change of use permission would probably be required for the site of the arena to equestrian from agricultural.

It may be 'unfair' but that's the rules.

 

[Polos Mum]

OP planning smoothness or otherwise is entirely dependent on the individuals you end up talking to. The council will come out (for free) and have a chat about your plans and tell you whether they will be happy or not.
If they agree with your plan - then you can draw some very basic pencil plans yourself and send them in, it'll take 2 hours max all in even if you have know idea what you're doing (exactly how I did mine) pay the fee and wait for the approval letter.

 

[PandorasJar]

I'd phone planning department. For a driveway we're looking at atm there are lots of ways round it even though we were originally told that pp was catagorically required. In truth certain brick types were exempt because of the draining etc etc. Actually very helpful people once you get chatting

 

[glamourpuss]

I honestly don't understand why people try & get around PP & call planning officers 'jobsworth'.
I have recently had to apply for a huge redevelopment (knocking down & rebuilding a farmhouse, a stable block/tack room/hay barn/wash bay/ horse box parking hardstanding & a large manège) & also exstinguishing a footpath I spoke to the council every step of the planning process. In fact I only dealt with helpful & polite people who gave advice. We had no problem at all gaining PP.

PP costs about £700 given how much building a decent manège costs surely that is worth it. Importantly if you build something which is then deemed to need PP you will have to apply retrospectively. This is far more stressful. If PP is refused at this stage you can be forced to remove the manège at your own cost.

Sounds like a risk I wouldn't want to take for the sake of a quick chat with your planning office

 

[JBP]

As far as I'm aware you can put anything you like in your garden as long is its not attached to the house and its no more the 4 metres high. If it touches house or is more the 4 metres you need pp

 

[PandorasJar]

PP costs about £700 given how much building a decent manège costs surely that is worth it. Importantly if you build something which is then deemed to need PP you will have to apply retrospectively. This is far more stressful. If PP is refused at this stage you can be forced to remove the manège at your own cost.

Sounds like a risk I wouldn't want to take for the sake of a quick chat with your planning office

Absolutely agree.

When I was a kid there was a colonel (absolutely horrible man) who decided he was above planning permission. He upset lots of people who took delight in then getting the house removed. The whole house was knocked down... what an expensive mistake... he then built it a second time expecting no-one to bother... second expensive mistake. The third time went for planning.

 

[PandorasJar]

As far as I'm aware you can put anything you like in your garden as long is its not attached to the house and its no more the 4 metres high. If it touches house or is more the 4 metres you need pp

Based on far more than that. There are certain sq m bases of different substances, drainage etc

I could have a certain permeable brick type base but not others while looking at the driveway. Certain drainage, certain clearance from road etc etc.

With a greenhouse, the base could only be a certain size.

 

[Booboos]

The only exception I know off is if you construct a hard standing area for livestock, so people on cattle farms have gotten away with labelling arenas as turn out areas for cows.

Other than that you need pp I am afraid, however it is generally granted (especially if you don't want lights). Do you have any reason to think you might not get it, e.g. conservation area?

 

[Victoria25]

If you do it without pp and they see it, they could order you to take it down … luckily my old boss built a huge ménage (she was in the middle of the moors without a neighbour in sight) some walkers told the council but it had already been there for a very long time .. they did actually agree she could keep it! x

 

[Orangehorse]

Considering the cost -even with DIY the materials are expensive - then just find out from the planning department.

Much better than to go to a lot of effort and then have to remove it because it doesn't have planning permission.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

Wow thank you so much everyone, loads of useful advice Sounds like its worth a go at least. However there are 2 other properties very close by with schools which makes me less hopeful they'll allow another one.

Booboos I can see some neighbours being a pain about it... That is the main thing putting me off. I like your advice, perhaps Charmeur and the Shetlands could pass as Highland cattle?!

 

[Booboos]

Wow thank you so much everyone, loads of useful advice Sounds like its worth a go at least. However there are 2 other properties very close by with schools which makes me less hopeful they'll allow another one.

Booboos I can see some neighbours being a pain about it... That is the main thing putting me off. I like your advice, perhaps Charmeur and the Shetlands could pass as Highland cattle?!

The neighbours is good news as it sets a precedent. They can't say yes to some and then no to others.

Oh poor Charmeur, you are a cruel owner!

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

;-) My fault for not clipping off all the fluff!