When to start teaching changes

[_jetset_]

Grace and I are starting to focus more on Novice tests now... But, when I went to watch the Carl Hester demo at Myerscough he said he teaches changes at a young age. I know Grace can do changes because when we were doing the Novice AF at Richmond, I put my outside leg on too much in the medium canter and she changed twice (in front and behind) which looked and felt great but was not what we were supposed to be doing, and she has not been taught it yet either

So, when do you think you should start teaching the changes, and how would you go about starting them off?

 

[Tempi]

Personally id ask Spencer his views today - he will be able to tell you when he thinks she is ready to start doing them.

Andrew was saying to me that he normally teaches changes before he starts doing counter canter, then forgets about them for a while until he needs to start using them again.

You need to make sure she is really strong behind in her canter and that she can go medium/collected easily, and that she can sit back enough in the canter aswell.

Also if i was you id get Spencer to sit on her and demonstrate a couple to you if he thinks shes ready, then you will get an idea of how she is meant to be doing them.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

I was going to say teach them either before the counter canter then forget them or wait till you have done the counter canter - my youngster also does them easily but occassionally in counter canter he changes if the rider moves there position slightly !! naughty pony

 

[_jetset_]

We are now on the point of having counter canter almost in the bag

At first, because she was not balanced in the canter, she would change in front on the right rein when we went into counter canter (on the left she was really good). We did lots of work on our canter, then introduced 5m loops from the track, gradually increasing them, and she is now so much better. I can keep her in counter canter around the corner and she keeps a pretty much consistent rhythm to the canter (there are some occasions when she rushes, but again, that is still a bit babyish and will hopefully improve the more balanced she becomes).

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

is say maybe wait untill the CC is fully established so she doesnt get confused !! you ahve a while before you need to do changes anyway they come at the end of elimentary dont they ?? x

 

[_jetset_]

I was hoping to do some elementary classes at the end of the year

Perhaps I had better wait a while before we attempt one of those then... She's qualified for the Area Final Novice, so I was hoping to start working her above that level and be out competing above that level by that time.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
I was hoping to do some elementary classes at the end of the year

Perhaps I had better wait a while before we attempt one of those then... She's qualified for the Area Final Novice, so I was hoping to start working her above that level and be out competing above that level by that time.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are only simple changes and are only at the higher elementarys so dont worry too much !!! she sounds lovely so im sure she will learn them easily - but wait till you are actually needing them and work on the counter canter !!!

xxxxx

 

[Tempi]

You dont have to do changes until advanced medium!!!!!!!! Not elementary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[_jetset_]

Oh... might give it a go after all then

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
You dont have to do changes until advanced medium!!!!!!!! Not elementary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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you have to do simple changes though ?? there is one in Elementary 50 after the half 10m circles in canter ?? and 48 ??

 

[Tempi]

Yes simple changes (theres simple changes in 44 aswell), but Becki was on about flying changes

 

[_jetset_]

Sorry... should have said that I suppose

Yes, simple changes I can cope with, flying ones are what I am hoping to achieve

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry... should have said that I suppose

Yes, simple changes I can cope with, flying ones are what I am hoping to achieve

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oh im all confused now

ok well if its flying ones then ages yet !!! ha ha

ignore me !!

 

[Baggybreeches]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes simple changes (theres simple changes in 44 aswell), but Becki was on about flying changes

[/ QUOTE ]
There are 3 simple changes on a serpentine in the E57!!!!!!!
I would suppose its best to teach them when they are balanced and engaged.

 

[Worried1]

There is a danger of spending so long doing counter-canter that it can then be difficult to introduce flying changes. We do flying changes sooner rather than later and then when we are sure that they have a change we then forget about them, concentrate on counter canter and then put into place the work needed for a good change before going back to them.
We intorduced changes for Blitz at the beginning of the year and recently with Diva - we left her a bit longer as her canter was weak. They both have a clean, if slightly fast change so are leaving it alone for now so we can perfect the counter canter!

 

[Weezy]

I know I do not do competitive dressage but I always teach flying changes as early as possible and it tends to pay dividends

 

[Bossanova]

I wouldnt teach changes until you are working towards the level of test where they are required. The novice horse does not need them and the canter in an ordinary horse is almost certainly not sufficient to produce a correct, balanced change. I dont think you should ride changes unless they are good changes.

 

[Partoow]

I dont teach flying changes until i have developed the counter canter and the 'straightness' of the horse and once i have a good active half pass as this can be a good way of teaching the changes out of the half pass as the taking of the shoulders over and the control of the hind quaters are a good place to start from.
With my young horses if they offer a change then i just let it go because i really do not want to 'punish' them for taking the 'wrong' canter but i do not believe for one minute they are doing changes, or that they are ready to work on them. As Boss says they must have the strength and co-ordination before they will do them with ease.

 

[Weezy]

Non dressagey person warning...

I understand the difference in a change necessary for a dressage test and what is nice for everyday work. But I still think teaching a horse to change at an early age cannot be bad. For example, out hacking we have a canter track that twists and turns, I fly change my horse around this track as well as counter canter round the turns, but I like the fact that all of my horses have been able to take the lead that I require them too. Likewise, I like my horse to have a balanced counter canter, but if I require a horse to change during an SJ session then I like to know it is there in the bag.

 

[Partoow]

non dressage person .... mmm not sure there should be a difference as for me dresage is about making any horse more trained and responsive and able to do the job whatever that job may be.
Now when i work with young showjumpers and eventers then beings as you should be straight when you actually get to a fence then i would rather have riden the corner or turn in a balanced counter canter than make a dis-united change, which is always the risk if it is not as part of the systematic development of the horse. I see this all too often.
I am sure you work on these things but it should be as the result of training and the horses development physically. Too often, and i am not saying this is you , you see people thinking that its about throwing their weight onto the opposite leg.

 

[Weezy]

Ah yes, the good old "chuck your weight over and the horse will change" .... in front maybe it will

No, I do not accept bad changes, but I will admit that even tho I end up with the movement I desire, getting there may not be "dressage" 100% of the time LOL! I am fully aware of trying to ensure the horse is engaged from behind and that a change that is made on the forehand may show a change for a stride but then the horse will, more often than not, start messing up behind, for the riding away is as important as the movement itself.

 

[machannah]

I would be very careful, esp if you are working at Novice/Elementary where they will ask for counter canter, there is a risk that if the canter is not correctly established, and nor are the aids that you will get changes when not asked for

The canter has to be very correct in tempo, rhythm, ability to lengthen, collect, straightness in order to complete correct changes, also in addition you need to be prepared yourself so that when you ask for the changes that you are giving a true and correct aid which she can learn to understand

If you havent done them before, its great to get on a proper schoolmaster and have a go, before trying on your own horse. You can then make your mistakes on one which wont mind so much, or get worried. Then when you feel ready yourself and the canter is good enough you can easily make that move with Grace - once you get them it them its a huge achievement from my point of view, one of the hardest things to get right and do well!

 

[_jetset_]

Thanks machannah... I did have some lessons on an ex-GP horse last summer, and this was the main thing we worked on so I would know the aid, when to apply it and what the change should feel like

I don't know whether it would be more successful if I sent Grace to someone who was much more experienced to learn the changes, and then she would be given a definite aid and get the idea as it would be clearer. Does that make sense?

I know she can do the changes... and like someone else has said, I didn't reprimand her for doing the full changes out of error (she has done them at home and in my AF test), I just quietly asked for her her come back to trot and reasked, or continued in the case of the AF as she changed back onto the correct lead

We can lengthen the canter, although at competitions it can be a bit hit and miss as she can sometimes get a bit tense in the arena, and the straightness has been greatly improved recently which is why her counter canter has suddenly become easy and consistent to her.

 

[Doublethyme]

Not experienced myself, but at a demo day on Saturday both Anna Ross Davies and eventer Sacha Pembles separately said that they teach changes as early as possible to prevent confusion when teaching counter canter.

Anna Ross Davies said that she felt it prevented any explosions and leaping into and out of the changes, which can happen if the horse has been taught counter canter first and gets confused.

As I say, not my level sadly, but just repeating what was said.

 

[machannah]

If they are taught early its great, however if you miss that chance and establish counter canter or are trying to it can seriously confuse them and its not worth attempting until it is very clear.

The schoolmaster route is a fab way to learn, and I would say if you are confident and have the support of someone like Spencer that you should, with assistance, be able to do this as part of your own development with Grace (plus it will be a super achievement, along with all the others you make in your progress with her)

Good luck with it tho