Where did I go wrong last time?

[Pink Gorilla]

I’ve been around horses a long time, brought in youngsters from very green and broken a few kids ponies in for friends. I would like to possibly buy an unbroken horse in the future, but feel I maybe made some blunders when trying to do so last year. What is it I’m looking for for a nice potential allrounder to possibly sell on? The warmblood I tried out last year seemed happy with me feeling all over his body and down his back legs etc. However when I asked the dealer to see him move, she said that he didn’t lunge. She said he preferred to just stand there and eat (later when I brought him home he would try to charge at me with ears pinned when lunging, so I had to lunge him off two lines for a long time to stop him coming at me). Also when she tried to loose school him so that I could see him move, he was quite lazy and unresponsive, preferring to do the bare minimum and go off to the corner to eat the grass that had started growing in the arena. He was quite pushy and bargy to handle too, but not nasty at the time when I viewed him and I put a deposit down simply because he seemed so unphased by life and I thought he would be very calm and easy to break in. He did however kick out at the vet when she gently prodded his stifle a little at the vetting a few days later. Again...being a sensitive area in horses, I didn’t think too much of it. After getting him home he proved very dominant, bad mannered and opinionated. He would plant his feet and then charge at me if I was leading him in a direction he didn’t want to go in. Even months later, after I decided to get him professionally broken in due to his attitude, he was very temperamental and had a nasty streak in him. He was very backwards thinking and stubborn. Some days he was fine, other days he would kick out at me from the ground if I asked him to move over, or buck under saddle in a very determined way if I asked for an upward transition. All vet checks etc came back fine, sent him for further training and they found the same unpredictable, stroppy attitude. So I ended up selling him, as I felt he needed someone who wasn’t in it for leisure as much as me, so didn’t get so deflated by his quirks. So how many of these red flags (refusing to lunge/free school for the dealer, being bad mannered at age 4 and kicking out at the vet etc) would you say were red flags I missed when viewing him and how many are typical of non-broken in rising 4 year olds? I guess I just assumed it was all normal behaviour for a non-broken youngster. Just trying to learn for next time, so when I view an unbroken horse in a couple of years, I don’t make the same mistakes again.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Take another horsey person with you ..one you trust..and bounce all your questions around between you and after watching seller handle then you do the same. Any doubts walk away. You may have been very unlucky..our yard has seen very novice folk buy unbroken welshies who have been really good to handle, break and ride away.

 

[Upthecreek]

I don’t think you missed any red flags, but you thought they weren’t deal breakers. Now you know different. Temperament and attitude is everything and I would not expect a well handled 4 year old with a good temperament and attitude to display any of the behaviours you described.

If I went to look at a 4 year old with a view to producing it to sell on as an all rounder I would want to see a relaxed and willing attitude. No aggression, happy to be touched all over and showing signs of submission to pressure rather than fighting against it. I would want it to like being around people and be respectful of personal space. These all make a good foundation for a horse that is likely to be easy to break in and have the right attitude and temperament needed to become a true all rounder.

 

[JackFrost]

When I chose my 2 year old fairly unhandled welshie for breaking in myself, I spent an hour or two with it on my own, then went on instinct and gut feeling. I didn't really handle it because it wasn't ready for that, but I watched it carefully and tried to get a feel for what is was made of -- IYKWIM. Horse turned out to be a gem. I think you have been unlucky. Possibly, make use of your sixth sense as well as all the others, and don't rely just on a tick box process for choosing. Being objective is good, but also ask yourself, do I like this horse and does it like me?

 

[paddi22]

I think they were fairly obvious red flags. You can tell a lot by a horses temperament by the way it reacts to being asked to do any task and that horses didn't do anything that was asked of it and just ignored the handler and did it's own thing. That horse wasn't willing to try at any task it was being asked and it's logical that its temperament turned out to be like that when you got it home. We get a lot of semi-feral ponies and horses in and you can tell very quickly what their work attitude will be. some horses just naturally are willing, they will try and figure out what you are asking them to do, even if they aren't sure, and they have open to having some kind of communication with you. I honestly think you can take an unhandled horse and by just leading it and asking it to back up you can see what personality it has, and 99 times out of a hundred that translate to their ridden attitude (barring injury or pain issues).

 

[paddy555]

I wouldn't have seen that as a nasty streak in him. I would have seen it as potential pain and would have been looking at potential PSSM2 in a 4yo warmblood. Of course there are lots of other problems that also cause pain, poor temperament and unwillingness to work and cooperate

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Im no expert but I have bought 2 young horses to back and looked for the same things in both. Both were so easy to back and became lovely ridden horses. I looked for calm curiosity and 'softness' which is hard to define but basically a willingness to co-operate, learn. I did some basic leading, asked the horse to back up a step or yield hindquartess and watch their responses. Do they want to understand. Do they want to cooperate. Are they relaxed enough to learn?

Any horse that appears shut down, spooky, indifferent to me or aggressive/ resistant I'd leave.

There are far more options available than just lunging a horse so go with different ideas and work with them at whatever level of work is appropriate. You can tell a lot from leading, backing, asking them to yield. X

 

[honetpot]

I have been very lucky over the years and bought a few youngsters that have done well. I never look for the perfect animal, I have never had that sort of budget, but for me as a working mum with no facilities' temperament an essential, over confirmation and just about anything else, and I would never buy from a dealer.
Some of the animals I have now I bought unbroken as two year olds, the oldest is now twenty four, and the thing that hasn't changed is their temperament. I try and find out what they are good at/enjoy and work on that, they obviously have same basic training but some of my bargain buys have been because the horse has been in the wrong job. Manners on the ground can be taught usually very quickly, even if something has been feral.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

The first pony I bought for myself was an 18 month old welsh gelding, about 13hhs. I had the choice of two, one turned and looked at me with a sweet expression, the other just put its ears back and looked grumpy. I bought the sweet one and never regretted it, lovely temperament and took everything in his stride. He was 23 when I lost him, that was back in 1991 and he is still the one I would have back if I could. He wasn't the best conformed pony in the world or the most comfortable ride. We did what we both enjoyed and didn't aim higher than either of us were comfortable with. This was 1969, I paid £40 for him and got £1 luck money back.

 

[maya2008]

Safest bets:
1) Buy from a breeder with a good reputation. Doesn't have to be an 'expensive' reputation, but someone who cares about their horses and gives them a good start in life.
2) Look for an open face and a kind eye. Why? You want a good temperament, but you also want a horse who isn't in pain. Horses who are in pain have a slightly more pinched, less open look about them. It's not always easy to spot the difference between temperament and pain in a viewing, but if you get one who is open and kind and friendly, with a lovely relaxed face, you're very likely to get one who is sound as well as having a good temperament.
3) For your level of experience, you don't want a 'sports' bred horse. You want something that has been bred to be a family all-rounder. It's fine to pick up a sharp youngster once you have lots of experience, but while you are getting that experience, you don't want it to come with the buttons almost genetically pre-installed. You want to install them yourself, in your own time.

 

[Jellymoon]

Safest bets:
1) Buy from a breeder with a good reputation. Doesn't have to be an 'expensive' reputation, but someone who cares about their horses and gives them a good start in life.
2) Look for an open face and a kind eye. Why? You want a good temperament, but you also want a horse who isn't in pain. Horses who are in pain have a slightly more pinched, less open look about them. It's not always easy to spot the difference between temperament and pain in a viewing, but if you get one who is open and kind and friendly, with a lovely relaxed face, you're very likely to get one who is sound as well as having a good temperament.
3) For your level of experience, you don't want a 'sports' bred horse. You want something that has been bred to be a family all-rounder. It's fine to pick up a sharp youngster once you have lots of experience, but while you are getting that experience, you don't want it to come with the buttons almost genetically pre-installed. You want to install them yourself, in your own time.

Absolutely this