Where Do You Stand When The Saddler Gets It Wrong?

[PercyMum]

As per the title really.

Had a recommended sadler out for the TB when he arrived and she has been nothing but a disaster from day one. Won't listen to how I feel in the saddle and won't listen to my horse who is very clearly saying he hates the saddles she keeps trying to get to fit him! I put my other horses saddle on him - went like a dream.

Got my old saddler down (at huge expense) who plopped a saddle on him and away we went. Happy horse, non-wobbling rider. I broached the subject of a refund with the original saddler and she said no '...because you and your horse are just being difficult and fussy '. She then said she coudlnt fit a proper fitting sadlle until he had muscled up and put on some weight (erm, you need to work your horse to put on muscle, and to do that it needs a correctly fitting saddle - or am I missing something??)

This saddle she sold me bridged, rocked and was far too tight across his shoulders (any numpty could tell that) and then she put an XW head in (for a 5yo just out of racing TB - really??) and clearly that was far too wide as it sat on his wither before I had even got on!! I tried to get her to take it back after a few weeks as it wasn't right and she said no and has kept messing about with it but it just doesnt fit at all. Its now been 5 months and I have not used it but keep getting her to take it back and she refuses. I won't even go into the storming out of the arena, suggesting that someone else ride my horse etc etc. I wouldnt put up withsuch awful customer service but I just want my money back!!!

I have tried to sell the saddle on eBay (brand new, worn twice and cost £600) but not a sniff. So I am now out of pocket and not sure what I can do about it.

Well done for getting this far - Any ideas?

 

[Theocat]

I'd contact Trading Standards for advice - the saddle isn't fit for purpose. Saddle fitting always seems to be very subjective, which I suppose is why these disputes seem to arise and don't get resolved, but at the end of the day you wanted to buy a saddle to fit your horse and allow him to work, and what she's sold you doesn't do that. The problem will be proving it, but definitely give them a call anyway.

 

[Goldenstar]

You have choices
Sell it put it down to experiance tell all your friends and any one esle you can think of the story and get on with your life .
Try to find another saddler who will write a report saying the saddle does not fit and why , write a letter to the saddler laying out all the times you have rung her and all the visits made and details of the issue and say if she does take the saddle back and give a refund you will take her to the small claims court.
If she does not give a refund either return to my first option or take her to court and see if you can win a judgement against her.

 

[hnmisty]

When I was 14 I got my second pony, Harry. He came with a showing saddle, which was no use to me. We got the local tack shop to sell it second hand, then used their "saddle fitting" service to get a new saddle fitted. They came out with a choice of three, and it was a case of "wham bam slam! There you go" (bear in mind he was an awkward shape!).

I naively thought that anyone calling themselves a saddle fitter would know what they were doing. Every time we landed after a jump, he went into bucking bronco mode, and I was lucky to have a good seat as most people would have come off. I think I stayed on mainly because I knew if I came off it would be a trip to A&E. I got my very experienced neighbour to have a look at the saddle for me. She took one look and announced it didn't fit.

I took him to pony camp in my other pony's saddle which my neighbour had a look at for me. He went like a treat, and after camp, we got the "saddlers" back out. She said he'd changed shape since she fitted the saddle, which he had- but not in the saddle they'd fitted! Eventually she accepted that, and took the saddle away.

At this point in time, she had both my saddle, and my money. Bear in mind I was 14 at the time, and a skint 14y/o at that, and it was technically my money (bar the fact my mum had bought the saddle when she bought Harry ). We're not talking mega money, but about £200 if I remember (it was a Thorogood).

Finally got the money back two months later. Was NOT impressed, would never have gone back to their business, but since they went bust soon after, that wasn't a problem.

I guess they decided that it wasn't worth risking their reputation over.

Does she have a shop?

 

[PercyMum]

I'd contact Trading Standards for advice - the saddle isn't fit for purpose. Saddle fitting always seems to be very subjective, which I suppose is why these disputes seem to arise and don't get resolved, but at the end of the day you wanted to buy a saddle to fit your horse and allow him to work, and what she's sold you doesn't do that. The problem will be proving it, but definitely give them a call anyway.

Totally appreciate the subjectiveness of it. I thought about getting another SM Saddler out to take a look and write a report? Would speaking to the SMS do anything so you think?

 

[PercyMum]

When I was 14 I got my second pony, Harry. He came with a showing saddle, which was no use to me. We got the local tack shop to sell it second hand, then used their "saddle fitting" service to get a new saddle fitted. They came out with a choice of three, and it was a case of "wham bam slam! There you go" (bear in mind he was an awkward shape!).

I naively thought that anyone calling themselves a saddle fitter would know what they were doing. Every time we landed after a jump, he went into bucking bronco mode, and I was lucky to have a good seat as most people would have come off. I think I stayed on mainly because I knew if I came off it would be a trip to A&E. I got my very experienced neighbour to have a look at the saddle for me. She took one look and announced it didn't fit.

I took him to pony camp in my other pony's saddle which my neighbour had a look at for me. He went like a treat, and after camp, we got the "saddlers" back out. She said he'd changed shape since she fitted the saddle, which he had- but not in the saddle they'd fitted! Eventually she accepted that, and took the saddle away.

At this point in time, she had both my saddle, and my money. Bear in mind I was 14 at the time, and a skint 14y/o at that, and it was technically my money (bar the fact my mum had bought the saddle when she bought Harry ). We're not talking mega money, but about £200 if I remember (it was a Thorogood).

Finally got the money back two months later. Was NOT impressed, would never have gone back to their business, but since they went bust soon after, that wasn't a problem.

I guess they decided that it wasn't worth risking their reputation over.

Does she have a shop?

Yes she does. Everyone at the yard I was at used her and everyone is now having problems. She is really argumentative and unhelpful. Problem is the horses are now at home with me and I am not sure I want her coming over to my yard

 

[Sheep]

Send a pm to googol, she had a bad experience with a saddle fitter as well so may be able to give you the benefit of her experience.

 

[Chocy]

Contact the Society of Master Saddlers if person is registered with them.
They will advise u how how to get a '2nd opinion' done in a saddle that will b needed if u make a complaint. This will hav 2 b some1 outwith your area who has not dealt with your horse before & it has 2 b some1 they recommend 2 u- can't just use whoever u want.

Think that's rite but willing 2 b corrected!!

Also do u hav templates from saddlers original visit & any subsequent visits- just 2 show change/no change in shape

Also think they have 2 take saddle back with 14 days of sale if u not happy (cooling off period?) & if they refused within that timeline they r in the wrong!

Can u guess I may b going down this line with my new saddles shortly!!!

 

[hnmisty]

Could you go stand in her shop and make a little scene? Not much of one, of course, but if she has prospective customers there she may be more willing to shut you up by doing what you want!

Edit to say: alternatively, get a different saddler to sell it for you? You might get more for it that way, even though you'll be charged commission.

 

[PercyMum]

Thanks chaps.

Might call the SMS now and ask for their guidance as you have suggested. I had the saddle more than 2 weeks before I decided it wasnt right. Problem was he was a new horse and being re-started as a riding horse so it wasnt clear what behavior was 'TB-ish' and what was 'I'm not happy'. Didnt take long to work out he was VERY unhappy with the saddle!!

 

[Chocy]

Can u update us with whatever help SMS give u incase i end up going down that line as well.

Saddle D-Day is 2mo with the fitter so wil c wot comes of that!

 

[JillA]

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 - you have the right to expect that a person supplying such a service has used reasonable care and skill in doing so. The problem with saddle fitting is proving it, and you may have to get an expert in to evidence the mistakes. Then she will say your horse has changed shape in the interim no doubt.
Citizens Advice Bureau now run the Consumer Direct Advice line - you might want to just ask their advice, ring 08454 04 05 06. Unfortunately you can have advice off them but as far as taking any action you are very much on your own, as I have found out over how my Rayburn was fitted. Maybe SMS or BHS have an advice line you can call, they would have more technical knowledge in this area?

 

[Natch]

I hope you get it sorted. I can't offer any advice I'm just curious about how a saddle can both Bridge and rock?!

 

[cremedemonthe]

Good advice from JillA, I have had to write factual reports for clients in the same boat as you and far worse.
I always encourage clients that if they have any saddle fitted, especially a new one, get the horse templated first.When I was fitting saddles, I'd automatically template and measure up horse, sign and date the template, leave a copy with the client and keep one myself, it's the best way to do it if things go wrong then iut helps to prove the claims, good luck, Oz

 

[PercyMum]

I hope you get it sorted. I can't offer any advice I'm just curious about how a saddle can both Bridge and rock?!

I would be too - unless I had experienced it!!!

Actually, maybe I am using the wrong terms... It is too tight at the withers and wehn I rise, it flaps up and down at the back (I thought this was bridging?) It also rolls side to side at the back (rocking?).

Either way, it doesnt fit and I am not a numpty and she keeps trying to fob me off. I have just spoken to the SMS and they said to write a letter using terminology from the Trading Standards.

 

[PercyMum]

You have choices
Sell it put it down to experiance tell all your friends and any one esle you can think of the story and get on with your life .
Try to find another saddler who will write a report saying the saddle does not fit and why , write a letter to the saddler laying out all the times you have rung her and all the visits made and details of the issue and say if she does take the saddle back and give a refund you will take her to the small claims court.
If she does not give a refund either return to my first option or take her to court and see if you can win a judgement against her.

Sorry - only just saw this. Agreed - tried to do the first, chalk it down to experience and continue to get my old saddler out who I have to get down form Bedford but is reliable. I have been trying to resolve the issue but did also try to sell the saddle at the same time (covering both my bases, and frankly didnt want to go through all of this) but its gone on eBay twice now and nobody is interested.

Shame because it is a lovely saddle, it just doesnt fit!!

 

[wench]

It it doesnt fit, and it's soon enough to do something about it, do it!

I have been scammed out of £1k from a saddler who sold me one that never, and would never fit my horse.

 

[Beau jangles]

Just out of curiosity where are you based ? As my sister got a saddle fitter out and she wasn't very good at her job in my opinion , just wondering if it could be the same person .

 

[sbloom]

I would be too - unless I had experienced it!!!

Actually, maybe I am using the wrong terms... It is too tight at the withers and wehn I rise, it flaps up and down at the back (I thought this was bridging?) It also rolls side to side at the back (rocking?).

Either way, it doesnt fit and I am not a numpty and she keeps trying to fob me off. I have just spoken to the SMS and they said to write a letter using terminology from the Trading Standards.

Tight at the withers, I think you already said it was too wide and tight at the very top of the panel - tight at the withers isn't very specific though everyone uses it as a term - so it will sink when you rise in the stirrups causing the saddle to rock and lift at the back. Side to side movement is rolling, and bridging is where the tree is too flat and has a gap under the saddle in the middle, and shows pressure points front and back when ridden.

What you're describing is classic - too wide, and possibly too curvy as well, definitely not bridging

 

[PercyMum]

Tight at the withers, I think you already said it was too wide and tight at the very top of the panel - tight at the withers isn't very specific though everyone uses it as a term - so it will sink when you rise in the stirrups causing the saddle to rock and lift at the back. Side to side movement is rolling, and bridging is where the tree is too flat and has a gap under the saddle in the middle, and shows pressure points front and back when ridden.

What you're describing is classic - too wide, and possibly too curvy as well, definitely not bridging

Thanks Sbloom! Sorry for not using the right terminology I don't pretend to be a saddler or know more than people who have lots of experience and trained for years. But I do know when my horse isn't happy and when I am wobbling about all over the place . My other saddler listens to how I feel, watches the horse and adjusts accordingly. This lady just told me my horse wasn't going forward enough and I'm an unbalanced rider...

... which is fine, but the sore spots on his back when I get off are not fine!

I have just phoned her again with no answer so have texted her to try and arrange a visit to have it out with her once and for all. In a nice way obviously!!

 

[coss]

I had a big problem with a saddle fitter last year - after emailing several times to no avail I went to Trading Standards with printouts from the saddler's website for reasons I believed the saddle didn't fit (website had ways to tell saddle didn't fit and they'd claimed it did fit) - emails went back and forth via trading standards until I was advised to go to small claims court. I was prepared to do so but the threat of that meant we came to an agreement and I got my money back.

 

[coss]

Thanks Sbloom! Sorry for not using the right terminology I don't pretend to be a saddler or know more than people who have lots of experience and trained for years. But I do know when my horse isn't happy and when I am wobbling about all over the place . My other saddler listens to how I feel, watches the horse and adjusts accordingly. This lady just told me my horse wasn't going forward enough and I'm an unbalanced rider...

... which is fine, but the sore spots on his back when I get off are not fine!

I have just phoned her again with no answer so have texted her to try and arrange a visit to have it out with her once and for all. In a nice way obviously!!

Emails are the best form of communication I found as they can be used legally

 

[galaxy]

Percysmum are you in Hampshire? This sounds a familiar story.....

 

[Angelz]

I've had two made to measure saddles in two years, each time I get a different saddler to come out and look at the saddle, I'm told it doesn't fit, both times it has been things not due to my horse changing shape, like this week I've been told hissed to measure is half inch past the back rib! His back hasn't shrunk but my savings has

 

[cptrayes]

Since no-one else has explained what a bridging saddle is, I will

A saddle bridges when it is sitting on the horse's back at the font and at the back, but you can slide your hand under the panel in the middle (just under the back of the flap, you can move your hand up towards the spine)..

Horses that bridge with most saddles are very difficult to fit and I had one that I had to go for air flocking because nothing else would sit on his back that I was comfortable sitting in.

 

[Orls]

Ridiculous! I don't have anything else to add that others haven't already said, just wanted to say that I know what it's like and I'm annoyed for you! I have had this happen far too many times with saddlers, fob you off and take your money. This kind of story is the exact reason I no longer trust these people and fit my own saddles.

 

[sbloom]

Thanks Sbloom! Sorry for not using the right terminology I don't pretend to be a saddler or know more than people who have lots of experience and trained for years.

Of course, and wasn't having a pop at all, it's just such a common term but doesn't actually describe the problem . If you can say whether its tight at the top of the panel or tight at the points it immediately diagnoses whether the saddle is likely to too wide or too narrow - saddle fitting isn't rocket science and I hope these "101s" are helpful

Since no-one else has explained what a bridging saddle is, I will

Erm....

...and bridging is where the tree is too flat and has a gap under the saddle in the middle, and shows pressure points front and back when ridden.

 

[Natch]

Lol! Op just think of a bridge as in a bridge over water. The front and the back touch the ground (horse) but the middle doesn't. Rocking is like an upside-down bridge, or like the ticket on a rocking horse. The front and back don't touch but the middle does and the saddle rocks.

I don't know the terms for what has happened to yours.

It's all academic as you say op, it's a saddle that clearly doesn't fit.

 

[cptrayes]

Erm....

Didn't spot that sbloom, sorry !

 

[PercyMum]

Percysmum are you in Hampshire? This sounds a familiar story.....

Yep - I am!

Thanks for all the replies. And thanks for explaining what bridging and rocking are (I didn't take it as a pop SBloom - was genuinely grateful for the info )

I stand corrected anyway - the saddle doesnt bridge OR rock. The best way I can explain it (or actually how my physio explained it the 4th time she came out to tend his sorely back!!) was that it was like an old-fashioned clothes peg over his withers and wasnt shaped to accomodate them as the shoulder widens (does that make sense??). Also, it comes forward and bashes into his shoulder as his front legs come back. He really doesnt like this; who can blame him?? SO no matter how wide or narrow it is, it won't fit. My other saddler plopped my other saddle on (bog-standard Saddle Company saddle with a dropped panel, nothing fancy) and he has been going like a dream ever since. I have since ordered exactly the same saddle and am waiting for it to arrive.

I showed original saddler the sadle he preferred and she wouldnt comment but kept saying how hers did fit. This despite the fact that when I put the sodding thing near him he was kicking out at me and literally crippled when I got off. Other saddle? No reaction and lovely soft back. And still she refuses to admit a mistake! I have trioed to call her and texted but no response. I don't want a fight, to blame or anyting. I just want my money back for a brand new, unused saddle that doesnt fit! Gah