Where to go from here...

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jokadoka

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I have a 22 year old TB who has been with me for 15 years. Over the last two to three years he has been developing a cough over winter ( out in summer, stabled at night in winter, daily turnout).
Until last March this was 'controllable' with Ventipulmin etc etc, but things got very bad very quickly out of the blue that he had to have his lungs flushed. This means having him on a drip of saline solution to administer 30 liters a day over a three day period, so 90 liters altogether to 'flush out ' the system. This is quite a common procedure over here apparently ( am in France). The procedure seemed to work and shortly after he went out for the summer. He's had an easy summer as I've had surgery so have been unable to ride, but my husband popped on him about once a week to keep him ticking over. No coughing or discharge all summer.
They came in for the first time last night. They ( him and his companion friend ) are both on shavings which I also wetted with the watering can. His hay is steamed, and his feed is very sloppy and wet. The stables are very airy.

This morning I thought I heard him cough a couple of times so my heart sank....
I have finally been given the Ok from my surgeon to ride ( walk only for now) so I took him for a 15 minute walk up the village. He did cough quite a lot and when I turned him out after he had greenish/yellowish discharge from both nostrils.
I just don't know where to go from here. Everything is a dust free as it can be and I de-cobweb the stables regularly in winter.
Turning him out full time is no option as we have clay fields and they are already very waterlogged.

Last March I thought it was going to be the end for him as he was suffering so much. The lung flush was the only and last option at that time, but as his cough has already returned after just one night in, I'm dreading how this is going to develop.
I don't want him suffering, so what to do next?

I've already contacted the vet and am awaiting a response from her.

Just wondered if anybody had any suggestions????

Am off to the Physio now but will be back on line later.

Sorry for the essay!
Thanks for reading.
 
if he is perfectly fine turned out and the problem starts when he comes in I'm afraid its a no brainer for me. Obviously I'm no expert and there could be other ways but personally i would have him out 24/7. Although my horse in on clay soil so i know how horrendous it is when it is waterlogged and can understand your worry about this. But if it is at all possible id have him out as much as possible!
 
I have to say if he were mine I'd make him a small hardstanding area outside, with a roof if you feel you must, and put him in that overnight rather than stabling him.
 
Thanks for the replies. The obvious one would be to try and turn out 24/7 but it really isn't an option. The weather gets really cold here in winter, minus 15 at night, and he's just not used to being out in it. He has never been out in winter in his life and I'm not sure how he would cope to start doing it at his age, plus I don't think standing up to his knees in wet clay soil until April will do him any favours at all. He hates it when he's out in bad weather, I've done well to keep him out this long this year as it is! There is no livestock out in the fields here at all in winter, not even sheep, because the ground is so terrible, so to have mine out during the day was a bit frowned upon by the locals when I first came here!
He has got rubber matting under the shavings so perhaps that's a starting point to remove that and take it from there. The vet is coming out tomorrow to check him over and look at his lungs closely.
I feel like I'm stuck as the only sensible option is the 24 hour turn out, but it is just not feasible....
 
Lovescobs said:
would a nebuliser or inhaler help? has your vet suggested one? my daughters pony responded to an inhaler and I've seen nebulisers as well. maybe it depends on the type of airway issue. she had a runny nose and cough. the ventipulmin didn't work on it's own.
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I had to nebulise him twice a day for three weeks and also use the inhaler on him three times a day last March which didn't make any difference nor did the Ventipulmin which is why we went down the rather drastic route of lung flushing.
I'm very worried as I'm not sure there are any other options left, and as he is already coughing after one night in...
 
One of mine, while not being as bad as your horse, cannot really cope with hay soaked or steamed but is fine on haylage, I am not sure if you can get it but that may help, even if it is expensive it will probably be far less than the vets bills.
 
Yes I have one that coughs on hay (unless dampened) but is fine on haylage.

We spent about £300 building a 15mx50m hard standing area around our stables out of rough hardcore and a good layer of road plainings on top of that. We have thick clay fields too, and the horses can't go out in winter. They spend all winter happily wandering around the hardstanding by day with haylage nets. I've left the stable doors open onto that at night too at times when one had a leg injury that swelled up if the horse stood in, it worked really well.
 
I did discuss haylage with the vet before, it's not used a lot over here. I'll ask her again tomorrow, it has to be worth a try...
Our stables are in our (smallish ) courtyard, I suppose I could re-think the carparking and secure the courtyard to such an extend that the horses could wonder in and out during the night... will take some good thinking about but also a possibility...?
 
Its definitely worth a try. We use an electric fence around the yard and chippings area to secure the turnout area, with an elastic gate, which is easy to use.
 
dianchi said:
I would see if you can make these options work for you.

Where abouts are you?
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I'm in Alsace, North Eastern France. He does already have rubber matting underneath the shavings so might be worth ditching the shavings and see how he goes.
The vet just rang, she is passing the village so will be here in 20 minutes!
Fingers crossed....
I'll discuss the various ideas and options with her and report back!
 
The coughing may be caused by Micro-Dust entering you horses respiriatory system. Micro-Dust has very little mass and will remain floating in the air for very long period of times before it settles. Unfortunately the respiratory system is unable to filter out the Micro-Dust and prevent it from reaching the lungs.
When your horse is stabled you need to ensure that all dust is removed from it's stables and any surrounding stables etc. so that it can not then be discharged in to the air. This means sweeping down/vacuuming all ledges and walls at least once a week. Also always feed hay which has been soaked in clean water for at least one hour.
 
I'd definitely be thinking of building an outdoor type stable if you need to. Or could you not just try having him out 24/7? He might surprise you and cope well with it.

My boy is 15 and got bronchitis over the summer, a few months after it cleared up he was stabled for a week due to bad weather and he started coughing again - I tried all the usual hay soaking etc - then I stuck him back out in the field 24/7 when the weather cleared up and the coughing disappeared instantly. He is now going to live out 24/7.

He has always been a complete ponce of a horse, shivers in the summer rain, won't step in mud or puddles etc but he is loving being out and isn't hanging around the gate area looking miserable like he did before.

He's an Arab so I have his super heavy weight rug on standby for when the snow comes, but I'm going to try and be brave enough to keep him out all year, unless he is showing signs of desperately wanting in and I cave!!
 
Have you tried him without stable mats? Unless you wash them out/under them everyday, the build up of urine secretes a lot of ammonia which is harmful to anything that breathes it in.
 
Have you tried Wynergy ventilate on him .
I tried with a horse I had that coughed badly , it was a I have tried every thing what's the cost of a tub of supplement on top of everything else I have tried.
The result was a amazing he went from a horse that had the vets shaking their heads to having no cough unless he travelled .
On him the affect was stunning .
I certainly would not expect a TB at 22 living in a cold area to learn to live outside 24/7
 
Well, vet's been. Good news, it is NOT his old problem, but apparently an 'ordinary infection', plenty of them about at the moment, even on horses living out 24-7!
she's taken bloods, to pinpoint how best to treat. Should know more tomorrow.
Am feeling VERY relieved!!
I did wonder about the rubber matting and the fact that urine can't always seep away completely, will have a think about that one!
also, yes, the stables are very well ventilated. We designed and built them ourselves and took everything into consideration.

Goldenstar, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking my boy is a bit long in the tooth to start learning to live out in this climate!
Also, he is on a daily dose of NAF respirator, but I have only just started that a week ago in preparation of him coming in.
Thanks everybody for the advise and tips, hopefully we'll be sorted soon.
I will still look into turning my courtyard into an outside area for them to have access to from their stables too.
Onwards and upwards!!
 
Cardboard bedding has to be the least dusty bedding I have come by. All shaving seem to have a tiny amount of dust. And seem to get dusty as time goes on. I would want some bedding to soak up the wet. The amonia I feel can cause problems to. So id rather it soaked up and removed than no bed but seeping under mats?
 
Be Positive and Honey08,
How did you find out the coughing was down to the hay, was it by process of elimination questionmark ( sorry questionmarkkey has given up, again...)
 
jokadoka said:
Be Positive and Honey08,
How did you find out the coughing was down to the hay, was it by process of elimination questionmark ( sorry questionmarkkey has given up, again...)
Click to expand...

Once I changed it became obvious how much difference it made, a few years later I tried hay again, well soaked, and he had a bad attack once again, within days he was wheezing and looking poorly, mine can get away with hay in the field on the odd occasion but on a regular basis I always use haylage and never hear a cough from him now.
With mine it seems to be what he eats rather than the stable, he can be on straw with less problems than eating hay although he is best on a dust free bedding and mats, I think eating hay must irritate the airways however clean the hay is, mine also struggles if he has too much hifi.
 
OP, glad you found something new, hope the vet cures it. I was never saying chuck an old horse out in a field either - just to make a turnout area around the stable so he could access both..

Yes, I found out just by swoping. In summer we have to use hay as I only have two horses that come in for about six hours a day, so we can't ge through the haylage quickly enough, so I have to dampen the hay, which also works for my mare. In winter we swop to haylage as they're on a winter turnout by day on haylage and stables by night, so we use a lot more haylage..
 
i hate to say and i really hope this is not what it comes to and i understand how hard it is...

if he is really suffering tha much and the flush thingy is a last resort and he is quite old, would it not be kinder than to have him suffer all winter... i am sure this is not what you want but that flushing thing does not sound pleasant...perhaps you should consider pts?

i'm not saying it is what you should do, i'm just saying you should think about it. he has clearly had a very lving home for 15 years with you and i really hopw everything qorks out...hugs
 
jokadoka said:
Well, vet's been. Good news, it is NOT his old problem, but apparently an 'ordinary infection', plenty of them about at the moment, even on horses living out 24-7!
she's taken bloods, to pinpoint how best to treat. Should know more tomorrow.
Am feeling VERY relieved!!
I did wonder about the rubber matting and the fact that urine can't always seep away completely, will have a think about that one!
also, yes, the stables are very well ventilated. We designed and built them ourselves and took everything into consideration.



Goldenstar, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking my boy is a bit long in the tooth to start learning to live out in this climate!
Also, he is on a daily dose of NAF respirator, but I have only just started that a week ago in preparation of him coming in.
Thanks everybody for the advise and tips, hopefully we'll be sorted soon.
I will still look into turning my courtyard into an outside area for them to have access to from their stables too.
Onwards and upwards!!
Click to expand...

brilliant glad you are gonna be able to sort it
 
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