Where to start with investigations,ovaries ,ulcers or others.

[debsflo]

Hi all ,could do with a bit of help in making a plan please.
My 6 year old ISH mare has previously had hormonal issues ie very spooky esp on the ground when in season and has got loose on a few occasions in the 18 months ive had her.
For the most part is a nice sensible easy going mare.
Back in March she was highly irritable ,fractious etc and i got the vet and was found to have an enlarged follicle so that was treated and she improved.
She has been on a supplement since first Oestruss and now Hack up.
June we had similar issues very irritable ,trying to bite and kicking her stable walls,unhappy near flanks etc ,rescanned ovaries as that was our first thought but all ok ,however had some sharp edges on teeth even though she had only had them done 3 months earlier.
To be sure i got them sorted and again behaviour improved.
Roll on to a couple of weeks ago.
We have had a nice summer ,went to camp ,hacking out etc ,no major issues.
On the Monday changed grazing to winter paddocks with lots of grass and has to walk past geldings.
Always wants to eat but since moving has been hurtling round the field ,will settle after a while ,not been eating hay but thought that was because she was full ,poohs very loose ,very irritable ,fractious ,trying to bite the door ,her neighbour ,me ,kicking the walls etc ,all signs of discomfort and unhappiness but on day 3 spooked coming in and got away from me ,completely out of the blue and culminated in jumping a fence.
No obvious injury but behaviour worsened and very reactive to her back after that
I have had the vet out twice in last 2 weeks ,initially super reactive to her back ,so they thought she had pulled it jumping out over fence and despite my concern about the original cause of this were reluctant to scan her ovaries as i wanted but advised field rest and pain relief. and review after 10 days.
The next day she was awful leading out to the field again not normal so we decided to keep her on box rest for 5 days with pain relief and she was much happier.
Vet reviewed again and still reactive but not as bad but couldnt pin point where and again advised turnout and agreed to consider rescanning ovaries and scope for ulcers and consider other investigations if no better this week.
Having read lots my gut feeling is ulcers or hormonal issues as the root cause but am not sure where to start.
I get a reaction from some of the ulcer points but feel the back issue can be related to a few things.
I am obviously not riding at present and have resorted to leading her in a bridle as she was in a Dually but this was not helping to stop her.
She is def not right but i dont feel i am being taken seriously.
I will also get saddle rechecked etc.
Any thoughts please as to proceeding,currently stopped pain relief ,on hack up digest detox calm and a gastroplus for last few days and pooh is firmer and more settled in field
Apologies for essay.

 

[LaurenBay]

Is she insured?

I would get her bloods run first, they can tell her Hormone level by this. If this is clear then I would ask for her to be scoped.

 

[rara007]

Ask your vet to prioritise?

 

[Rasadi]

I would run bloods first to check hormone levels, my mare was acting very strangely last year, I put it down to stopping work, she was going off to stud got worse turned out she had a tumor on her ovary which was removed now back to normal and had her first proper season last week so fingers crossed for being covered in the spring!

 

[Leo Walker]

I'd get Tom Beech or Rob Jackson out for the back issue, then I would ask the vets to look at ovaries then ulcers. No point treating ulcers until you find the underlying cause.

 

[debsflo]

I wonder why we didnt do bloods.
Yes am ringing vets tomorrow after speaking to my physio who thinks it sounds hormonal and advised vet to review.
Im keen to get to the root cause,checked her tonight after pain relief stopped and very reactive around her girth area trying to bite and wouldnt let me do too much prodding ,not like her at all.
I just think the back issue is secondary to the root cause but could be wrong.

 

[debsflo]

Ask your vet to prioritise?

This is partly the issue ,theyve seen her twice and not really advised/

 

[Britestar]

Friend had similar problems, used Regumate, ok for a year or so, then back to behaviour.

This year, had ovaries removed - bingo, lovely horse

 

[SEL]

They should really run some blood tests for you. My mare gets inflammation markers showing up in her bloods when her stomach plays up. Ulcer issues tend to be secondary to pain elsewhere and some mares really do struggle with theirs seasons.

 

[Wish I was younger..]

Sounds very much like hindgut ulcers to me! Especially the sore back bit. Ties in with switching fields, sugary grass, same in March etc. 2nd Tom beech, he is great, he will probably suggest the same and will be able to help with ovary issues too.

 

[crabbymare]

If you are having the vet out to scope for ulcers why not have them do a quick scan of the ovaries at the same time? Cost is around £35? so if you are already paying for a visit or taking the horse to the vet its worth th few minutes to rule out an anovulatory folicle or something else that could cause pain.

 

[debsflo]

Thank you I'm glad it sounds like I'm thinking on the right lines.
Will speak to the vet and hopefully discuss bloods and to sedate and do scan and scope.
I agree ulcers are often secondary and she definitely has difficult season's esp the first one so this may be similar.
Interesting about the grass esp as its felt like she's had a total personality change since the day she moved fields in every way.
Could this have caused stomach and behaviour issues if it is ulcers?
Doing lots of reading and all a bit new to me.
At the moment she doesn't really want to be touched anywhere round her barrel.
Was off her hay but now eating again and still looks unhappy and not herself.
She is insured.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

This is very unlikely but I ll toss it in for consideration.. my previous mare developed a stomach emptying problem - went off food for a while then ate again, wasn't herself and eventually she went to the vet school for investigations. They found the stomach grossly enlarged...stuffed with hay and grass - couldn't get the camera in....her internal organs were displaced. I think I would ask the vets for an absolute complete investigation of internals. I hope you get to the root of the problem soon...its such a worry.

 

[debsflo]

Thank you
Hopefully vet back Thursday for more investigations.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Am following this with great interest as have a mare with sinilar issues especially the kicking out and touchiness....she has been xrayed and found to have bone spavin in both hiocks. Next step scoping and think maybe ovaries should be checked then too...

 

[debsflo]

Spoken to vet and we are staring with ulcers and ovaries .
I have owned her for 18 months and she was very weak behind so a little part of me worries it could be a hind end .hock issue.
She is a horse that doesn't tolerate pain and the last time when it was her tooth it was a slight edge that once sorted resolved her issues and I wasn't sure about getting it looked at because they hadn't been done long.
Vet will do these first then we will investigate other areas ie back although not sure how ie x ray or scan.
She is less reactive on her back but still quite foul to handle and irritable being touched.
Feel like I have a bit of a plan to start though now.

 

[debsflo]

Am following this with great interest as have a mare with sinilar issues especially the kicking out and touchiness....she has been xrayed and found to have bone spavin in both hiocks. Next step scoping and think maybe ovaries should be checked then too...

That's interesting.
What are they going to do re hocks ?

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Have only been offered bute as pony has had laminitis so not safe to have steroid injections. But needs scope first. Budget wont stretch to scope at the moment but pony quite contented and looking well and not working in winter so will do when budget allows.

 

[Notimetoride]

Mine had similar issues. Had ovaries scanned - they were fine but due to hormonal behaviour, she's now on regumate. She still had 'episodes' though, so had her scoped and she had incredibly painful and bleeding grade 3 ulcers! No wonder she was playing up. Been an ongoing battle with them, and I've researched it to death. She's had several periods on gastrogard and sufalcrate, is on a strict ulcer friendly diet (Agrobs), always always fed before she's ridden, fed corn oil and vit e, has gastrogard when we compete, and try very hard to keep her stress levels down. For the rest of her life she will be on a v strict ulcer friendly regime.

 

[debsflo]

AN UPDATE
Had vet out for third time and we agreed to scan ovaries which were fine then scope for jlcers although ghe thought unlikely.
My poor mare has lots of grade 2 and 3 ulcers which are significant.
Likely to have been irritated by change in grass and all ties in with massive personality change and pain behaviour.
Also why she's rushinggoing in and out of gates as worse on right side.
She will have been in a lot of discomfort.
In a way I'm hugely relieved and glad I persisted.
She's starting a month of gastroguard then re scoping.
Adlib hay then will start a supplement.
I could cry .

 

[ester]

At least you have some answer, given how frequently they occur with another underlying physical issue I would consider a lameness check up too.