Where would you go from here? (Poorly horse)

[Illusion100]

Your friend could try neem oil. Slather it on, doesn't sting even on raw flesh. Very effective. Wear gloves though, as the smell is awful.

Funny enough, I think Neem oil has been tried.....but my memory is useless and often lies to me!

Will have to check but I think every lotion, potion and supplement has been exhausted, if not maybe Neem may do the trick. Thanks.

 

[Orca]

Thank you, would you mind posting me a link for the CPL as I don't think I'm on the right track with the Communist Party of Lithuania......

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Here you go. The 3rd paragraph down under the heading 'Research' might be of particular interest in identifying CPL...

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/chronic-progressive-lymphoedema-leads-to-mld-equine-therapy-study/

 

[Pearlsasinger]

My Draft mare came to me just after a Dectomax injection but it was obvious that she had had problems for most, if not all, of her life. She has dreadul scarring round her fetocks and further up her legs.
After a variety of treatments which all appeared to improve the situation but never stopped the itching/sores completely. I thought I had finally cured it when I took all wheat/feed out of her diet. Then I felt that after being on a diet all the time that she had been here, she needed something to help her to maintain her weight, so we started feeding her soaked grassnuts, just as we have fed others. This coincided with a sore eye, which needed vet meds. Her dermatitis flared up again and I blamed the meds but it now seems that the grassnuts have caused it. She is now off the grassnuts and looks and feels much better.
We have had 2 horses become very footy on NAF PinkPowder/haylage balancer and all sorts of trouble with various supplements, so we are very wary of them these days.
So if I were your friend, I would stop all feed, except hay, no supplements, nuts, chaff or treats. I would monitor her carefully for a month but of course, if there is no improvement, call the vet.

 

[Illusion100]

��

Here you go. The 3rd paragraph down under the heading 'Research' might be of particular interest in identifying CPL...

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/chronic-progressive-lymphoedema-leads-to-mld-equine-therapy-study/

Thanks, Politics isn't my thang!

 

[Illusion100]

My Draft mare came to me just after a Dectomax injection but it was obvious that she had had problems for most, if not all, of her life. She has dreadul scarring round her fetocks and further up her legs.
After a variety of treatments which all appeared to improve the situation but never stopped the itching/sores completely. I thought I had finally cured it when I took all wheat/feed out of her diet. Then I felt that after being on a diet all the time that she had been here, she needed something to help her to maintain her weight, so we started feeding her soaked grassnuts, just as we have fed others. This coincided with a sore eye, which needed vet meds. Her dermatitis flared up again and I blamed the meds but it now seems that the grassnuts have caused it. She is now off the grassnuts and looks and feels much better.
We have had 2 horses become very footy on NAF PinkPowder/haylage balancer and all sorts of trouble with various supplements, so we are very wary of them these days.
So if I were your friend, I would stop all feed, except hay, no supplements, nuts, chaff or treats. I would monitor her carefully for a month but of course, if there is no improvement, call the vet.

Thank you, very interesting.

Horse is now off any feed/supplements only eating grass and supplementary hay. Also came across some concerning reactions to grass nuts, including an allergic reaction in my own horse. He came out in welts. Evil grass nuts.......

 

[Illusion100]

Update.

Vet was out yesterday. Horse now on complete box rest until middle of next week with soaked hay and a small feed to give bute to rule out lami, then I think the pastern dermatitis will be investigated and bloods run.

 

[Cobbytype]

My coloured maxi cob/drum horse had Chronic Progressive Lymphoedema. It's an auto immune disorder and as someone else said, there's no cure, but it can be managed in some cases. The typical symptoms look a little like mud fever, scratches, mallenders etc. My boy was mis-diagnosed with mite infestation, but a few years later CPL was recognised as a fairly common disorder in draft/heavy horses and the vet realised that's what my boy had.

There is always swelling with CPL, which distinguishes it from some other, milder disorders. The horse's immune system over reacts to a small scratch or bite and fills the limb(s) with lymphatic fluid, which in turn stretches the skin. Over time the skin loses elasticity and it often has folds around the pasterns and sometimes nodules. It can go unnoticed for a long time with heavily feathered horses. The onset is from a young age and it can progress, or like my boy's it can remain fairly stable. Keeping the horse moving (just walking is fine) is important to help with the lymphatic drainage (but I stabled my boy at night without ill effect, as keeping his legs clean and dry seemed to help a lot). Because the skin is stretched, it needs to be lightly moisturised to prevent cracking (just like eczema in humans) - the Flamazine potion did this. I also used Eucerin 10% urea lotion every other day, which is an eczema lotion (I used the Flamazine potion for flare ups only and would get through 3 or 4 pots a year). I tried an oatmeal based eczema treatment lotion, but it made the condition worse. It's a matter of finding what suits. Pig oil and sulphur blistered my boy, but some people have success with this. I did try a supplement too (I cannot remember what it was) - there was some talk of CPL being caused by a deficiency in the trace element I used, but it made no difference, so I didn't continue with it. Gently does it is the best way forward; no scrubbing or harsh treatments. Wet the legs only when absolutely necessary - it's better to brush off mud when it's dry and just wash any bits that remain dirty, then pat dry with a clean towel (I had a stock of terry nappies which were put on a boil wash after use).

If you Google CPL you will find lots of dismal information. However, my boy's condition was stable and it didn't affect his movement. The sores were treated with a potion the vet made with a base of Flamazine to which was added synulox antibiotic and a steroid. At £50 a pot it wasn't cheap, but it helped a lot in treating the sores and itching. Lymphatic drainage can be very helpful but my boy wouldn't tolerate it for very long. Support stockings can be used, but the horse has to wear them all the time - if they are removed the swelling comes back. I didn't consider this option because my horse's movement wasn't restricted by the CPL and mostly because I'm on clay land here and I wouldn't have been able to keep the stockings dry or clean. Clipping was more trouble than it was worth (it's painful for them), so I used to trim his feathers with Fiskars GP scissors (4 pairs a year). It was a labour of love, but worth it to keep his legs clean and dry. I'd do about 10 - 15 minutes each day for a week, then rinse and repeat every few weeks when the hair grew back. It takes time to gain their trust, but I got to the point where I could sit between his legs and snip away at the nooks and crannies without losing teeth, although I had a few near misses

Sadly I lost my horse last year to an unrelated illness (polyneuritis equi), so I can't tell you the very long term prognosis for CPL, however my boy had CPL for around 12 years or more and once I'd found a treatment that suited him, it wasn't a huge problem. It took a couple of years to get him to trust me enough to treat his sores (the pig oil and sulphur and other ineffective treatments left lasting memories!), but I'd just rub the Eucerin between my palms and sweep it down his legs in a soft hugging movement, then if he felt like it, I'd do a few upward sweeps to help with the lymphatic drainage. He grew to quite enjoy the massage on his front legs, especially his 'puffy ankles' but he wouldn't let me do his back legs much at all.

Hope this helps. Good luck in finding a cause and a cure for whatever the problem is.

 

[merlin12]

Laminitis? It does n't always present as the text books say.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Owner really tries hard to keep it managed, it was really horrendous initially and still not resolved. I honestly thought now it has improved so much the horse would appear better, clearly not. You don't happen to know of any treatment that is advised as Owner not having complete success with anything from Vet?

However, I think the horse may have multiple issues that are related/antagonising one another. Just not sure where to begin! Thanks for wishes, will pass onto Owner to cheer them up a bit.

hi from experience you need to treat this from two sides, i use broad vitamin supplement, brewers yeast, linseed and rose hips in a feed once a day. this enables all the immune system to have all the requirements for functioning correctly.

The other prong of attack is a using an iodine solution/surgical scrub and then a homemade potion, udder cream with a small amount of sulfur so it goes an off white think one of those paint colours with a hint of.........once a day to start with a place soaked kitchen roll in the iodine solution on the site of inflammation leave for about 10-20 min and then pop on the homemade potion.

this works because the iodine and sulfur will effect the infectious organism whether it is bacterial or yeast or fungal. also you will not be selecting for resistance, unlike using an antibiotic which is only effective on a specific bacterial populations.

with these types of inflammation disease it is important to remove the triggers for the inflammation ie excess bacteria etc

you need to keep the circulation moving so box rest might be counter productive unless due to weather conditions you are in a swamp like most of the country at the moment

 

[_HP_]

A few days box rest won't necessarily rule out Laminitis especially if he is on painkillers and if he has any rotation then he'll not come sound until it is corrected using xrays for diagnosis and a correct , regular trim.

 

[Illusion100]

Update time.

Thanks for the information and experiences in the interim, very interesting.

Sorry about your boy Cobbytype.

hollyandivy123, I've recommended udder cream mixed with flower of sulphur, I tend to mix it to a pale buttermilk colour.

_HP_ Horse was x-rayed recently. Feet looked great.

Vet believed slight improvement yesterday. Horse to remain on box rest until next fri. Then bloods will be taken for EMS.

Horse still acting abnormally in general handling and kicking feet away on all four when picked up.

No interest shown by Vet to examine pastern dermatitis any further at this stage.

 

[Cobbytype]

Glad to hear the x-rays were good, but sorry to hear you're no further along with a diagnosis.

Time will tell I guess, as one by one you discount various causes...

All the best.