Which Dressage Instructor?

Ample Prosecco

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Obviously without seeing lessons or knowing the people, it is hard for anyone to advise, but I was just wondering if people had any thoughts. I am struggling to know who to use consistently for dressage lessons. I don't want to keep instructor hopping but equally I don't want to commit to lessons long term with the wrong person! There are 3 instructors who come to our yard weekly and I have had lessons with all of them at one time or another but am not sure who to stick with. Or if I actually should go off site for lessons. Though that is obviously far less convenient.

Alongside the regular instruction, I have just started using a biomechanics trainer who I think is brilliant. I plan to have a session once a month with her too. She focuses on me not the horse, but Toby went beautifully in a lesson with her.

Instructor 1:
The most popular dressage instructor on the yard. Events at Novice, with mid 20s dressage. Has some students doing well including instructor 2. My best lessons have been with her. But also my worst! She seems very good at tweaking little things early in a lesson to address something and then the rest of the lesson feels great. Eg outside flexion to straighten him, or small circles/leg yields to get him off the inside leg. Or turns on forehand to activate back end. I cannot feel what needs doing so I can't replicate those tweaks in schooling. I can do all the exercises but it's the knowing what to do when that I struggle with. She gives totally contradictory instructions from one week to the next which I am sure are always for good reasons but she is not good at explaining why. Eg 'slow him down he needs to find his own balance, then once in balance ask for more trot' versus 'more leg, more leg, move him forward, he needs to be more forward' during the warm up. So some warm ups he is barely in trot at all and others he is 4 times faster! Or 'soft hand, forward hand, let his neck out' versus 'more hand, leg into hand, whatever pressure you feel in the rein, double it!' when I start to pick up a contact. Several other people have stopped having lessons with her because she contradicts herself all the time so people are left having no idea how to practice in between lessons. She can occasionally be rude and can seem to get cross with the horses and students. She is very popular but equally quite a few people have stopped using her because of her rudeness and a few people have ended lessons in/near tears. She wants me to put Toby in draw reins.

Instructor 2
Events at Novice. Low 30s dressage. I have started having jumping lessons with her recently and she does lot of flat with me before we start jumping and I do like how she teaches flat. A few people, disgruntled with Instructor 1 have switched to her and recommend her though I am not aware of any results yet. A good friend with a sharp youngster has gone from a spooky nightmare every lesson to calm and focused in about a month. She has transformed Katie's jumping by working on the flat with her and Dolly. But even though I like her manner and style, Toby has never gone particularly well in a lesson with her. But she is focusing very much on me. She says she has felt I needed to go back to basics even in the Amber days so though Amber and I did ok together, I was a bit of a passenger on her. She says I am not far off being a much better rider, but some fundementals need to be in place first. I agree with all that so it is tempting to think she can be the one to teach them to me, but she does not really have a track record teaching dressage and I have not made much progress in the few lessons I have had with her. She does not advise draw reins, saying he needs a softer, gentler, slower approach.

Both instructors 1&2 really like Toby and think he has loads of potential.

Instructor 3
Events at Novice. Low-mid 30s dressage. PC senior instructor with lots of pupils doing well eg qualifying for Badminton grass roots. Not had any flat with her but wondered if she is worth a try. I used to have jumping lessons with her on Amber and initially on Toby. I liked the way she taught and I felt we made progress in that I went from popping round 60s on Amber to eventing her at BE90. She doesn't rate Toby and even though that should not really matter, it does to me. She thinks he's a sweet RC horse but nothing special and I'd be better off taking advantage of the crazy market and moving him to on for a 'better' horse. Which really puts me off having lessons with her at the moment as I like my instructors to believe in us! Katie has stopped her jumping lessons with her because she feels she is learning more from instructor 2. But two friends have recently switched from instructor 1 to instructor 3 for their flatwork and are both going better than I've ever seen them, getting low 20s dressage now on quite tricky horses which is a massive improvement in quite a short space of time. She is not a fan of me using draw reins.

Any thoughts?
 

Roxylola

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Your biomechanics instructor is also a good competitive dressage rider and does good "straight" dressage lessons. Just because you've only focused on you so far she'd still be in the mix for me, and actually high on my list.
Honestly though, none of the 3 you've listed would be my choice. I'd want an actual dressage instructor. Novice tests arent especially difficult it's only about novice/elementary dressage.
Of the 3 you have discussed, I'd say if you're happy with your jump instructor use them though
 

Ample Prosecco

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The one that makes you buzz after the lesson. Where you want to talk about the lesson, what you did and can't wait for the next one.
You need the one that clicks, and if its none of those, find another.

I understand what you mean but I think I need to be more analytical. Instructor 3 is my 'buzzing afterwards' instructor because she is really positive and encouraging, she makes me believe in myself and so we do things I did not think I could. But I think I need more than a cheer leader. Instructor 2 makes me feel like a total beginner because she is changing everthing but maybe I need that period of unlearning/relearning even though it is not exactly fun!
 

oldie48

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TBH if you are unsure I don't think any of them are right, why not go for a pure dressage rider but you may need to try a few. I know lots of people on here will throw their hands in in horror over using draw reins, they wouldn't be a big no no for me but it would depend on why and how they were being used as I've seen them used very successfully with particularly difficult horses in certain circumstances but for Toby??
 

Fluffypiglet

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From what you've said, number 2. I don't like gadgets and I really struggle with inconsistency so number 1 definite no. Number 3 would be a no as well if she doesn't like your horse where it affects her teaching you (or your comfort with her). Someone I used to know and have lessons with really didn't rate my horse and I still struggle now if someone says he's lovely because it really did sink in and make me doubt my judgement. Luckily I have limited aspirations so she can stick her opinion and I'll work with people who appreciate and understand both of us.
I moved yards and found someone entirely new and tbh it doesn't sound like any of those three are a great fit for you.
 

Roxylola

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Just to add, my instructor trains herself with Carl, is very reasonable and definitely travels to cheshire to teach, I bumped in to her when she was teaching at somerford recently. She'd be worth asking at least
 

Ample Prosecco

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Your biomechanics instructor is also a good competitive dressage rider and does good "straight" dressage lessons. Just because you've only focused on you so far she'd still be in the mix for me, and actually high on my list.
Honestly though, none of the 3 you've listed would be my choice. I'd want an actual dressage instructor. Novice tests arent especially difficult it's only about novice/elementary dressage.
Of the 3 you have discussed, I'd say if you're happy with your jump instructor use them though

I'd have her every week if I could but don't have the numbers for her to come to us more than once a month.
 

ihatework

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I think you need to get yourself off site to a dressage instructor.

Livery yard / Pony Club/ Riding Club politics/fashions aren’t always helpful.

If the biomechanics is going well and they are dressage orientated then go there. Or given you are having schoolmaster lessons at Ingestre it might be worth having some lessons on Toby there
 

Britestar

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I understand what you mean but I think I need to be more analytical. Instructor 3 is my 'buzzing afterwards' instructor because she is really positive and encouraging, she makes me believe in myself and so we do things I did not think I could. But I think I need more than a cheer leader. Instructor 2 makes me feel like a total beginner because she is changing everthing but maybe I need that period of unlearning/relearning even though it is not exactly fun!

I mean buzzing as in the horse went well, tackled something you didn't think he could do or similar. I'm not worried about compliments for me.
 

Ample Prosecco

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From what you've said, number 2. I don't like gadgets and I really struggle with inconsistency so number 1 definite no. Number 3 would be a no as well if she doesn't like your horse where it affects her teaching you (or your comfort with her). Someone I used to know and have lessons with really didn't rate my horse and I still struggle now if someone says he's lovely because it really did sink in and make me doubt my judgement. Luckily I have limited aspirations so she can stick her opinion and I'll work with people who appreciate and understand both of us.
I moved yards and found someone entirely new and tbh it doesn't sound like any of those three are a great fit for you.

To be fair to Instructor 3, I did ask her what she thought of his potential when I first got him. She did not just offer an unsolicited opinion. I appreciated her honesty, though I don't necessarily agree with her assessment of him.
 

Ample Prosecco

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Hi I am in Buxton Derbyhsire. I am lorryless (arggghhhh) for now as can't get an MOT booked in! So limited for thr moment but will be out and about again soon I hope. But weekday lessons need to fit in round work. A 45 minute lesson on my yard takes about an hour out of my day. Just fetching in, tacking and untacking. Going somewhere means loading the lorry, loading the horse, unloading stuff and horse, travelling, leaving spare time for holdups, cleaning the lorry afterwards. Even just a 30 minute journey means being off the yard about 3 hours! Finding someone to come to me is ideal but most people want a group to teach not individuals to make the travelling worth their while.
 

ycbm

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Mine. Competes at GP. Has trained National Team GP pony riders. Full of enthusiasm, leaves me inspired (as well as knackered :) ) at the end of every lesson. Is no more than 40 minutes away from you, with a super indoor so not weather dependant. £50 a session, worth every penny.

My eyes nearly fell out of my head on springs like a cartoon at the idea of putting Toby in draw reins!
.
 

Foxglove

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I am another one who thinks none of the 3 suggested sound ideal. If you want to improve your flatwork and ultimately your dressage scores them really you need to go to someone who focuses purely on dressage.

There are instructors who are good at getting people from scratch to the beginnings of competition but I find you quite often need to move on when you want to move up

From what I’ve read, I’m afraid I am generally a lurker (!) you’ve got a really lovely uncomplicated young horse and a huge appetite to learn yourself - don’t sell yourself short with average instructors!

I also think it’s really important that the person teaching wants to see you do well and generally likes the horse they are teaching. That way they want to see you improve and do well.
 

Goldenstar

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I don’t like trainers who lack structure and who are not clearly teaching within a system so for me I would not go to 1 .
I probably would pick 3 but the think about her not getting the horse would bother me .
 

j1ffy

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Like you, I prefer an instructor who believes in both me and the horse. However Indio wasn't everyone's cup of tea and I don't think the trainer I liked best had a lot of time for him BUT she didn't let that limit how she trained us and he went better under her training than anyone else. So if instructor 3 ticks all the boxes otherwise then I'd go with her.

Having said that, it doesn't sound like any of them leave you with 'homework' that you can do alone or have a lot of dressage experience. I'd be tempted to consider a more dressage-focused trainer who can set flatwork heights higher than Novice BE and are likely to have more in their toolkit. A good trainer should leave you with exercises you can work on alone, so you shouldn't need a lesson every week particularly if you are doing a mix of flat, jumping, hunting and therefore not doing a lot of dedicated flat schooling sessions weekly anyway.
 

eggs

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I would try and find a 'pure' dressage instructor rather than ones that do a bit of dressage for their eventing.

The best instructors in my opinion are the ones that teach you to be able to improve your horse - or at least be able to ride him/her as well when you are on your own as you do in the lesson.
 

J&S

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If one of the three was really right for you and your horse you would know which one it was!! The biomechanics trainer will automatically help you improve your horse by improving your position.
 

DressageCob

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Mine. Competes at GP. Has trained National Team GP pony riders. Full of enthusiasm, leaves me inspired (as well as knackered :) ) at the end of every lesson. Is no more than 40 minutes away from you, with a super indoor so not weather dependant. £50 a session, worth every penny.

My eyes nearly fell out of my head on springs like a cartoon at the idea of putting Toby in draw reins!
.

That sounds great! Any chance you could send me details?
 

Ample Prosecco

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If one of the three was really right for you and your horse you would know which one it was!! The biomechanics trainer will automatically help you improve your horse by improving your position.

True. I used to have an instructor who trained her own horses up to PSG and was trained by Carl Hester from aged 18. She was awesome and I miss her so much! If she was still around I would not be wondering if she was the right fit or not. She was fab.
 

scats

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If one of the three was really right for you and your horse you would know which one it was!! The biomechanics trainer will automatically help you improve your horse by improving your position.

I agree with this. It doesn’t sound like any of the 3 are really leaving their mark on you.

I’ve just started training with someone. I travel to their yard, but fortunately only 15-20 mins away and I pay £60. She has trained with some of the best in the world and I come away feeling inspired and full of things to work on that I understand and can replicate. Well worth every penny. More importantly, she seems to really have a lot of belief in Millie (more than I do, I think! Haha!) and is absolutely confident that there is an advanced horse in there.
Even my non-horsey Dad, who has always been an endless support to me, but doesn’t really know that much, enjoys watching the lessons. He’s even picked up on a few things and then told me when I’ve failed to replicate them at competitions...!
 

Littlebear

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I go against the grain and although I did pure dressage for a lot of years and had numerous high level dressage trainers I always preferred lessons from eventers.
Also there a few trainers our way that although they are dressage focussed have not competed themselves but are excellent trainers with a great eye so may be worth looking outside the box a little?
 
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