Which stallion for my mare?

[PowCharlieWow]

I am going to be putting my mare in foal within the next couple of years and I have 2 stallions to choose between...

My mare is a 4 year old 16.2hh, KWPN x selle francais. Her breeding is Bazaars Texas x Burggraaf and she is already looking very promising as a high level jumper and I plan to enter her into the 5 year old championship at The Scope Festival of Showjumping next year.

The stallions I have to choose from are:

Baloubet du Rouet, who I am extremely interested in and from his results and the results of his offspring I feel as though he would make a valuable sire to the foal to give it the best chance of being a star.

The other stallion is Kannan x Samber and I personally know this stallion reasonably well as he is based on the yard I am at. He too is a 4 year old but looks very promising and talented in showjumping (already jumping affiliated).


I would like the foal to have the best chance at becoming a Grand Prix showjumper so the stallion I choose has to be perfect. I would appreciate any opinions or experience you have with any stallions of these bloodlines or also some other stallions worth looking at... Thanks

 

[FlyingCircus]

If you want a grand prix showjumper from the breeding - surely it would be more sensible to breed from more established horses who have already proven their talents as opposed to ones that just have "potential"?

 

[AdorableAlice]

Always breed proven to proven if you want to achieve maximum potential and even then it is a lottery as to what you might get.

 

[bakewell]

Even the best match on paper might not put forward the genetic potential you are after.... you can load the dice but it's always a gamble. And you get a different result every throw. Look at the variation within a litter of pups.

 

[martlin]

What's your mare's temperament? If she is sharp I would go for the Kannan bred stallion, Baloubets can be fiery and I always like to have an ''insurance policy'' should my youngsters not be talented/good enough for the top pro, they at least will be nice people

 

[PowCharlieWow]

She is very calm and most of the time acts like an 8 year old so temperament wise she is very good.

 

[Luce85]

Have you had a look at studs from The Billy Stud and Brendon Stud? I think Shirley from the Brendon Stud is on here, we have 2 bred by her stallions, an Unbelievable Darco and a Caretino Glory and both are top horses! We also have one from the Billy Stud, both are completetely honest regarding their stallions, I would check them out, and it supports British Breeding

 

[Spring Feather]

Those two stallions you've listed are at opposite ends of the scale. I would love to use Baloubet du Rouet on one of my exceptionally bred mares, even at his enormous price tag per straw! but sadly we don't seem to be able to get hold of his frozen semen this side of the Atlantic. The other stallion you mention is not in the same league. If these are the two stallions you've whittled it down to, it seems an odd final two as they are literally chalk and cheese.

 

[PowCharlieWow]

The reason the other stallion is being considered is because of the fact his bloodlines are exceptional with Kannan being second to Baloubet du Rouet on the WBFSH jumping sire rankings and Samber jumping upto 1.30m show jumping and being an influential coloured stallion . Also my mare is coloured and so is this stallion so they would potentially create a coloured jumping horse. I already know the stallion is worth a lot as it was imported from holland for £25,000 as a foal. Having said that Baloubet du Rouet is an exceptional proven stallion who has already bred a lot of successful showjumpers and my horse has the perfect temperament to balance out any fiery behaviour his blood would bring.

 

[Fides]

Until your mare is proven you are taking a gamble. As someone said above, although not a guarantee, you so stack the odds in your favour if both mare and stallion are already proven

 

[PowCharlieWow]

I am not planning on putting her in foal until she has had a least a couple years experience on the circuit and has proven herself as a competition horse.

 

[twiggy2]

I am not planning on putting her in foal until she has had a least a couple years experience on the circuit and has proven herself as a competition horse.

your original post stated you wanted to put her in foal within 2yrs so that is what people have commented on

 

[FlyingCircus]

I am not planning on putting her in foal until she has had a least a couple years experience on the circuit and has proven herself as a competition horse.

Then why bother with picking a stallion now?
I'd just re-evaluate when you decide to actually put her in foal, because until then you may change your mind with what you want from a foal and may also learn more about your mare and decide another stallion may be better suited.

 

[PowCharlieWow]

I am probably putting her in foal during my last year of collage in about June so she will have the foal while I am at university. I may put this date forwards or backwards depending on how my horse is going. The reason I am looking at stallions right now is because I ideally want a clear picture of where I am going with my mare, and just because I may decide on one horse now not does not mean I will shut down any ideas of other stallions nearer the time. Also me and my dad are currently looking at the idea of buying some proven broodmares to breed from so if I look at stallions now I can find one to fit any mare I will own.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I am probably putting her in foal during my last year of collage in about June so she will have the foal while I am at university. I may put this date forwards or backwards depending on how my horse is going. The reason I am looking at stallions right now is because I ideally want a clear picture of where I am going with my mare, and just because I may decide on one horse now not does not mean I will shut down any ideas of other stallions nearer the time. Also me and my dad are currently looking at the idea of buying some proven broodmares to breed from so if I look at stallions now I can find one to fit any mare I will own.

But unless you have the mare infront of you and can see her flaws as well as her assets, you can't decide a stallion based on just what the horses have achieved?

 

[PowCharlieWow]

For my own mare we have recently had a vet go over all of her conformation and check her heart and lungs ect and she has nothing wrong with her that the the vet could see and I will get the vet to go back over and check her closer to the time. As for broodmares I am only collecting information on what stallions are out there that I could potentially use if we decide to go down the breeding route.

 

[Equi]

If you want a grand prix showjumper from the breeding - surely it would be more sensible to breed from more established horses who have already proven their talents as opposed to ones that just have "potential"?

This x a million.

 

[Spring Feather]

The reason the other stallion is being considered is because of the fact his bloodlines are exceptional with Kannan being second to Baloubet du Rouet on the WBFSH jumping sire rankings ...

But you aren't considering breeding to Kannan; you're considering breeding to an unproven son with a damsire who is only jumping 1.30m.

 

[martlin]

But you aren't considering breeding to Kannan; you're considering breeding to an unproven son with a damsire who is only jumping 1.30m.

This, and also there are some established Kannan sons available, with some nice stock already on the ground

 

[Fides]

But unless you have the mare infront of you and can see her flaws as well as her assets, you can't decide a stallion based on just what the horses have achieved?

But unless a horse has achieved something exceptional, if it has flaws should it even be bred?

 

[martlin]

But unless a horse has achieved something exceptional, if it has flaws should it even be bred?

Well, there is no such thing as flawless horse...

 

[FlyingCircus]

But unless a horse has achieved something exceptional, if it has flaws should it even be bred?

If they're things like conformation flaws that don't hinder, but just aren't "ideal", I don't think it's an issue to breed from a horse with slightly flawed conformation as long as you try and find a stallion that will potentially reduce the flaw/at least not make it any worse. Of course, i'm only talking about things that don't cause huge problems to the horse and its way of going, nor make it considerably more at risk of injury. But as you say, unless the horse has done something quite outstanding, I wouldn't breed from it just for the sake of breeding - especially not trying to get a grand prix potential baby from a horse that is an unknown quantity at the moment.

 

[Spring Feather]

Well, there is no such thing as flawless horse...

Buckpasser is about the only horse I've ever heard of who was deemed flawless

 

[bakewell]

To breed a foal of immense quality, from proven parents, from lines that predict ability.... will generally cost more than buying one at weaning, unless you are a breeder/ stud that's regularly cranking them out. Additionally there's the danger to your mare. After all that it might not even be good/ suited to jumping.
Plus you have to produce it and this could really be the make or break.

If you are considering getting into breeding I would caution that there is very little money to be made on a hobby breeding front in a best case scenario. Worst case scenario you couldn't set fire to money quicker.

I understand the desire to have a legacy from a great mare that you love, but you have to be realistic about what can be achieved. If I have Totilas cover my mare that does a really nice novice test, that doesn't automatically give me a Inter I/PSG horse (y'know, half as good as Totilas).

On the other hand, best of luck however you choose to proceed.

 

[shugmx]

I was at the elite foal sales Cavan Ireland that only sells foals from top sires, last year. Balou du Rouet foal sold for 3200 euro and the Kannan foal sold for twice that and was a much surperior foal.

I am going to be putting my mare in foal within the next couple of years and I have 2 stallions to choose between...

My mare is a 4 year old 16.2hh, KWPN x selle francais. Her breeding is Bazaars Texas x Burggraaf and she is already looking very promising as a high level jumper and I plan to enter her into the 5 year old championship at The Scope Festival of Showjumping next year.

The stallions I have to choose from are:

Baloubet du Rouet, who I am extremely interested in and from his results and the results of his offspring I feel as though he would make a valuable sire to the foal to give it the best chance of being a star.

The other stallion is Kannan x Samber and I personally know this stallion reasonably well as he is based on the yard I am at. He too is a 4 year old but looks very promising and talented in showjumping (already jumping affiliated).


I would like the foal to have the best chance at becoming a Grand Prix showjumper so the stallion I choose has to be perfect. I would appreciate any opinions or experience you have with any stallions of these bloodlines or also some other stallions worth looking at... Thanks

 

[Spring Feather]

I was at the elite foal sales Cavan Ireland that only sells foals from top sires, last year. Balou du Rouet foal sold for 3200 euro and the Kannan foal sold for twice that and was a much surperior foal.

Just to point out, she isn't considering breeding to either Balou du Rouet OR Kannan so there isn't really much relevance to your comment. Sorry if this sounds impolite, it's not, it's just that you are talking about stallions who aren't on OPs list.

 

[doriangrey]

But she did say that she was considering other stallions

'I would like the foal to have the best chance at becoming a Grand Prix showjumper so the stallion I choose has to be perfect. I would appreciate any opinions or experience you have with any stallions of these bloodlines or also some other stallions worth looking at... Thanks'

I read original post as she'd narrowed down the choice to two atm but still looking.

 

[Spring Feather]

I read original post as she'd narrowed down the choice to two atm but still looking.

Perhaps, and you could very well be right considering the two stallions it's been narrowed down to are absolutely not comparable in the slightest. My apologies to you, shugmx, if this is the case.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Surely if you really want a coloured foal, then you should be testing the sire for homozygous as opposed to simply hoping for him to throw a coloured? And I would want to see previous foals. A friend put her strawberry roan to a fabulous coloured who is tested and always produces minimally coloured yet she got an evenly coloured filly. You need to look at your genetics very carefully, not go on a wing and a prayer. Springfeather is a brilliant person to talk to about this.

You need to look at whether the stallions you're considering are a good fit conformationally, too. Do they complement her physically?

 

[doriangrey]

Also - very important it's not just about nature but nurture. Often overlooked imo.