Whichever side of the fence you are on about hunting, this is an informative read...

ycbm

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Oh not this one A-gain! Done to death in the hunting section of the forum. The article is misleading.

It talks several times of sabbing of drag hunts and bloodhound hunts. I've never known this happen though I've drag hunted extensively and bloodhounded a little. I have only heard of anecdotes decades of years old and plainly mistakes. It says Google it if you don't believe it happens. I have and there is no record of any sabbing of drag or bloodhounds that I can find.

It barely mentions that the main reason that 'legal' trail hunts are being sabbed is because some are openly hunting fox and others are deliberately laying trails that are so weak that they can then have a proper hunt when the hounds 'accidentally' pick up fox instead of the laid scent, which is technically legal.

So, not very informative after all, sorry.
 

Mule

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Oh not this one A-gain! Done to death in the hunting section of the forum. The article is misleading.

It talks several times of sabbing of drag hunts and bloodhound hunts. I've never known this happen though I've drag hunted extensively and bloodhounded a little. I have only heard of anecdotes decades of years old and plainly mistakes. It says Google it if you don't believe it happens. I have and there is no record of any sabbing of drag or bloodhounds that I can find.

It barely mentions that the main reason that 'legal' trail hunts are being sabbed is because some are openly hunting fox and others are deliberately laying trails that are so weak that they can then have a proper hunt when the hounds 'accidentally' pick up fox instead of the laid scent, which is technically legal.

So, not very informative after all, sorry.
If (legitimate) trail hunting involves laying a scent then what's the difference between it and drag hunting? I'm not asking in connection to the op's post. I'm just wondering about the differences.
 

ycbm

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Trail hunters lay a weaker trail to mimic a fox hunt as closely as they can, to genuinely test the hunting skills of the hounds, and to keep those skills sharp in case the law is ever repealed. A drag trail is a stronger scent because they exist purely to give sport to the riders and need to stick to the known and agreed trail over farmers' land. The law was set to allow for losing the scent and accidentally picking up fox not to be illegal, but it's being exploited. I hunted for years with different drag hunts and never once saw hounds lose the trail so badly that they couldn't immediately be called back to it by the huntsman. I often saw them pick up fox, but again, they were easy to call back to the proper scent.
 

palo1

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Have a look at the 3 Counties Bloodhounds: they were harassed in a very nasty fashion last year and there ARE other incidents involving drag hunts. Nothing contentious about blood hounding or drag hunting but still, somehow, sabs get away with behaving in a way in the countryside that would result in a riot van arriving in a town or city. It is another symptom of the urban/rural inequality in the UK. It is perfectly fine to monitor trail hunt activity or to express opinions but the behaviour and attitudes of some groups of sabs is vicious and dangerous and seems to have nothing whatsoever to contribute to any meaningful debate about animal welfare issues. Just saying!
 

splashgirl45

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i am not on either side but why are large groups of masked people allowed to harass and frighten people and mistreat their animals.....these so called animal lovers are just looking for a fight, the same as certain groups who cause problems at football matches.....by all means protest if you dont agree with fox hunting but to grab the reins of a horse and jab it in the mouth or to spray pepper into hounds eyes is not the action of an animal lover....IMO,,,,,
 

Michen

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Having had hunt sabs deliberately revving their engine up my horses backside whilst I was hacking back to my lorry, alone, with a dangling broken ankle (clearly seen as right ankle) I honestly think these people are absolute scum. A total lack of humanity let alone empathy for my horse who they were deliberately attempting to frighten.
 

ycbm

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ycbm

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'Incurred' in the post above should have been 'invited' damned Swype
 

fourshiresrambler

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Oh not this one A-gain! Done to death in the hunting section of the forum. The article is misleading.

It talks several times of sabbing of drag hunts and bloodhound hunts. I've never known this happen though I've drag hunted extensively and bloodhounded a little. I have only heard of anecdotes decades of years old and plainly mistakes. It says Google it if you don't believe it happens. I have and there is no record of any sabbing of drag or bloodhounds that I can find.

It barely mentions that the main reason that 'legal' trail hunts are being sabbed is because some are openly hunting fox and others are deliberately laying trails that are so weak that they can then have a proper hunt when the hounds 'accidentally' pick up fox instead of the laid scent, which is technically legal.

So, not very informative after all, sorry.

You probably haven't seen it because the hunts do not use Social Media like the sabs do. I have seen bloodhound hunts be harassed, I have seen sabs at bloodhound hunts, so they dlearly so not understand it.

The issue is that there is so much coverage every time a hunt does anything, even an angry word, because the sabs are always there filming and post everything on social media. There is no where near as much coverage of what the sabs do because the hunts don't really tend to video, they don't share crap on social media all the time and they don't run to the media every time someone does something to them.

It's so one sided it's ridiculous.
 

ester

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Plenty consider the 'horse and dog abuse' to be sufficient reason to sab regardless of quarry.

Most of the info I see rocks around facebook so no it won't necessarily come up on google but google doesn't know everything ;)
 
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fourshiresrambler

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Plenty consider the 'horse and dog abuse' to be sufficient reason to sab regardless of quarry.

Most of the info I see rocks around facebook so no it won't necessarily come up on google but google doesn't know everything ;)

If you look at the Facebook page 'Hunting for Truth' they have a lot of the footage of sabs being idiots and dangerous, but as you said it doesn't come up on Google so you need to find them on Facebook usually. But there is lots of them and they are undeniable.
 

palo1

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The only thing I can find online about sabs and the Three Counties Bloodhounds is this, a report of when they were incurred to be the quarry for a day.

https://network23.org/3chuntsabs/2017/02/13/4th-february-three-counties-bloodhounds/





I agree that a lot of sab activity is unacceptable, and if illegal should be prosecuted.
Sorry - I can't find the news article now re: Three Counties Bloodhounds :( I know it happened as it was reported in one of the local papers. Frustrating.
 

ycbm

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Oh ester, that's like telling a child that Santa doesn't exist :eek: no telling what harm you could do to a dedicated Googler :D;)


This forum is the only place I know where anyone thinks it's clever to ridicule others for trying to educate themselves.
 

fourshiresrambler

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This forum is the only place I know where anyone thinks it's clever to ridicule others for trying to educate themselves.

Seems to be the theme for most of the internet now unfortunately. Which is why people only ever see one side of anything, because they don't feel the need to learn unfortunately, to fact check etc :(
 

ycbm

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If you look at the Facebook page 'Hunting for Truth' they have a lot of the footage of sabs being idiots and dangerous, but as you said it doesn't come up on Google so you need to find them on Facebook usually. But there is lots of them and they are undeniable.


Thanks, I will take a look. I don't usually use Facebook but I have a logon just for times like this.
 

Rowreach

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Seems to be the theme for most of the internet now unfortunately. Which is why people only ever see one side of anything, because they don't feel the need to learn unfortunately, to fact check etc :(
This forum is the only place I know where anyone thinks it's clever to ridicule others for trying to educate themselves.

You are both rather missing the point. "Educating" oneself via Google (or hoovering if you will) is an incredibly risky business, which can lead to all sorts of erroneous posts being made on forums such as this, or indeed in real life.

I do apologise for having a sense of humour (slaps self on wrist).
 

DirectorFury

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The only thing I can find online about sabs and the Three Counties Bloodhounds is this, a report of when they were incurred to be the quarry for a day.

https://network23.org/3chuntsabs/2017/02/13/4th-february-three-counties-bloodhounds/

I agree that a lot of sab activity is unacceptable, and if illegal should be prosecuted.
Sorry - I can't find the news article now re: Three Counties Bloodhounds :( I know it happened as it was reported in one of the local papers. Frustrating.

This is the TCB incident.
Screenshot 2019-01-19 at 18.09.47.png

And the outcome
Screenshot 2019-01-19 at 18.12.42.png
 

Blazingsaddles

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i am not on either side but why are large groups of masked people allowed to harass and frighten people and mistreat their animals.....these so called animal lovers are just looking for a fight, the same as certain groups who cause problems at football matches.....by all means protest if you dont agree with fox hunting but to grab the reins of a horse and jab it in the mouth or to spray pepper into hounds eyes is not the action of an animal lover....IMO,,,,,[/QUOTE. AKA ‘rent-a-mob’. Anarchists, saddos, life’s dropouts, far-right brigade, they all seem to enjoy violently harassing people.
 

fourshiresrambler

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This is my opinion also, I am against hunting animals full stop but nothing against drag hunting. I am very against violence towards animals and people because you don't agree with their opinions or hobbies.
 

ycbm

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This is the TCB incident.
View attachment 29033

And the outcome
View attachment 29034



This is a terrible incident but it's clearly stated in both reports that it isn't sabbing. It's an attack by a bunch of mindless yobs in exactly the same way as assaults take place in town centres against groups which seem different. I've seen a similar case of a car used in this way against cyclists, for example, another hated group of people. It is completely unacceptable and I hope that the offenders were prosecuted for dangerous driving.

I think it's important to distinguish between the activities of idiots and those who are intent on stopping the abuse of hunting legislation. One group has a valid point, the others don't.
 

palo1

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Yes, it was not an official hunt protest BUT you cannot overstate the way in which sabs behaviour has informed this mindless thuggery: as it is ok for official sabs to act in this way, so it is for 'unofficial' or spontaneous actions. The issues for these idiots were class and 'hunting', or at least that is what they chose to identify with and that signals to me at least, that they thought those were valid reasons for this vile attack. That surely is an anti-hunting (and class) action? The parallel with Al Quaeda organised terrorism and spontaneous acts of terrorism in recent years is similar: both are born of the same hatred.
 

Tiddlypom

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There are nutters on both sides of the pro and anti hunting divide.

I keep my eye on the Hunting for Truth (a misleading title if ever there was one ;)) FB page, and 3 different local anti hunt group FB pages to try and keep up with what's going on locally. My local pack is being actively sabbed and monitored by any/all of these 3 groups.

Somewhere in the middle of all the misinformation is something approaching the truth. I do not support active sabbing which includes anyone who makes their own horn calls to confuse the hounds and which often leads to them milling about on the road. I don't have any problem with monitors who purely monitor the hunt, whilst not trespassing or directly interfering with the hunt.
 
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