While BE struggles - BD thrives

[LEC]

Thoughts?!?

This year, we’ve effectively squeezed a 12-month calendar into just eight months, which has pushed the BD team to the limit, but I’m You may have read our amazing news that we topped 18,000 members for the first time at the end of February, with horses also at a new record level of 16,800. Compared to this time last year, membership is up 23% and horses are now 33% higher, which makes us the fastest growing equestrian sport!

When you consider that the total dropped to just over 14,000 members at the height of the pandemic, these numbers have recovered much quicker than anyone would have expected. This has been achieved through a combination of lapsed members returning, including those who have not competed for a number of years, as well as some 1,500 brand new members who are experiencing affiliated dressage for the first time.

 

[milliepops]

Does depend on your area a bit but there's a lot on offer. Not that much of a cost difference these days between aff and unaff either. Plus i think there's a degree of kudos affiliating that may have ebbed away at BE.

I'm looking forward to having a horse ready to affiliate again ?

 

[Nicnac]

Jason Brautigam has been in post since 2014. BD was in a bit of a mess when he joined. Helen West since last year. Give her a chance.

Jason brought a strong commercial background, as does Helen along with an easy communication style. Let's hope Helen can do for BE what Jason has, and continues to do for BD.

 

[RachelFerd]

Meh. Now I've been out eventing a few times this season I can't muster up any enthusiasm to go and do dressage. Dull as dishwater in comparison to a good day's eventing.

However, I stay a BD member as I pay monthly and barely notice the £7/month leave my bank account!

At some point in early winter I'll go out again, and then remember how little atmosphere there is ans regret my choices in plaiting up to not have any fun.

That aside, I do think BD are doing a good job. And I think Helen is doing a good job at BE. Eventing will always have a smaller audience because as a dangerous sport across 3 phases it takes more nerve and more time - always going to equal smaller audience, as BD literally has something for everyone - unmounted discounted posture training, walk/trot intro tests etc etc

 

[GreyDot]

Depends on where you are - barely nothing in the North East and apart from 2 venues, there are very low entries above Elementary (as in under 5 in a class).

 

[milliepops]

Yeah its pretty bloody great value in Gloucestershire, but then BE was decent round here too. One reason I can never move ?

 

[SO1]

I think dressage is more appealing in general. It is cheaper, lower risk of injury, you don't need a very fit horse at the lower levels most horses and ponies are fit enough to do a prelim.

Most yards have a school so people can practice dressage very few yards have a x country course.

The championship for different types of horses makes it very amateur friendly you don't need a traditional warmblood dressage horse to feel part of it.

Even I could probably qualify for a championship on my 20 year New Forest I could probably do 3 intros and get 60% or above.

https://www.britishdressage.co.uk/c...hips-and-qualifiers/associated-championships/

 

[ycbm]

Dressage benefits from a belief, (which used to be true but I don't know if it still is?), that unaffiliated competition is scored more generously, meaning that affiliating is the only way you can really judge how well you and your horse are doing. It doesn't, therefore, face the same challenges from unaffiliated competition that BE and BS does.

With the increase in numbers, they're clearly doing something very right and deserve congratulations for listening to their customer base.
.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

That aside, I do think BD are doing a good job. And I think Helen is doing a good job at BE.

I hope you are right because I want a thriving BE grassroots scene. But I can't see much evidence of it. I have entered Northallerton unaff running over the same course as everyone did lasy weekend.

Website: BE is complex with multiple steps to enter. Entering unaff was simple, intuitive and very quick.
Key info: BE was hard to find where to print the numbers last year. Unaff the Link to the numbers was totally obvious
Entry systems: Risk of being ballotted out (as has happened to many to Kelsall when they dropped a day) versus knowing you are in and planning accordingly. I appreciate members need some advantages or they wouldn't be members but members get ballotted out too which is doubly annoying! They need a better way to reqard membership. Reduced entry costs for full members not the ballot system or something.

Not to mention the costs which are far, far lower. I just can't see why I would return to BE at the moment other than loyalty.

So in what way are BE 'doing a good job'? Your ideas are great but I am not aware any of them are actually being put in place? Or is it just too soon to see these changes?

 

[VRIN]

I have in the past always joined and supported BE - even when I wasn't competing! I ceased my membership during Covid as I felt I had given enough support (For a couple of years I had joined but not competed) My last experience with BE - I made a late entry at an event on a Sunday, the Monday I was in hospital with sepsis and so unable to compete. I got no refund. I recognise rules are rules and I understand all the arguments etc etc etc... but honestly what difference did my entry (of last then 24 hours) make in the running of an event???

Now there are so many unaffiliated events running over BE courses that I am not going to rejoin BE. I don't feel they offer anything that I can't get unaffiliated (if I select my events carefully)

 

[Nicnac]

Now there are so many unaffiliated events running over BE courses that I am not going to rejoin BE. I don't feel they offer anything that I can't get unaffiliated (if I select my events carefully)

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist? So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

 

[RachelFerd]

I hope you are right because I want a thriving BE grassroots scene. But I can't see much evidence of it. I have entered Northallerton unaff running over the same course as everyone did lasy weekend.

Website: BE is complex with multiple steps to enter. Entering unaff was simple, intuitive and very quick.
Key info: BE was hard to find where to print the numbers last year. Unaff the Link to the numbers was totally obvious
Entry systems: Risk of being ballotted out (as has happened to many to Kelsall when they dropped a day) versus knowing you are in and planning accordingly. I appreciate members need some advantages or they wouldn't be members but members get ballotted out too which is doubly annoying! They need a better way to reqard membership. Reduced entry costs for full members not the ballot system or something.

Not to mention the costs which are far, far lower. I just can't see why I would return to BE at the moment other than loyalty.

So in what way are BE 'doing a good job'? Your ideas are great but I am not aware any of them are actually being put in place? Or is it just too soon to see these changes?

I gather there's a total calendar overhaul at grassroots for next year. I think long and short of it though is that the unaff situation does have to stop. Am out enjoying a weekend away so no lengthy replies from me today!!

 

[VRIN]

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist? So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

Thats something none of us have an answer for.. time will tell but equally organisers must feel the need to run unaffiliated events to see a profit ..

 

[I'm Dun]

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist? So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

This is why I wanted to join BE. It feels like you should support them. But the cost of living is going through the roof and the alternatives are not only cheaper but they are better from almost every angle. As a not very good middle aged woman wanting to dip a toe back in I dont think I can justify the huge expense of BE now on top of the other issues. Its clear lots and lots feel the same. But it does beg the question about what happens long term and I dont have the answers.

 

[LEC]

I am so uninspired by BE calendar. It needs a good looking at and should have regional committees looking at it.
I think the big problem is before covid BE got incredibly complacent which allowed professional Unaff to spring up. BD is much more customer focused hence unaff has never taken a foothold or been professionally done.

 

[shortstuff99]

BD is great when you're not in East Anglia, were there are no venues and the few that are around don't run weekends ?.

Weirdly the BE is probably better round here, although still not that many venues.

 

[Cragrat]

So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

but equally organisers must feel the need to run unaffiliated events to see a profit ..

Funded by BE in the course building and design?

But if organisers feel they cannot make enough of a living from their one or two BE events, and they have invested in the course, it seems daft for them not to use the course again. I actually wonder if unaffiliated doesn't fund the BE events, more than the other way around?

 

[ycbm]

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist? So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

I don't understand this comment? The cross country course at Eland, for example, should be paying for itself as a schooling venue and with all sorts of non BE activity throughout the year. If BE is funding the cross country course at Eland, it doesn't need to for Eland to survive as an unaffiliated venue. It can survive like non BE courses like Smallwood. Somerford Park has two huge cross country schooling areas that are self funding quite separate from the BE course.
.

 

[MagicMelon]

Meh. Now I've been out eventing a few times this season I can't muster up any enthusiasm to go and do dressage. Dull as dishwater in comparison to a good day's eventing.

Yeah I cant imagine many eventers will turn to just BD. Surely most are in it for jumping so if anything they'd turn to BS first? I know I certainly would.

 

[ycbm]

Yeah I cant imagine many eventers will turn to just BD. Surely most are in it for jumping so if anything they'd turn to BS first? I know I certainly would.

Most eventers I knew were in it for the xc and hated show jumping ?

 

[Nicnac]

I don't understand this comment? The cross country course at Eland, for example, should be paying for itself as a schooling venue and with all sorts of non BE activity throughout the year. If BE is funding the cross country course at Eland, it doesn't need to for Eland to survive as an unaffiliated venue. It can survive like non BE courses like Smallwood. Somerford Park has two huge cross country schooling areas that are self funding quite separate from the BE course.
.

The better unaffiliated venues (Eland, Munstead, Tweseldown, Aston as examples) also run BE where the ground is good and well maintained and the fences are quality. If those venues didn't have access to BE equipment for ground maintenance and technical advice for their fences, would they be so popular? I don't know the answer.

 

[ycbm]

The better unaffiliated venues (Eland, Munstead, Tweseldown, Aston as examples) also run BE where the ground is good and well maintained and the fences are quality. If those venues didn't have access to BE equipment for ground maintenance and technical advice for their fences, would they be so popular? I don't know the answer.

I'm pretty certain Eland is self sufficient without BE, having ridden there UA several times.


ETA Smallwood, near me, is a xc course of BE standard which has only ever done UA and schooling hire and seems to be profitable and rideable without any BE involvement.
.

 

[quizzie]

Meh. Now I've been out eventing a few times this season I can't muster up any enthusiasm to go and do dressage. Dull as dishwater in comparison to a good day's eventing.

While I agree that dressage doesn’t have the adrenaline factor, I have set myself the challenge of learning tempi changes in my old age, (after a lifetime eventing,) which I am finding surprisingly interesting and frustrating in equal measure!

 

[milliepops]

While I agree that dressage doesn’t have the adrenaline factor, I have set myself the challenge of learning tempi changes in my old age, (after a lifetime eventing,) which I am finding surprisingly interesting and frustrating in equal measure!

Teaching my welshie to passage was a fairish adrenaline rush ? once you get to flying changes I reckon the rest of it is pretty fun.

 

[quizzie]

Teaching my welshie to passage was a fairish adrenaline rush ? once you get to flying changes I reckon the rest of it is pretty fun.

Yes….I’m now trying things that I describe as well above my pay grade…..last week I got a few strides of a seriously elevated trot, I’m not sure if it will become passage or extended trot yet, but the feeling of controlled power was quite extraordinary!

 

[humblepie]

I have un-joined BD as feel there is uncertainty as to one (or more) of their rules. For example, what is a conservative coloured jacket? That isn't the rule that annoys me but is an example.

 

[milliepops]

intrigued about the annoying rule now

i think they are trying to loosen up so would probably be grateful for your feedback if that's literally your reason for leaving. IME the office are pretty good at clarifying where there is any confusion. I don't think the conservative colour thing is an issue personally, some people wear dark green or burgundy but otherwise it's mainly still grey, blue or black... it's just to avoid dayglo i think

 

[RachelFerd]

I'm pretty certain Eland is self sufficient without BE, having ridden there UA several times.


ETA Smallwood, near me, is a xc course of BE standard which has only ever done UA and schooling hire and seems to be profitable and rideable without any BE involvement.
.

Smallwood is a great little course, and it is close to BE standard, but it isn't quite there, for a few reasons. Firstly, there is no frangible tech on some of the very upright 'rail-y' fences which at a BE event would now be pinned, even at 90/100 level. I have also seen events run there, albeit at low levels, on ground which is extremely firm - and were it affiliated, would have been able to benefit from BE's equipment such as the aggravator to help create less jarring conditions.

The better unaffiliated venues (Eland, Munstead, Tweseldown, Aston as examples) also run BE where the ground is good and well maintained and the fences are quality. If those venues didn't have access to BE equipment for ground maintenance and technical advice for their fences, would they be so popular? I don't know the answer.

Tweseldown no longer runs unaffiliated. Rachael who runs Tweseldown also heads the British Eventing Organisers Association and as I understand it is not willing to accept the level of risk involved with running unaffiliated competition. I think the course also does extremely well as an all-year schooling facility.

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist? So many unaffiliated events are fundamentally funded by BE.

I'm with you on this one. This is the question bugging me, and I don't think people realise the huge amounts of indirect facilitation for the sport that come from BE. Without BE there isn't a rulebook. Or anyone to uphold those rules. There would be no training and accreditation for course designers and builders. There would be no frangible technology, nor no research into it [and this is literally saving horses and people's lives]. There would be no systems in place for rider concussion safety. No fleet of aerovaters and aggravators. No research into fence safety, rider falls and rotational falls. No rules about how portables should be pinned to the floor to prevent rotationals. There would be no means to prevent doping and have anti-doping testing procedures. There would be no officials to ensure events were run safely, fairly and consistently. There would be no link to the FEI, no international competitions, no pathway to reach international level. There would be no structure to the calendar, no national championships. No rules to make sure that overqualified horses and riders were competing against novices. No ability to reprimand people who break the rules, commit welfare offences or are safeguarding risks.

And then back to the more direct argument - the reason why lots of people enter Cholmondeley unaffiliated rather than one run at Smallwood (sticking to Cheshire examples here) is because they want the 'prestigious' feeling of riding around a BE track, but they don't want to pay for it.

Funded by BE in the course building and design?

But if organisers feel they cannot make enough of a living from their one or two BE events, and they have invested in the course, it seems daft for them not to use the course again. I actually wonder if unaffiliated doesn't fund the BE events, more than the other way around?

And this is the crux of the problem at the moment with the way that fixtures have been organised.

1. of course if they've invested in the course they need to use it - [and running unaff events is one way. But it isn't the only option - they can open for schooling, use for camps and clinics, run hunter trials, run 'have a go' days]
2. the fixtures calendar is meant to be designed to prevent events crossing across each other - because you don't want lots of events running in one specific part of the country taking entries from each other
3. but if the direct result of that is that the event can't run BE so just puts on an unaff event instead, its double whammy of negative effects, as it undermines the sport and STILL takes entries away from the other local event
4. the fixtures list has also developed problematically because of the previous abandonment insurance - many events were prepping an event for BE which ran at a high risk part of the season (early spring, late autumn) but running their low risk weather fixtures throughout the summer unaffiliated.

I believe that trying to get agreement between event organisers is a bit like herding cats, but gather that a total rework of grassroots calendar is likely.

My view (not necessarily represented by anyone within BE) is that there is no reason for unaffiliated eventing to exist - just bring it all back under the umbrella of BE, or PC or RC. Give organisers more flexibility to run the events they want to run, with some protection for other local events, and let people participate at the low levels for cheaper.

[and I also see no need for unaffiliated dressage or SJ to exist either... for a very similar set of reasons]

Oh and PPS - i've just entered an unaffiliated event over a BE track for a couple of weeks time, because I couldn't stomach paying the late fee to go to Eland. Didn't enter before ballot because horse had a hoof abscess and I wanted to check he was sound before entering. So I TOTALLY get the pragmatic reasons for wanting to run unaffiliated...

 

[humblepie]

intrigued about the annoying rule now

i think they are trying to loosen up so would probably be grateful for your feedback if that's literally your reason for leaving. IME the office are pretty good at clarifying where there is any confusion. I don't think the conservative colour thing is an issue personally, some people wear dark green or burgundy but otherwise it's mainly still grey, blue or black... it's just to avoid dayglo i think

Lol, no the jacket thing isn't really an issue but it is one of those things which isn't very well defined in the rule book. The other rule is one where the FEI have advised me of their interpretation which isn't the same as BD's but BD refers to the FEI on it.

 

[ycbm]

But what happens to these events if BE doesn't exist?.

I'm with you on this one. This is the question bugging me,

What would happen is what was happening before BE introduced BE80/90/100.

There would be a raft of unaffiliated competition like there used to be, and like we seem to be moving back to.
.