White line disease in youngstock - HELP please

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Holly831

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My now 18 month old filly developed abcesses in 3 of her feet within a week of her first trim (aged around 9 weeks) since then she has had white line disease and despite meticulous foot hygiene and getting nearly rid, it reappears.

On advice from my new farrier she has been in her box for 4 months now (and I hate keeping her in) and on cleaning her feet tonight I have just found another track. Can't believe it - I have been told its because she was badly trimmed first time but I am at a loss as to what to do next...Please any help?
 
Wow that seems mega extreme- 4 months box rest just to try and get rid of WLD
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Jeez. Would it be worth seeking another opinon?
Most horses have it to some degree, surely it would be better for her to be out so that she keeps the blood flow circulating in her foot?
Being out would harden up her soles ( unless your fields are horribly muddy) and allow the foot to regain some degree of normal function and a normal shape. Surely being in so much will stop the foot functioning properly and all the muck and wet will be getting into her feet if kept in?
I would chuck out, and soak the feet in cleantrax twice a week and apply keratex hoof disinfectant once a week. And def feed a really good hoof supplement that will make all the difference.
Cant really pass judgement tho because I dont know how severe the feet are in your filly.
But I will say that nearly every horse developes this to some degree , to no ill effect. It would be mad to think along the lines off 'must get rid of it completly' and instead think along the lines of just trying to stay on top of it.
 
Thanks! Yes we are on clay land and with all the rain we have lots n lots of mud. I did turn her out yesterday in the snow and she obviously loved it. Her feet look terrible. My previous farrier wanted to disect the front of her feet and fit heart bar shoes - pretty drastic - so this is actually my 3rd opinion and her feet are the best they have been. She is 100% sound. I clean/scrub at least 2x a day along with deep bed (dry) and seem to be for ever picking her feet out (one benifit is she is fantastic to do) I use Keratex disinfectant and she is also on Naff Pro Feet (has been for around 10 months)

I dont feel I am even getting on top of it. She has 3 out of 4 feet affected with huge areas of hollow wall where it has tracked up. I have 3 other youngsters (one half sister -dam and one half brother - stallion side) all of which are OK.

I will take some pics and post them tomorrow.
 
That sounds really awful,what a nightmare!All I can suggest is changing the foot supplement and trying formula4 feet for a couple of months- different foot supps work well on different horses. with formula4feet I noticed a drastic improvement in 3 months. If the naf pro was really working I really think that you shoulv'e seen a difference by now, the fact that there are still holes there is not a good result.

Do you use Cleantrax? Its used for soaking the feet &Apparently its the one disinfectant that really really works well - it is an american product but i think can be ordered with postage to the uk
http://www.centaurforge.com/CleanTrax-Hoof-Cleaner-25g/productinfo/10701
With cleantrax you soak the foot in solution for a good hour or so-( or as long as its physically possible!) maybe you could do just the one foot per day rather than continually scrubbing each foot out twice a day, so that the foot have time to really dry out and harden.
I think that the keratex disinfectant can be used on top of the cleantrax- just dab it on twice a week.
 
This does not sound like a straightforward infection. From the length of time she has had it and your difficulty curing it I would guess that she probably has metabolic problems. You need to get to the bottom of why she is not growing a tight white line. It is not true that most horses have WLD to some extent. Most shod horses, yes. Most barefoot horses, no. Most 18 month old fillies, definitely no.

The trim may be completely irrelevent. She started these problems just as she stopped suckling from her mother as her main source of nutrition and started eating grass/hay/whatever else you feed her.

What are you feeding her? The fact that the laminae are gone at the front of the foot where your farrier wants to dissect could be indicative of laminitis, as this is where the laminae die most. Laminitis will also cause the poor white line connection which is allowing the white line disease to grab a hold. She is very young to have these problems, but maybe her immune system is compromised in some way - insulin resistant, for example.

Barefooters with difficult horses would suggest that you try cutting out anything with molasses, corn syrup or wheat syrup in it. (stud mix is a big no-no!) And drop the commercial balancers (which have the chemicals in but they are man-made, whereas if you feed them in natural things they can be a lot more "bio-available". So you could give her brewer's yeast (20 g), magnesium oxide (10g) both on eBay and possibly linseed and seaweed too, though most of them don't need the latter two. And feed her soaked hay, or haylage made from established meadow not from commercial ryegrass.

It really does sound to me from what you've written that your filly's problem isn't the WLD, that's just a symptom.
 
Agree totally with cptrayes.

Look very closely at her diet. Unfortunatley it does sound like she's one of those horses that has big metabolic problems and may be completely intolerant of sugar. Or there may be other underlying issues going on with her - I would have blood tests done, liver and/or kidney function may be compromised allowing more toxins to be released into the body, which attack the laminae, killing them off and resulting in what your farrier/vet is calling WLD. WLD is just another manifestation of laminitis.
 
Thanks - I will try the Clean Trax defo!
She started with this at around 9 weeks old and wasn't weaned until nearly 10 months old. She has never been fed stud cubes but did get foal mix for a short time last winter. She is now fed haylage (cut from our fields) with a small feed of fibre beet with alfa-a (just so I can give her supliments).

My vet sugested taking as much sugar out of her diet last winter which I have hopefully done!!

Being a bit (LOT) thick - what is a UKNHCP trimmenr?

Thanks again!
 
With my filly I swore by a daily aplication of good old stockholm tar on affected areas and then a daily application of kevin bacon hoof dressing right up to the coronet. My Farrier couldn't get over the improvement. It did take several months though. I personally wouldnt box rest - I think the stable is such a breeding ground for all sorts which contribute to poor hoof health.

I too would think looking at the bigger picture in terms of feeding etc would be agood idea.
 
It does sound like there's something else going on here as she started so young - I would definitely get the blood tests done and a liver function test... there has to be a cause of so many toxins being released into her body and/or her body not being able to deal with them - finding what it is might be a nightmare though.

Try swaping the haylage for soaked hay - many metabolically challenged horses can't tolerate haylage. These horses often can't tolerate alfalfa either, so swapping fast fibre for the fibre beet might be useful. You don't say which Alfa-A you're feeding but all the Alfa-a's except Alfa Oil contain molasses, so again by swapping for an non-alfalfa based, molasses free chop you might see an improvement - something like the TopSpec TopChop Lite. You also don't mention what her turnout is like - she might be one of those horses that can't tolerate any grass at all... so her turnout will need to be non-pasture based... a yard/hardstanding or sand/dirt. Peagravel surfaces are ideal.

A UKNHCP trimmer is a qualified barefoot trimmer trained under that particular organisation. There are various other barefoot organisations in the UK and worldwide - such as the AANHCP (Association for the Advancement of Natural Horse Care Practises), Equine Podiatry Org etc In general trimmers who undertake training with these organisations will not only have been trained to trim a hoof but will also have received training in nutrition, environment factors, natural movement, equine psychology and many other things.
 
M_G a warm wet summer may be the perfect breeding conditions but unless you give it somewhere to live, it can't get hold. I live in a very wet area of the country in a National Park on wet ground and none of my three have had a spot of WLD all year. If your horse has had WLD for months and months on end then the white line is compromised and has given the bugs somwhere nice to breed that's a metabolic issue, not one of the weather or soil conditions (though they don't help!).

Sashpip, your vet knows his stuff if he has already suggested removing sugar from her diet. Are there any tests he's prepared to do, like insulin resistance, diabetes, or maybe even cushings (I have no idea if they can ever have it that young it normally affects horses in double figures.)?

What supplements do you give her? Is she worse/footie after worming? Do you use moxidectin to worm? Can you get a sugar analysis done on your haylage? Can you try soaked hay instead for a while? Is her coat as good condition as your other youngsters?

I didn't mean weaning,by the way, it is just that her first trim was pretty much around the time that I see foals taking significant amounts of food other than their mother's milk - grass, hay, sharing their mother's hard food. I find it very hard to imagine how a trim can possibly have caused white line disease.

UKNHCP is United Kingdom Association of Natural Hoofcare Practitioners. Their syllabus covers a lot of ground on nutrition of difficult metabolic cases in unshod horses.

Good luck with this, it sounds like a nasty puzzle that will be difficult to resolve.
 
g-g I wrote this much earlier and lost it and just found it again (pooters!) It isn't meant to contradict anything that you've said. I also think your idea of a liver function test is spot on.
 
Apart from treating it daily and farrier continuing to cut back the hoof to allow it to be treated I can think of nothing else to do, if you have any Ideas I will happily try them both vet and farrier think we are doing all we can (we have managed to get rid of it in one hind but its clinging on to the other)

he is not young
 
The same as for the filly, M_G, look at his diet first - does he get a lot of grass? mix? molassed chaff? unsoaked hay? If he's not young is his liver working well? is this early symptoms of cushings? If he's on a commercial balancer you could stop giving that and give him brewer's yeast 50g (yes, it's a lot!!) and magnesium oxide 25g (on eBay) definitely and possibly linseed and seaweed too. The vitamins in them are not man-made chemicals and some horses seem to find them eaiser to "use". Interesting that it's only in his hinds?????? I wonder why?
 
Until recently, I swore by iodine, as research showed it the best. However, my farrier suggested I try Anti-bac, and I am delighted to say it is appearing very effective. Best external treatment.
 
Can I point both of you to the following thread in uknhcp.myfastforum.org

It's possible that your horses with WLD have EPSM/PSSM Equine polysaccharide storage myopathy. The filly is too young, but with your older horse you might research the behavioural problems and see if your horse has any of those (the main ones I have seen are unreasonably "fretful" behaviour in a stable, a refusal to move when ridden on some days and explosive bucking and rearing on others, while winning dressage competitions and being a complete sweetie to handle the rest of the time).

http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/sutra12586.php#12586
 
He is 19 and does drag his hind toes (arthritic hocks) he is on Topspec senior, fibergy, spedi beet & cortaflex (helps with his stiffness) I am treating it with antibac at the moment (it is one teensy black line) farrier has cut away the wall so I can treat it..

I am very reluctant to take him off the Topspec as it has helped his stiffness along with the cortaflex HA
 
I have found this

Common signs and symptoms include:

* Exertional Rhabdomyolysis
* Exercise Intolerance
* Muscle Stiffness
* Shifting Lamenss
* Back Pain
* Camped-out stance - standing with legs behind or in front of body instead of directly under
* Muscle atrophy

He has none of those symptoms
 
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