Who has started their youngster at 3?

moneypit1

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I have started quite a few yougsters but they have all been rising 4 or 4. Just wondered who had started theirs at 3 and the reasons for it?
 
I'm thinking about it... but only if you mean "start" as in: light intro to lungework, basic introduction to tack, basic aids and a rider.

If you mean actually going out for a long ride or competing, then, probably not, that'll be at 4 definitely.
 
My youngest turned 3 at the beginning of this month, and I will be backing her this summer.
I will only be getting the basics installed and the actual riding will be limited to a few minutes at a time, so certainly no hacking out, and I'm only doing it because she is mentally ready and getting very bored.
 
I started mine at 3yrs 3mths, he was well grown and looked quite mature. We did lots on the long reins, a bit of lunging, backed and rode him away.

His sister was started at 4, she was a lot less mature at the same age.
 
Ive given up sharing my views on starting horses too early, as I always get jumped on - but there are some thought provoking words here. https://www.facebook.com/PeterDeCosemoEquestrian?fref=ts

*jumps on Auslander*

Only kidding... no I agreed previously with your views on it. However, I don't agree with your chap about starting horses before 4 for money... not all horses are for money... I certainly am not looking to gain anything other than a well educated riding horse for myself.

3yo is not too early to be introduced to life being a beast of burden. We have to remember these are captive animals and unless you have a hundred acres of land in which the horse can exercise itself with a herd, then, exercise (mentally & physically) is very important at this age.

I don't agree with "working" horses before 4 and in the same breath I don't agree with horses being started at 4 but having everything thrown at them all at once.

A sympathetic and caring balance has to be struck between getting a horse accustomed to our wants, it's physiological development and it's mental wellbeing so in this case I am a fan of starting horses over a couple of years rather than doing everything at 4.
 
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MIne was 4...my old boy was 3 and wish I had waited until he was 5....or 15!!!:D

Some interesting notes/research here that made me think very hard about what I am doing with my rising 6 year old at the moment
Dr. Deb Bennett is a 1984 graduate of the University of Kansas, and until 1992 was on the staff of the Smithsonian Institution. Her degree is in Vertebrate Paleontology, which emphasizes the anatomy and biomechanics of fossil animals. Dr. Bennett is known as an authority on the classification, evolution, anatomy, and biomechanics of fossil and living horses. Her research interests also include the history of domestication and of individual horse breeds.


"Owners and trainers need to realize there's a definite, easy-to-remember schedule of fusion - and then make their decision as to when to ride the horse based on that rather than on the external appearance of the horse.
For there are some breeds of horse - the Quarter Horse is the premier among these - which have been bred in such a manner as to LOOK mature long before they actually ARE mature. This puts these horses in jeopardy from people who are either ignorant of the closure schedule, or more interested in their own schedule (for futurities or other competitions) than they are in the welfare of the animal.

The process of fusion goes from the bottom up. In other words, the
lower down toward the hoofs you look, the earlier the growth plates will have fused; and the higher up toward the animal's back you look, the later. The growth plate at the top of the coffin bone (the most distal bone of the limb) is fused at birth. What this means is that the coffin bones get no TALLER after birth (they get much larger around, though, by another mechanism). That's the first one. In order after that:

2. Short pastern - top & bottom between birth and 6 mos.
3. Long pastern - top & bottom between 6 mos. And 1 yr.
4. Cannon bone - top & bottom between 8 mos. And 1.5 yrs.
5. Small bones of knee - top & bottom on each, between 1.5 and 2.5 yrs.
6. Bottom of radius-ulna - between 2 and 2.5 yrs.
7. Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius - between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
8. Humerus - top & bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
9. Scapula - glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion - between 3.5 and 4 yrs.
10. Hindlimb - lower portions same as forelimb
11. Hock - this joint is "late" for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial & fibular tarsals don't fuse until the animal is four (so
the hocks are a known "weak point" - even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks)
12. Tibia - top & bottom, between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
13. Femur - bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.; neck, between 3.5 and 4 yrs.; major and 3rd trochanters, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
14. Pelvis - growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 yrs.

and what do you think is last? The vertebral column, of course. A
normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum.

These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 1/2 years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later full fusion will occur. And for a male - is this a surprise? -- You add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand TB or Saddlebred or WB gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year - something that
owners of such individuals have often told me that they "suspected" ).

The lateness of vertebral "closure" is most significant for two
reasons.
One: in no limb are there 32 growth plates!
Two: The growth plates in the limbs are (more or less) oriented perpendicular to the stress of the load passing through them, while those of the vertebral chain are oriented parallel to weight placed upon the horse's back.

Bottom line: you can sprain a horse's back (i.e., displace the
vertebral growth plates) a lot more easily than you can sprain those located in the limbs.

And here's another little fact: within the chain of vertebrae, the
last to fully "close" are those at the base of the animal's neck
(that's why the long-necked individual may go past 6 yrs. to achieve
full maturity). So you also have to be careful - very careful - not to
yank the neck around on your young horse, or get him in any situation where he strains his neck."

Dr. Deb Bennett :)
 
Just to add , I am not Dr Deb Bennett...and she didn't add the smiley at the end of her research, that is me being rubbish at computers:D
 
I wonder whether anyone (veterinary unversity, racing authorities) would compile statistics on the correlation between racehorses being backed as yearlings/2yo's and later presenting with Kissing Spines. We had one here, a fabulously generous 5 yr old who had to be PTS he was so bad.
The real answer to backing too young (I use the term backing as it is the weight bearing that does the damage IMO) would be for the racing authorities to dispense with classic races for 3 year olds who need to show their potential even earlier. Any time you ask an inexperienced person who has ridden a 2 year old pony they will say it's okay because they do it with racehorses.
Dr Deb Bennett is well known for her research and knowledge, which clearly demonstates it is storing up problems to weigh bear too young, yet another forum I go on decided to counter her research with their own OPINIONS - sort of sums up the horse world really.
 
I backed my pony at rising 4 but did very little with her, mainly long reining with very short loose rein walk when riding until she was 4. and no fast work until she was 5.

TBH I would have left it another 6 months but was being helped by RI/YO and were moving 550 miles away to somewhere with no stables and no facilities for doing the early work. She didn't grow any more height wise after 3 tho I know that's not the only factor and she was still growing.

Shes now 9 and has never had any hint of problems. Hopefully she wont.
 
I start all my youngsters at 3.5yeara old. Spend about two months long reining then hack them until the depths of winter and give them jan -march off than start again in april by this point they are pretty much 4. They don't touch a sand school until 4 - everything is done on grass untill then so that being ridden on grass is not exciting. By the way none of the (8) horses I've started have kissing spines!
 
Ive given up sharing my views on starting horses too early, as I always get jumped on - but there are some thought provoking words here. https://www.facebook.com/PeterDeCosemoEquestrian?fref=ts

Interesting read that, thank you. I do disagree with him on one point though. He says the only reason people start horses younger than 4 is for money. Well what if, like me, you have a gorgeous, well moving, floaty, trusting, sweet 2 yo, who I am itching to start, and don't like the prospect of waiting another 2 years before getting on him! :D :D

However, obviously, his long term health is far more important to me, and I of course will wait as long as I can before the urge to jump on his golden back becomes too much for me :D ;)

Seriously though, in an ideal world, I think everyone should wait as long as possible, but remember we do not live in an ideal world. It is a capitalist system where money literally makes the world go round.
 
*jumps on Auslander*

Only kidding... no I agreed previously with your views on it. However, I don't agree with your chap about starting horses before 4 for money... not all horses are for money... I certainly am not looking to gain anything other than a well educated riding horse for myself.

3yo is not too early to be introduced to life being a beast of burden. We have to remember these are captive animals and unless you have a hundred acres of land in which the horse can exercise itself with a herd, then, exercise (mentally & physically) is very important at this age.

I don't agree with "working" horses before 4 and in the same breath I don't agree with horses being started at 4 but having everything thrown at them all at once.

A sympathetic and caring balance has to be struck between getting a horse accustomed to our wants, it's physiological development and it's mental wellbeing so in this case I am a fan of starting horses over a couple of years rather than doing everything at 4.

This, 100%. Everyone always quotes the Dr Deb article as if she is advocating leaving horses untouched in fields till they are 7. That's not it at all, and indeed if you read the whole article it gives some context: http://herddynamics.wordpress.com/t...tal-maturation-in-horses-by-deb-bennett-ph-d/ In fact she finishes with the exact same approach as Tallyho:

Bottom line: if you are one of those who equates “starting” with “riding”, then I guess you better not start your horse until he’s four. That would be the old, traditional, worldwide view: introduce the horse to equipment (all kinds of equipment and situations) when he’s two, crawl on and off of him at three, saddle him to begin riding him and teaching him to guide at four, start teaching him maneuvers or the basics of whatever job he’s going to do – cavalletti or stops or something beyond trailing cattle – at five, and he’s on the payroll at six. The old Spanish way of bitting reflected this also, because the horse’s teeth aren’t mature (the tushes haven’t come in, nor all of the permanent cheek teeth either) until he’s six.= This is what I’d do if it were my own horse. I’m at liberty to do that because I’m not on anybody else’s schedule except my horse’s own schedule. I’m not a participant in futurities or planning to be. Are you? If you are, well, that’s your business. But most horse owners aren’t futurity competitors. Please ask yourself: is there any reason that you have to be riding that particular horse before he’s four?

When I say “start” a horse I do not equate that with riding him. To start a young horse well is one of the finest tests (and proofs) of superior horsemanship. Anyone who does not know how to start a horse cannot know how to finish one. You, the owner, therefore have the following as a minimum list of enjoyable “things to accomplish” together with your young horse before he’s four years old, when you do start him under saddle:

Comfortable being touched all over. Comfortable: not put-upon nor merely tolerating, but really looking forward to it.
This includes interior of mouth, muzzle, jowls, ears, sheath/udder, tail, front and hind feet. Pick ‘em up and they should be floppy.
Knows how to lead up. No fear; no attempt to flee; no drag in the feet; knows that it’s his job to keep slack in the line all the time.
Manners enough to lead at your shoulder, stop or go when he sees your body get ready to stop or go; if he spooks, does not jump toward or onto you, will not enter your space unless he’s specifically invited to do so.
Leads through gate or into stall without charging.
Knows how to tie, may move to the side when spooked but keeps slack in the line all the time.
Knows how to be ponied.
Carries smooth nonleverage bit in mouth. Lowers head and opens mouth when asked to take the bit; when unbridled, lowers head and spits the bit out himself.
Will work with a drag (tarp, sack half filled with sand, light tire, or sledge and harness).
Mounts drum or sturdy stand with front feet.
Free longes – comes when called and responds calmly to being driven forward; relaxed and eager.
When driven, leaves without any sign of fleeing; when stopped, plants hind feet and coils loins; does not depend on back-drag from your hand to stop him.
Familiar with saddle, saddle blanket, and being girthed and accepts it quietly.
Backs easily, quietly and straight in hand, “one step at a time”.
Loads quietly in horse trailer, unloads by stepping backwards from inside horse trailer without rearing or rushing.
Various people might like to add to this list. Please feel free, just so long as what you’re asking your young horse isn’t more than he can physically do. Getting the horse “100% OK” mentally and emotionally – those are the big areas in successful early training; most of the physical and athletic skills can come later, when it is fitting.

Nb Mine was very very lightly backed at 3,5. We introduced light lunging and long reining, and he learned to ride and lead and meet scary things. Then I rode him all of about 8 times for about 15 minutes a time, mostly walk with two short trots. He's had the winter off and now we're starting up again, but we'll only be playing at things this year and probably next too. It is such a fine balance.
 
I started all mine at three .
If they are late season foals they are started late in the year so they where always fully three years old when I started.
They will be lead and long riened in walk learning basic manners and the voice commands .
Their " work " session where short I was always taught no session should be longer that it takes to tack up although clearly that's a " saying" rather than a concrete rule the intention is that session must be very short but at times I would do ten mins twice daily.
they would do trot on the lunge be backed lead round ridden lunged ridden and be introduced to being ridden away and do a few very short walking hacks.
They would some very low impact pole work towards the end .
And perhaps a loose jump once perhaps twice just to see.
I often would leave cantering till four but if the moment came I would let it happen.
Work session would be 30mins perhaps slightly longer for the few walking hacks at the end .
The horses where then turned away.
I don't believe it harms if senestively done in a mindful way however I think the hot house training of some young sport horses is detrimental and leading to a huge amount of wastage.
 
Tallyho has my view. I really despise those wait til 4 and throw everything at them all at once. And the equally as bad, you are now a competition horse so no more turnout for you.

This whole KS stuff is ridiculous. It's injury du jour at the moment. Let me explain this again. When you have never done any work with racehorses it's easy to say, yup all bad. Straight line work is easier on a horse than have to be in perfect contact and circling. And don't get me started on gadgets young. I suggest all of you do some reading on Science Of Motion website and start really thinking about what we ask of horses. And not just a magic age.

This is what people don't get. 4 is a magic number because of joint fusion. My god people it's so much more to keep one sound long term. Bone needs certain stress to become stronger. Sittimg out in a field getting fat or worse a young horse muzzled living in a tiny paddock to keep the weight off. Honestly you'd be doing them a favor doing careful structured work to keep the metabolism going and getting them stronger.

And KS is not a racehorse thing exclusively. I'd say some cases are not from racing at all. Poorly fitted tack, ignorance on riders in proper fittening, draw reins because they must work in frame, endless arena riding and circling. Plenty of racers excelling in other careers without KS.

Terri

ps my 3yo is 3 and 2 months. She will start very light work in June. She will then get a little more in the autumn and then again at the tail end of winter.
 
I started all mine at three .
If they are late season foals they are started late in the year so they where always fully three years old when I started.
They will be lead and long riened in walk learning basic manners and the voice commands .
Their " work " session where short I was always taught no session should be longer that it takes to tack up although clearly that's a " saying" rather than a concrete rule the intention is that session must be very short but at times I would do ten mins twice daily.
they would do trot on the lunge be backed lead round ridden lunged ridden and be introduced to being ridden away and do a few very short walking hacks.
They would some very low impact pole work towards the end .
And perhaps a loose jump once perhaps twice just to see.
I often would leave cantering till four but if the moment came I would let it happen.
Work session would be 30mins perhaps slightly longer for the few walking hacks at the end .
The horses where then turned away.
I don't believe it harms if senestively done in a mindful way however I think the hot house training of some young sport horses is detrimental and leading to a huge amount of wastage.

This is my approach too .
 
I start all at 3 (unless special circumstances mean they are left). They do basic walk, trot, pop into canter, go for a walk down the roads and then are turned away to be left till 4. I find letting them sit for a year in the field after the initial backing makes them very steady and relaxed about ridden life. The initial backing process has never taken me long, I find it has worked well for the horses.

I am also 8.5 stone and talking horses 15h+

Much more damage is done by people who have no idea what is key when backing regardless of age of horse. I have had to ride some with major issues because the rider who backed the horse had no idea about the principles of training and starting, it's quite amazing how quickly you can damage a horses mind set in just the first few weeks.
 
My Youngster is almost 3 (in a couple of weeks)
I have started bitting her, introducing her to a roller, and a saddle.
She will lead, tie up, pick feet up etc. Am still working on her being comfortable with me touching her everywhere but getting better.
As she was almost untouched when I got her, I am also introducing her to traffic and things like that by walking her out in hand.

I have long reined maybe 2 or 3 times, and put her on the lunge on a large circle for about 2 mins on each rein, twice in total.

I am planning on getting her used to alot of things before I think about backing her, which will be this time next year, when she is 4.
 
My 2 yo is physically very mature - literally everyone who meets him thinks he's a good year older than he really is. However mentally he's a big baby and though he looks big and strong everything is still growing and fusing. Therefore he will start long reining next summer at 3. I will probably back him in the autumn to the extent he will have been sat on and done a few minutes of ambling about. I will probably get him going in harness at the same time. Then he will be turned away with the odd driven hack and in-hand work until the summer after. Then I'll re-back and start light work.

I really don't intend to anything more than lightly hack until he's 5. He will be with me for life and I'd like to think I'll still be riding him in his late twenties.
 
Mine was backed at 3 by his previous owner. I turned him away immediately after I bought him for nearly two years as he just didn't look mature at all and I wanted him to be a baby.

I am in no rush as he will be with me for life and I'm not competitive, he's my hack and we will have fun together.

Due to my circumstances I've only just started to hack him out. That's all we do. He's happy and keen and a real star. He's five and a half. :)
 
Ride him no, but introduce tack, long rein, take out for walks on my hacking routes yes, I'm figuring I'll just know when the time is right to get up :p
this is he 3yrs 1 month
165449_10151438924137219_1044937721_n.jpg
 
My boy is chunky and knocking on 16hh coloured beast, he's been tacked up since a 2 yr old and been taken out for walks in hand for 10 mins, he is going to be 3 on 28th May and he is taken out once a week for a ride for about 30 mins in walk only, absolutely no trotting, our vet who is a we known equine surgeon, says we should be doing this with him and advices we long rein as much as we want, every day for as far as we can walk if we want ( which we don't) our boy is so sturdy he doesn't even adjust his weight when you sit on him and walking for 30 mins is no different than him pounding around the fields. He thorougly enjoys his outings ( has had 4 so far) and isn't phased by traffic etc, I think it's all about using common sense, ps he has never been lunged, think that would be far more harmful than pottering out for a couple miles:D
 
I backed my cob at 3 and a half turned her away for winter then brought her back into work for a few months and then had to turn her away for another 10 months due to my pregnancy!! shes now 5 and come back loads stronger and much more mature.
I was going to back my welshie whos 3 this year but its looking unlikely at the moment as he still looks very immature, i think he has gone a bit backward after having his operation. . Will see how he is in the autumn. If hes still looking immature will leave till spring. As long as it takes!!
 
Maybe it would help if there could be a clear distinction between "starting" and "backing".

The starting I'm all for, but the backing?
Have to ask why.

What is there that is so important about the few times people describe getting on board?
Is there any evidence that having done all the groundwork, if that's not followed up by somebody getting on board at that time, it somehow negates the progress?

What happens if there is no getting on board before the turn away that people say they always do?
If the ridden work is so minor (and reading here people keep on saying it is, ten minutes, a little walk, a gentle hack no more than 1/2 hour ect.) does it really make so much difference to let it wait until rising four.
 
Mines just turned two and I am just in the process of making him listen to my commands ie stand, walk on and trot on as we want to do in hand showing. He can be tied up not making a fuss, groom him all over, pick all 4 feet up without fuss and put rug on and off :) oh and perfect for farrier :) I'm a proud mum lol defo won't start doing anything more than what I'm doing allready till he's 3 :)
 
I started mine at three, but literally just that - started. He was bitted, taught to lunge and long rein, wore a saddle and bridle and had a small lightweight rider sit on him. He then had some time off, and now at four he is starting to actually be ridden for short periods. This year I plan on hacking out and doing short schooling sessions, aiming to do some unaff. prelim classes by the end of summer. He is very big and immature, and I wouldn't have felt comfortable doing any real work with him at three.
 
Most of mine have been started at around 3 years old. Some a little earlier, some a little later, depends on the individual horse. It's common where I come from for a lot of people to start their youngsters at some point in their second year and I've done that also with one or two of them. One of the differences here though is that people will start their horses much younger than most of you in the UK but they are started over a very long period of time, ie 8 months or longer so they aren't 'working' they are more just pootling around for the first year or so. Interestingly there seem to be little problems from what I see around these parts and it's VERY common to see very old horses in their 20s and 30s still doing big long trail rides and the odd show. Although I have to say having struggled with trying to find the answer as to why we have such longevity for ridden horses here I have come to the conclusion that it is because they are not fed all these fabby feeds, nor are they shod. More and more I'm thinking that the feed you give and the shoeing are more than likely a greater cause of horses breaking down so readily than at whatever age you decide to lightly back them.
 
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