Who is in charge?

[FMM]

Do you think it is possible for a horse (or any animal) to do something that is not natural behaviour, without human direction?

For example, a horse being ridden in walk in a field, to suddenly take off and jump a fence in the middle of the field without the rider directing it in any way? In fact, supposedly with the rider trying to make the horse do the complete opposite.

Or (another example) a dog, again with no direction from anyone, to go round a dog agility course, for example with no intervention from its handler. Just going for a walk and then suddenly doing the bending thing through some trees ...

I have seen loose horses jump obstacles in fields, but never, on their own, jump a proper fence. And never seen one jump a random fence in the field with a rider on board ...

Or have I just been unlucky?

 

[Snowysadude]

Well when horses take off or bolt with a rider they often jump things that get in the way and just panic run as I found out the hard way. My dog takes himself over jumps when he feels like it (but never when you tell him!! Cheeky dog)

 

[tinap]

This is honestly true - at a local Friday night show there was this old bloke who was there every week without fail - 1 week he headed in to do his jump off, jumped fence 1 then fell off. His horse then proceeded to jump the rest of the JO course on its own, pass through the lights then stop & start grazing!!! It was bizarre!!!! To be fair the course was the same every week - but still - insane!!!

 

[Tnavas]

My filly jumps fences in her paddock - she also pops over the gate when it suits too.

 

[*hic*]

I have one very special old boy. He's been a fantastic jumper but we bought him to save him from going for meat. We didn't know about his jumping.

My novice and pretty much non-jumping daughter walked him up to our new, one and only, very smart looking showjump which was put up in the field at about 3'. He's very funny about new things and she just wimbled over for him to have a look and a sniff of it so that he hopefully wouldn't spook too much at it when she was riding him round. He took her completely by surprise and pinged over it, luckily she stayed on board.

When she eventually took him to her first show ever about a year later she still wasn't jumping more than 18 inches. She took him round the clear round and he seemed to be happy so we entered them in the smallest class. She and the pony went and stood by the ring, with the pony taking great interest in the proceedings in the ring. When it was their turn they went in, he cantered round and then suddenly stopped and cantered on the spot, to her great consternation, then the bell went and he was off, over one, smart turn to two and three, it wasn't until about fence 4 that she made any attempt to steer him. He'd worked out where the start line was and stopped just behind it, waiting for the bell and then knew the course all the way round. He was SO pleased with himself.

I've ridden him myself. If you want to get "your" round you mustn't let him watch or he WILL learn the course.

The sad thing about all this is that this pony, that is so clever and hardly ever touches a jump, has been badly abused and has so many problems in his head that he was nearly sent for meat. He's been safe with us for ten years, is now retired and if we have another ten years of his funny ways it won't be long enough.

 

[MrsMozart]

I have one very special old boy. He's been a fantastic jumper but we bought him to save him from going for meat. We didn't know about his jumping.

My novice and pretty much non-jumping daughter walked him up to our new, one and only, very smart looking showjump which was put up in the field at about 3'. He's very funny about new things and she just wimbled over for him to have a look and a sniff of it so that he hopefully wouldn't spook too much at it when she was riding him round. He took her completely by surprise and pinged over it, luckily she stayed on board.

When she eventually took him to her first show ever about a year later she still wasn't jumping more than 18 inches. She took him round the clear round and he seemed to be happy so we entered them in the smallest class. She and the pony went and stood by the ring, with the pony taking great interest in the proceedings in the ring. When it was their turn they went in, he cantered round and then suddenly stopped and cantered on the spot, to her great consternation, then the bell went and he was off, over one, smart turn to two and three, it wasn't until about fence 4 that she made any attempt to steer him. He'd worked out where the start line was and stopped just behind it, waiting for the bell and then knew the course all the way round. He was SO pleased with himself.

I've ridden him myself. If you want to get "your" round you mustn't let him watch or he WILL learn the course.

The sad thing about all this is that this pony, that is so clever and hardly ever touches a jump, has been badly abused and has so many problems in his head that he was nearly sent for meat. He's been safe with us for ten years, is now retired and if we have another ten years of his funny ways it won't be long enough.

That has brought a smile to my face (the cantering on the spot and learning the course, and the fact that he has a home for a long and settled life ).

 

[Sheep]

Love the story about the old boy- sounds like a great character.

I had a pony who couldn't bloody jump at all, he used to stop and sort of either throw himself over it, or delicately step over, one leg at a time. So decided he should at least learn how to co-ordinate himself, he'll never be a great jumper but thought it was important for him to learn. So we did some jumping on the lunge, his coordination improved immensely. We usually stuck to v short sessions on the lunge, followed by a bit of loose schooling to let him stretch out (and improve his ability to strike off on the right leg on the right rein.. that's another story!).

Anyway on more than one occasion he would happily take himself over the jumps of his own accord! I promise this occurred with absolutely no coercion on my part.. I would use my voice to send him on and slow him down when he was loose, each time he decided to jump by himself I was nowhere near him. Really made me laugh!

 

[soulfull]

That has brought a smile to my face (the cantering on the spot and learning the course, and the fact that he has a home for a long and settled life ).

Echo this bless him

Friend has a 12.2 pony that schools himself in the field. He trots figure of 8's does 20m circles, halt rein back and then carries on grazing Of course I never really believed it until I saw it

I let a friend ride my last horse in the school he decided to go over the jump, she said she tried to stop him, I believe she half heartily tried as she had never left the ground before and he certainly under normal circumstance would not be the one you chose to do your first ever jump on

 

[monkeybum13]

When one of my instructors was eventing her horse pecked on landing, stumbled and she came out the side door. Before fence judges could catch the horse he trotted around and jumped the fence again, on his own to show he could do it!

 

[Dubsie]

Our NF jumps the fence (for more grass) , and I have seen him jump the log in our field because it was a shorter cut to the field shelter where I'd just put hay (the other pony took the route to the side of the log and he wasn't going to be beaten). He also self-loads into the trailer because there is hay - this is kind of cool at a show when you are parked next to the one that won't load - where you unclip the lead rope from his headcollar, he walks in you close the back then go to the front and clip him in. He also loves jumping, and when a bit greener and daughter less in control he'd jump the round - and then, being a bit excited, carry on over anything he could jump. She'd have to point him in to a corner if she could to stop.

Fairly sure in the wild he'd act as any wild animal and do whatever necessary so long as there's food to be gained, this pony thinks with his stomach!

 

[JanetGeorge]

I have a 3 year old colt who LOVES jumping. If you're loose schooling him in the manege and there's a jump set up (and it's never on the outside track) he will take himself to it and pop over - and most times turn back and jump it again (while I'm still up the other end!) It's quite entertaining!

 

[FMM]

I love these stories! Particularly about the abused pony

However, I assume none of these would have jumped had the rider been on board telling the horse not to go over the fence?

What I am getting at is that I don't think a horse can make the decision to go over a fence in the middle of the field if its rider does not want him to!

 

[tinap]

Does it count if in a class & pony tanks towards any jump & pops it even if rider is trying everything to not jump it?? cos that had happened to my daughter quite a lot!!!!!

 

[fidleyspromise]

when I had not long backed my highland and was schooling in the jumping paddock, she had never been over a jump and she just went as cool as you please up to one of the fillers and popped over it. To me, it was a case of "if you want to do it, I won't make you but I won't stop you either".

J_M - Thats amazing. I've never heard of a horse learning a course without going round by itself first.

 

[JanetGeorge]

However, I assume none of these would have jumped had the rider been on board telling the horse not to go over the fence?

What I am getting at is that I don't think a horse can make the decision to go over a fence in the middle of the field if its rider does not want him to!

Actually, I had a mare once (not mine - but part of work) who WOULD THROW herself at any fence she put her eye on even when that was the last thing the rider (me) wanted! And if you tried to stop her she'd go vertical! It was most disconcerting and took months of reschooling to stop!!

It wasn't because she enjoyed jumping though - she was scared of being abused for NOT jumping. I would guess she'd been over-bitted, and then stopped, and then been beaten for stopping. So EVERY jump in sight was to be jumped as fast as possible. Even a pole on the ground was jumped at speed and cleared by feet!

 

[ahashake3]

some of these stories are amazing, made me smile aaw bless em

 

[ruth83]

There is a horse at one of the local riding schools which is a good old push me pull you for the novice riders. HOWEVER if teaching novices you have to be careful to dismantle any fences in the school as the mare occasionally gets bored (especially if the rider is the sort who thinks they know how to ride and flaps their legs around etc) and tottles off over the jump in a very polite canter!

 

[Puppy]

I have one very special old boy. He's been a fantastic jumper but we bought him to save him from going for meat. We didn't know about his jumping.

My novice and pretty much non-jumping daughter walked him up to our new, one and only, very smart looking showjump which was put up in the field at about 3'. He's very funny about new things and she just wimbled over for him to have a look and a sniff of it so that he hopefully wouldn't spook too much at it when she was riding him round. He took her completely by surprise and pinged over it, luckily she stayed on board.

When she eventually took him to her first show ever about a year later she still wasn't jumping more than 18 inches. She took him round the clear round and he seemed to be happy so we entered them in the smallest class. She and the pony went and stood by the ring, with the pony taking great interest in the proceedings in the ring. When it was their turn they went in, he cantered round and then suddenly stopped and cantered on the spot, to her great consternation, then the bell went and he was off, over one, smart turn to two and three, it wasn't until about fence 4 that she made any attempt to steer him. He'd worked out where the start line was and stopped just behind it, waiting for the bell and then knew the course all the way round. He was SO pleased with himself.

I've ridden him myself. If you want to get "your" round you mustn't let him watch or he WILL learn the course.

The sad thing about all this is that this pony, that is so clever and hardly ever touches a jump, has been badly abused and has so many problems in his head that he was nearly sent for meat. He's been safe with us for ten years, is now retired and if we have another ten years of his funny ways it won't be long enough.

He's such a clever little chap!! Bless him.

 

[Flame_]

I used to ride a couple of hunters for the owner of a livery yard I used to stable at. They put in a horsewalker in a little paddock you had to walk through to get from the yard to the riding arena.

I got on this hunter in the yard as usual to ride to the arena, went into the paddock to turn right down one side of the walker to the school but this horse took exception to the walker, and instead of turning around like any normal horse, he set off merrily through the paddock in a perfect but un-alterable canter down the left hand of the walker, locked on to the big metal gate at the bottom and cleared it expertly, before letting me turn him in a loop around that field and bring him back. Thankfully this time someone opened the gate.

He was fab, something like clydesdale x something a lot more athletic, and you couldn't tell him what to do when he knew better.

 

[ester]

There are 2 western videos on youtube (I can't find them again ) both horses are riderless, one runs poles on its own another runs a barrel pattern.

 

[Suziq77]

I love these stories! Particularly about the abused pony

However, I assume none of these would have jumped had the rider been on board telling the horse not to go over the fence?

What I am getting at is that I don't think a horse can make the decision to go over a fence in the middle of the field if its rider does not want him to!

I think I saw a thread in CR about how to stop young eventers "locking on" to a fence? Which would suggest it might be a problem for some horses, but I don't know...interesting question....

ps - when I saw the title of this thread it made me laugh as I often find myself saying "who's in charge? i'll give you a clue - it's not you" to my cheeky mare when she tries to march me to and from her field and around the yard (I'm short, she's powerful and sometimes forgets I don't weigh much)

 

[Burnttoast]

My mate's horse came off the lorry at a show, got loose and came to join me (I was riding his stablemate) in the warmup - rope trailing, boots and rug on, made a detour to jump the warmup fence before he got to me....

Same horse got loose (pattern emerging here ) when being readied to go on lorry to vet's for an annular ligament op - went into arena and jumped fences set up there. Prat.

Many years ago knew a lovely horse that used to jump out if he was on his own, but he would always warm up over a log in the field first - circle, log, circle, fence... Very funny to watch.

 

[MrsMozart]

I love these stories! Particularly about the abused pony

However, I assume none of these would have jumped had the rider been on board telling the horse not to go over the fence?

What I am getting at is that I don't think a horse can make the decision to go over a fence in the middle of the field if its rider does not want him to!

I think maybe they can

Many moons ago, D1 was doing grids with Little Cob. He'd just go the hang of it and was pinging away happily. D1 turned up the school to go over again, but early on wasn't happy with the approach, so went to turn him away. Pony had other ideas and took her to the jumps, with her trying to turn (and by this stage laughing a lot). He went down the grid in a nice rhythm and seemed very pleased with himself

 

[marley and danni]

hi!

well my TB like to do what he wants lol! i was schooling the other week getting ready for my dressage test in a few weeks time and another girl with her TB put a jump up and was just about get on board her horse and i cantered past the jump( the jumps on a diagonal off the track, 3ft high) the 2nd time i tried to go past it he grabbed the big and hurteled towards it and i tried everything to stop him didnt work he jumped it anyway after that he didnt try again... i do jump him regularly think he likes to jump more than i think

 

[PolarSkye]

I would guess she'd been over-bitted, and then stopped, and then been beaten for stopping. So EVERY jump in sight was to be jumped as fast as possible. Even a pole on the ground was jumped at speed and cleared by feet!

I went to try a horse like that . . . fell off when it bolted towards and them jumped some poles on the ground - clearing them by a good 4 foot. Didn't buy it.

P

 

[Kat]

Pony I used to ride in the riding school when I was a child would jump the XC fences for fun if she was turned out in a field with jumps in. Fairly big fences for a 13.2hh!

I also once jumped her in a lesson and because another horse was running out the instructor put a pole from the wing to the arena fence to prevent run outs. When it was my turn she jumped the pole between the wing and fence instead despite my best efforts to jump the proper jump. She liked to show off, she only did it because it was much bigger than the main jump!

 

[PolarSkye]

Well, we have cross country fences in our turnout fields - I've seen at least two of the horses jumping them (riderless - w/ turnout rugs on) for fun.

As to whether a horse will jump a fence if the rider doesn't want it too - I've seen some of our ponies do that when the wee ones were riding (on the flat) in the arena with jumps still left up. Poor kids didn't stand a chance - pony locked on and was going.

P

 

[Charlie007]

I know of a girl who was riding round the school practising with no stirrups and as she came round one corner the horse shot left and jumped the post and rail fence!! She wasn't even facing the fence!!

And as a previous poster, my old pony threw the girl off who was riding him then carried on jumping the jumps she was attempting to jump!! There were 4 jumps set up and he just cantered round and jumped them all several times!!

 

[RunToEarth]

We have a 32year old ex hunter, she is happy in the field pottering about with the cows most of the time.
However, she hates driving rain, always has done, and the field offers little shelter for it since it was divided. She will stand making noise at the gate for a short while, if no one comes to get her she will jump hop over the lowest part of the wall and put herself in her stable.
She is worth her weight in diamonds, it will be a very sad day when she leaves us.

 

[scarymare]

I love these stories! Particularly about the abused pony

However, I assume none of these would have jumped had the rider been on board telling the horse not to go over the fence?

What I am getting at is that I don't think a horse can make the decision to go over a fence in the middle of the field if its rider does not want him to!

Oh yes they can..... My black cob was being ridden by my sister in law (complete novice). She couldn't steer so he just took himself over the fence which was on the centre line. Believe me she was trying to stop him. Obviously had she have been competent then she could have stopped but he defo chose to ignore her!