Whose responsible? Fractured collar bone....

Hippona

Hippona

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Teenager at the yard broke her collar bone at the weekend...pony slipped on the arena + fell- she fell off, landed on her shoulder and pony rolled over her.

Luckily all pretty much ok.

Now.....the arena surface is pretty pants- it can get rock-hard or become very slippy. IMO....if its crap then I just don't use it...common sense really.

Yard stirrer is saying its YO fault...that if the arena is there she has a duty to make sure its safe to ride on....this is probably true, but she is encouraging mother of injured teenager to sue. Most likely she is thinking this will lead to the arena being surfaced properly, but I feel this will probably back-fire and we will be told we can't use it at all. Yard stirrer is well known for firing people up to complain about stuff, but won't actually front YO herself.

Opinions? Anyone know the true legal facts? Where does YO stand?

Coffe and buns all round.
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but she is encouraging mother of injured teenager to sue. Most likely she is thinking this will lead to the arena being surfaced properly

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Most likely it will result in a bankrupt YO, and you'll all be looking for a new yard.......
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My opinion would be as yours - if you know it's crap, then use it taking the surface conditions into account - as you should in any situation, or don't use it all.
I doubt any action would result in surface being redone, more likely yard owner go pretty mucy bankrupt from any legal action and all liveries having to look elsewhere pronto!
Horse riding can be dangerous - live with it or get a hamster! (That advice is to stroppy stirrer, not you by the way!).
 
TBH i think yes the YO has a duty of care to make sure the arena was fit for its purpose, but the teenager made the decision to ride in it knowing it could be slipper etc. If she wasnt made aware of this fact and then the accident happened they would have a case. But as it stands they are unlikely to have one. TBH i think it is silly everyone wants to sue for everything. Horse riding is dangerous and all that will happen is increased premiums and more businesses go into liquidation. I am not sayign some cases are not right going to court, if there was a clear ignorance to the health and safety of others, then there might be a case, but no there really isnt one.

It annoys me that people sue for anything nowadays because the people that should sue due to other reasosn are branded gold diggers like those who think that tripping over a leaf means they should get £10,000.
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TBH i think yes the YO has a duty of care to make sure the arena was fit for its purpose, but the teenager made the decision to ride in it knowing it could be slipper etc. If she wasnt made aware of this fact and then the accident happened they would have a case. But as it stands they are unlikely to have one. TBH i think it is silly everyone wants to sue for everything. Horse riding is dangerous and all that will happen is increased premiums and more businesses go into liquidation. I am not sayign some cases are not right going to court, if there was a clear ignorance to the health and safety of others, then there might be a case, but no there really isnt one.

It annoys me that people sue for anything nowadays because the people that should sue due to other reasosn are branded gold diggers like those who think that tripping over a leaf means they should get £10,000.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this... Lets leave suing to the Americans and people who really do need it (lost a leg by a drunk driver mounting the pavement)
 
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TBH i think yes the YO has a duty of care to make sure the arena was fit for its purpose, but the teenager made the decision to ride in it knowing it could be slipper etc. If she wasnt made aware of this fact and then the accident happened they would have a case. But as it stands they are unlikely to have one. TBH i think it is silly everyone wants to sue for everything. Horse riding is dangerous and all that will happen is increased premiums and more businesses go into liquidation. I am not sayign some cases are not right going to court, if there was a clear ignorance to the health and safety of others, then there might be a case, but no there really isnt one.

It annoys me that people sue for anything nowadays because the people that should sue due to other reasosn are branded gold diggers like those who think that tripping over a leaf means they should get £10,000.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this... Lets leave suing to the Americans and people who really do need it (lost a leg by a drunk driver mounting the pavement)

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yey someone agrees with me
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If the teenager was going to be permanetly disabled, then she might have a claim, but seeing her age and the nature of the break means that she will make a full recovery, should should chalk it up to experience.
 
I have the same opinion as OP and the other posters. How old was the teenager?? YO could turn around and say the teenagers parents should have been there to ensure their child was safe to ride.
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Unfortunately though, it sounds like you have a yard where you have the type of stirrer there, that likes to upset everyone stirring things up, and st

ands back to watch the chaos (s)he has caused!!
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The farmer at our yard was very conscious of this type of scenario health and saftey wise, with the likelihood of being sued, so we have rules set in place if the paddock is wet it goes on 'red' means stop and you're NOT allowed to ride in it until it's on 'green' means go - you are allowed!! We have a contract we sign which outlines the health and safety rules such as this! I hope things work out for your yard xx
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Pathetic in my opinion. You risk riding horses, one day you WILL fall off and it could hurt. If in any doubt at all then don't bloody well bother. I despise the sueing culture that we now live in and it's causing the loss of so many small decent schools who simply can't afford the insurance or the claims or the red tape.

Is the horse owned by teenager?
 
Sooo, if YO is sued and loses a packet of money, where does the stirrer think the cash is going to come from to resurface the arena?
I'm with the other posters; if the rider and her parents knew the surface was dodgy when wet, then they assume responsibility for riding on it.
I've been to shows here when it's been wet and the arena has been slippery. This is common knowledge, yet several people fell because they were going too fast for the conditions. Totally their own fault and they knew it!
 
She's 15....has 2 horses on the yard. Rule is 12 year old and under has to have adult supervision.

TBH her mum is a nice sensible sort who also rides, so I think she will take it as 'accidents happen' and leave it at that.
I would never have thought of sueing- or threatening to....I would have put it down to my own fault for riding when the conditions were not so good.

I think its yard stirrer doing exactly that....just stirring and mouthing off...as usual
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Is there any sort of contract in place? If so it will spell it out I expect.

If not, I'd have thought it is a case of "you ride at your own peril and accidents will be treated as such, accidents"....


I'd be nasty and let YO know that YS is at the mix and hope that YO confronts YS over it...then I'd book a seat for the ensuing battle, if I were you...

God who'd be a YO???
 
why did the horse slip? Because the surface was rubbish or was she charging flat out round the corners (or similar!!) Any horse can lose their footing - cant necessarily blame the arena?!
 
The teenager would need to prove the harm was reasonably forseeable - was the YO aware of the danger and better still, had the type of danger been pointed out to her before the accident happened. ie had there been complaints because the surface was dangerous and were horses slipping in a similar manner causing similar accidents? Also was it common practice not to ride in the arena when it was slippy? Was the teenager riding in a reasonable manner? Did the horse have decent shoes on? Was the horse prone to slipping?

Actually sueing is risky, expensive and stressful and it would be a pity because lots of arenas around the country are expensive but YOs cannot afford to have brand spanking new ones.

Perhaps the more petinent question is whether the teenager is insured and whether her insurers will pursue it.
 

Where there is blame there is a claim eh, seems to be the rule these days.

I don't think its anyone's fault, its just a very unfortunate accident and I hope the young lady is feeling better, yes the arena should be well maintained but at the end of the day if a child/teenager is responsible enough to ride on there own then they should be responsible enough for their own horses safety and where they choose to ride and in what conditions etc, despite knowing if something is dangerous, they should know that for themselves, that's how people learn...through their mistakes.

Too many people want to point the finger, horse riding is a dangerous sport...period, the sooner some people realise it the better, otherwise take up knitting!
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The Yard owner musn't discuss this with anyone on the yard and needs to also contact her insurance company. If there is any chance of being sued - and sadly I think the teenager would win, the YO musn't prejudice her case in anyway.

From experience I know a YO that was sued when a horse with sweetitch cut itself while rubbing on the fencing - they lost and had to pay the vet fees. As a result of this they closed the yard and kicked everyone off.
 
Yard owners have a responsibility to their clients or members of the public entering the site (even if they are trespassing)!

If the yard is being run correctly:

Then the yard owner will have third party public liability insurance etc.

The yard owner will also have a written Health and Safety Policy and also carry out a Health and Safety audit at least once a year (which would include the menage). The audit would highlight any issues with the menage.

The yard owner should also have an accident book and any accidents on the premises written up in it.

If a claim was made against the owner then all the above would be required by both the insurers and lawyers.

Anyone owning or running a yard must keep the paperwork up to date to mitigate any claims.
 
This makes me so sad.
I hate this blame culture. It's why there are no local fun shows or gymkhana's anymore.

This weekend's weather was horrendous. Very strong gale force wind and torrential rain (don't know whereabouts you are, but that's what it was like in herts)

Horses slip on the best of surfaces. There is in fact no such thing as a perfect surface. Was this girl not aware that inclement weather can affect the suitability of riding on different types of surface? Well if she owns her own horse it was her responsibity to know this and her horse's limits.

The YO is not running a creche, and perhaps it was the parents responsibilty to advise her not to ride as the unusual weather conditions meant that the risks were increased?
 
Riding is a risk sport. Hopefully said teenagers mum knows it and will be sensible.

In the case of the yard stirrer, Bring back the stocks and a large box of rotten tomatoes
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The yard owner will also have a written Health and Safety Policy and also carry out a Health and Safety audit at least once a year (which would include the menage). The audit would highlight any issues with the menage.

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I would just like to point out that the Health and Safety At Work Act 1974 is criminal legislation, not civil. Therefore it is up to the Health and Safety Executive to enforce. While the existence of a health and safety policy may be used in evidence in a civil case, the presumption is that the HSAWA74 runs seperately and has no overlap beyond any relevant civil evidential source. Common law issues such as duty of care, breach of duty of care and causation are more important.

I also think its sad. I was on a yard where you were not allowed to open the gate from the school on horseback, or canter within sight of the yard out on a hack. It was awful.
 
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Riding is a risk sport. Hopefully said teenagers mum knows it and will be sensible.

In the case of the yard stirrer, Bring back the stocks and a large box of rotten tomatoes
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Indeed
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.....personally I think mum will be ok, YS will do some stirring and everyone will ignore her.

Its a nice family run yard on a working farm......some people (YS) dont know when they've got a good thing going.
 
Well - running a yard is a business,. And with that you have to accept the risks and the rewards. It must be one of the few remaining businesses where a) the customer is normally considered wrong b) customer care is entirely optional and c) there is no real duty of care to the customer's belongingas (horse etc,)

Can you imagine picking your car up from a garage to find they stuck it out in the rain with the sunroof and windows open - no, you'd expect a duty of care and for them to take responsibility. But that is not the way with livery yards on the whole.

Can you guess I just moved out of a livery yard...
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Firstly, I think the stirrer needs to be thrown off the yard. I'd definately chuck someone out if they tried to get me sued on my own premises!

I don't think they should sue. I think it would be hard to prove what standard an arena surface must be to be "usable". She fell off, it happens. It's ridiculous trying to get money out of someone when it wasn't directly their fault and its not like this girl is going to loose earnings being off work or anything.
 
Crikey we are turning into America aren't we.

10yrs ago nobody would even be considering suing anyone in that situation!

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People always looking for someone else to blame rather than themselves or face their own inadequacies, countries full of wasters, no doubt some leeching solicitor firm will take it on and make money out of it.

Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth, yea no doubt, as the robbing lawyers solicitors estate agents will get all the rest.
 
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My opinion would be as yours - if you know it's crap, then use it taking the surface conditions into account - as you should in any situation, or don't use it all.
I doubt any action would result in surface being redone, more likely yard owner go pretty mucy bankrupt from any legal action and all liveries having to look elsewhere pronto!
Horse riding can be dangerous - live with it or get a hamster! (That advice is to stroppy stirrer, not you by the way!).

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Daddy always used to say "just remember that they can kill you". They are very definitely not cardboard cutouts or hamsters.
Excellent advice - and don't blame anyone else for your shortcomings please.
Far too much litigation going on these days due to half-wits.
 
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