Why are event horses so expensive??

little_flea

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It always seems to me that event horses aimed at amateurs are extremely expensive compared to show jumpers and dressage horses.

For example, an 8 year old Novice mare with 9BE points is advertised for £19.5K. Another one, 7 years old, BE100 - £12,750. Why? Can someone explain to me what this is based on?

Are horses that event at Novice level really that rare? Without wanting to sound derogatory in any way, aside from x-country, all they have to do is jump a 1.10m track and do some dressage at the equivalent of BD Novice level? Of course this takes a reasonably good attitude, but not really any exceptional scope... Or am I completely wrong? Are there just more people in eventing who are willing/able to pay large sums for amateur horses?

Obviously if a horse is super talented they tend to warrant more money if unproven - true for show jumpers and dressage horses as well - but compared to proven show jumpers and dressage horses at a reasonable amateur level that won't ever go to the top, eventers seem SO expensive!

Really interested in your thoughts on this.
 

Lisamd

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The way i see it is that to be successful they have to be more than 'average' at all 3 diciplines - alot more difficult than say a dressage horse that just works on the flat or a jumper who just jumps fences that are set on perfect strides etc.

And all this whilst keeping their brain calm in the dressage - which lets face it many dressage horses if they had the same fitness as an event horse would be a danger to themselves (not meant in a derogatory way before i get hung, draw and quartered!)

I think to get a horse that is strong in all 3 sections is a tough job - therefore requires £££ if you want to buy one that is out and about already :)
 

TGM

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Probably because there are lots of horses who can do one or two of the individual phases well, but rarer to find one that does all three phases really well. A horse may be amazing in the showjumping and cross country, but tense in the dressage. Or great in the dressage and showjumping, but unreliable with water in the cross country phase. Also, because accidents over solid fences have the potential to be more serious than over showjumps, so amateur eventers are happy to pay high prices for a safe conveyance.

However, do bear in mind that the prices horses are advertised at are not always the prices achieved, especially in the current market!
 

little_flea

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Interesting points. Of course they have to be good at three disciplines, but I'm not talking about the big classes here - just horses who do BE100/Novice - they don't really need exceptional amounts of talent for that, do they? But perhaps the safety and reliability aspect is the key - like decent PC/RC horses and ponies often seem expensive for the level they perform at, "athletically" speaking.
 

SpottedCat

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A horse which will safely and competitively take an amateur round a Novice XC track whilst still doing a dressage test in the low 30s and jumping SJ tracks well enough to not put yourself in danger of compulsory retirement are pretty rare I'd say, yes!

You are asking a horse to do a test which scores over 65% at Novice level under a listed judge, which will then be a clean enough jumper to leave up most of the show jumps but bold and brave enough XC not to worry if it hits a fence or the rider gets it wrong. It has to do the dressage test without getting tense with the distraction of the tannoy and XC running alongside and whilst fit enough to gallop for 5 mins at 520mpm with 20+ jumping efforts.

It also has to be safe enough for someone to take Novice XC without being impossible to hold, needing a perfect stride every time to every fence, not minding terribly if the ground is either wet or hard (so it needs to be pretty tough and sound too). It's the being safe XC and not liable to run out or stop which is worth the money IMO.

Also, I'd expect the novice mare you mentioned to have scope for intermediate and probably a bit more too.

ETA: I am sure a lot of the prices reflect the fact that these horses probably haven't hit their limit at Novice. A solid novice horse which will never do a CCI* or an intermediate is worth less than one which is consistently performing at Novice and could easily go intermediate. I wouldn't buy the former, I would buy the latter, and I would expect to pay more for it.
 

kit279

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I think it's about safety. Yes, a 1.10m SJing track is not too demanding - with a good jockey, most horses would jump that height and if they didn't jump high enough, well the poles do knock down. Jumping 1.10m solid fences is a whole different ball game. The horse can't at that level be gutless and that's what the price represents. You're basically paying for the intrinsic boldness of the horse.

I think also that form at Novice is the first indication of whether a horse is likely to go on to be an Intermediate or Advanced horse and therefore priced accordingly. A novice horse that is going clear with a pro but scraping round in a frightened manner wouldn't be as expensive as one pinging round with an inexperienced amateur.
 

SpottedCat

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Also, don't forget that the XC is 1.10 + up to 20cm for brush/hedge - so you can be asking a horse to jump a 1.30 obstacle, plus the SJ is up to 1.15.
 

little_flea

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Yep, I guess the soundness point is a good one as well. So these expensive Novice horses are the really safe school-master types that will take a numpty round a BE Novice safely? I guess if I was a parent buying a horse for my kids, I'd pay extra for one of those if I could!
 

HotToTrot

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Hhhm interesting! I do think that consistent Novice horses are quite rare. A 1.10 XC course can look quite imposing and it's big enough that you want to avoid getting it wrong. You need a horse which will help out and jump safely from a less-than-perfect-stride but not be scared by the experience and therefore refuse the next fence.

It also takes more time to produce an event horse. A pro SJ might have a 4/5YO jumping Newcomers, but the 6YO champs for eventers are run at Novice level. At 5, eventers are expected be at PN level. Maybe a better comparison is to say that a Novice horse is level 3 of 5 (1 being Intro, 5 being advanced). In SJ, let's say level 1 is BN and level 5 is 1.60 classes at county shows. Level 3 in SJ is therefore 1.25. What would you pay for a consistent 1.25 horse?
 

little_flea

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Hhhm interesting! I do think that consistent Novice horses are quite rare. A 1.10 XC course can look quite imposing and it's big enough that you want to avoid getting it wrong. You need a horse which will help out and jump safely from a less-than-perfect-stride but not be scared by the experience and therefore refuse the next fence.

It also takes more time to produce an event horse. A pro SJ might have a 4/5YO jumping Newcomers, but the 6YO champs for eventers are run at Novice level. At 5, eventers are expected be at PN level. Maybe a better comparison is to say that a Novice horse is level 3 of 5 (1 being Intro, 5 being advanced). In SJ, let's say level 1 is BN and level 5 is 1.60 classes at county shows. Level 3 in SJ is therefore 1.25. What would you pay for a consistent 1.25 horse?

Good comparison - and I think that is where I struggle to understand - at the moment, there seems to be loads of really good, experienced and helpful 1.30m horses available for £7-8K, whereas the eventing equivalent are at least twice that. (This certainly wasn't the case a few years ago though, the market for SJ horses really has changed.)
 

spinner1

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Hmm, not sure I agree with the fact that an event horse has to be above average in all 3 phases.. in fact in pure dressage or jumping you can't get away with less than fantastic movement, or lack of care as much whereas an event horse can still be competitve if it has poles. But, there is the sheer economics of it - I think something like 90% of BE competitors are at BE100 or lower so there are fewer people out there with time/resources/experience to produce a horse to novice and so fewer horses available for sale which will always psuh the price up.
 

little_flea

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But, there is the sheer economics of it - I think something like 90% of BE competitors are at BE100 or lower so there are fewer people out there with time/resources/experience to produce a horse to novice and so fewer horses available for sale which will always psuh the price up.

Very interesting point, makes a lot of sense!
 

kit279

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I would also add that when comparing to SJing equivalent, you could look at the price of a young-ish horse jumping 1.20m easily that looks like it would go on to jump Grand Prix tracks. I think by comparison the eventers that are jumping round Novice that looks like they will go Intermediate would be cheaper! The cheapest time to buy an event horse is arguably as a yearling/2 year old whereas a well-bred SJ yearling could easily be 5 figures.
 

MandyMoo

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Hhhm interesting! I do think that consistent Novice horses are quite rare. A 1.10 XC course can look quite imposing and it's big enough that you want to avoid getting it wrong. You need a horse which will help out and jump safely from a less-than-perfect-stride but not be scared by the experience and therefore refuse the next fence.

It also takes more time to produce an event horse. A pro SJ might have a 4/5YO jumping Newcomers, but the 6YO champs for eventers are run at Novice level. At 5, eventers are expected be at PN level. Maybe a better comparison is to say that a Novice horse is level 3 of 5 (1 being Intro, 5 being advanced). In SJ, let's say level 1 is BN and level 5 is 1.60 classes at county shows. Level 3 in SJ is therefore 1.25. What would you pay for a consistent 1.25 horse?

very well said, and a really good comparison to showjumping! :) and after reading your comparison... i disagree that event horses are more expensive than sj-ers. like kit279 says, an equivelant showjumper competing consistantly at foxhunter with scope to go further (and of course, not being an old horse) would be VERY pricey indeed. To be honest, i think high prices come with talent.. in all disciplines.
 
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little_flea

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I would also add that when comparing to SJing equivalent, you could look at the price of a young-ish horse jumping 1.20m easily that looks like it would go on to jump Grand Prix tracks. I think by comparison the eventers that are jumping round Novice that looks like they will go Intermediate would be cheaper! The cheapest time to buy an event horse is arguably as a yearling/2 year old whereas a well-bred SJ yearling could easily be 5 figures.

very well said, and a really good comparison to showjumping! :) and after reading your comparison... i disagree that event horses are more expensive than sj-ers. like kit279 says, an equivelant showjumper competing consistantly at foxhunter with scope to go further (and of course, not being an old horse) would be VERY pricey indeed. To be honest, i think high prices come with talent.. in all disciplines.

But these are exactly not my points - not talking about the top level horses with scope to do the very biggest classes, but horses proven at Novice, and the comparison being show jumping horses who have results and winnings at 1.30m level but are unlikely to go on to bigger classes - horses for amateurs, not pro's.

Obviously a talented show jumping youngster can cost any amount of money!
 

little_flea

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very well said, and a really good comparison to showjumping! :) and after reading your comparison... i disagree that event horses are more expensive than sj-ers. like kit279 says, an equivelant showjumper competing consistantly at foxhunter with scope to go further (and of course, not being an old horse) would be VERY pricey indeed. To be honest, i think high prices come with talent.. in all disciplines.

There are plenty of Grade A & B's with results at around 1.30m level who are not at all very pricey. But if you are talking about horses that will go on to jump 1.60m classes internationally, then of course they would be. But these are surely not the equivalent of horses that are 9-10yrs old with 10BE points doing Novice eventing with amateurs!
 

MandyMoo

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There are plenty of Grade A & B's with results at around 1.30m level who are not at all very pricey. But if you are talking about horses that will go on to jump 1.60m classes internationally, then of course they would be. But these are surely not the equivalent of horses that are 9-10yrs old with 10BE points doing Novice eventing with amateurs!

yes, but these grade A/B horses jumping the 1m30's that are not as pricey at 7-8k, tend to be older horses in their teens, and hence cheaper than say a younger horse doing BE Novice (but this is just the sj-ers iv seen advertised, maybe we've seen different ones?! :D). I was talking about those showjumpers that are the same age as the BENovice horses, say 10years old... and THEN a showjumper at 10years old jumping 1m20/1m30 (equivelant to BENovice, by hottotrot's comparison) would be about 12-15k - sometimes more, if it is a particularly forgiving/easy horse - a similar price to the BENovice horse you originally mentioned :)
 

christine48

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We are going to advertise ours soon so it will be interesting to see what the market is like. However taking all into consideration, he's an attractive horse, moves well, got BD and BE points and only 6yrs old we're not going to give him away. Genuine quality uncompicated horses with no hang ups, esp if they are suitable for teenagers etc do fetch more money even if they aren't going to be a mega super star.
Event horses with the ability to go advanced etc will be a lot more money.
 

Rosiefan

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I think the point about teenagers is significant. Lots of youngsters want to do JRNs and get to the Champs and also do PC eventing at Open and if the parents can afford it they will buy a proven Novice level horse. Rosie got to both sets of champs with her spotty horse (he had few points because you didn't get points at JRN back then but he had a brilliant record) and he was advertised and sold for £25k. She sold him because she didn't think he would be successful at Intermediate as he was too careful XC. This is nearly 3 years ago though.
 

brushingboots

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because people are looking for the consistency in records now afaics. Saying that a friend bought a horse for dressage for around 100k and hadn't done anything...just on its breeding but has prooved to be a fantastic horse
 

HotToTrot

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I think there is also an element of "I can do better" too. So if you have one that has a reasonable record but perhaps does a shoddy DR or gets time faults (anything other than stopping, basically!) then it will still generate interest and command a high price, as it has proven that its ability is there or thereabouts.
 
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